USPS out to kill hobby shipping

Still way cheaper than DHL, UPS, FEDEX for international.
Maybe its fuel prices that are driving it.

Possibly an angle would be connecting with store chains to have people pick up items at the stores? Look at how much they spend on coupons to get people in the doors, maybe you'll get a break.
I buy from many places here, I can pick up my order at the store and pay zero shipping. I also drop boxes off so why not more local-point as opposed to door-to-door distro? Why, in some places it would mean more (yes, minimum wage) JOBS!!!

How's that pickup work for international deliveries? I already have to drop the package off with a postal employee, who scans the preprinted label and drops it in the bin behind him. I can't leave it in my mailbox to be picked up. It has to be handed over.
Clears customs, and then what? Probably goes to international version of our post office (you're in the US?) for however its delivered there.

I guess small business international shipping market is too small and there is no forum to speak to other small businesses sharing the same concerns. Don't know how this postage spike helps these businesses but yeah mail coupons and credit card invitations seem to pour in my mail box just as before. I wonder how much big businesses pay for one letter. Must be a deep discount for them at the extra cost of individuals and small businesses. Those are truly junk mails. No use, no purpose, jamming my box. I have not accepted any single credit card offer even if I receive multiple a week, for at least the past decade or so, that's at least 1,000 mails wasted. I also had to rip them apart since every single one has my address printed on the application.

CrossRoads:
How's that pickup work for international deliveries?

That would have to be worked out between vendor and marketer. Perhaps if a group of makers made the approach with a catalog and sales history? You wouldn't be asking them to advertise (cists money) or even display (uses shelf space). Just to distribute which brings customers into stores.

What I see might be an opportunity given store chains that already have their own delivery systems and you might have end-customers that can reach the stores easily enough or pay more for shipping, always an option!

But beyond that? Does Europe have big country to country retailers? How about in the Mideast or South America?

Will the stores allow what? Or the governments?

I don't know, sounds like more than I can tackle by myself.

liudr:
I guess small business international shipping market is too small and there is no forum to speak to other small businesses sharing the same concerns. Don't know how this postage spike helps these businesses but yeah mail coupons and credit card invitations seem to pour in my mail box just as before. I wonder how much big businesses pay for one letter. Must be a deep discount for them at the extra cost of individuals and small businesses. Those are truly junk mails. No use, no purpose, jamming my box. I have not accepted any single credit card offer even if I receive multiple a week, for at least the past decade or so, that's at least 1,000 mails wasted. I also had to rip them apart since every single one has my address printed on the application.

They used to be nice for starting fires. Now the crappy paper/ink they use makes them useless even for that. I have to use newsprint to start a fire to burn junkmail. FFS.

Mean while the tons of Asian electronic parts and module sellers on E-bay can still offer free air shipment on their very low cost items, delivered by my local post office. Just doesn't make sense.

Lefty

Doesn't surprise me one bit.

For example, their governments may have made a conscious decision to subsidize exports. Remember, delivery costs are negotiated from Postal org to postal org so opportunities for subsidies thus exist.

Most of these free shipping packages come out of Hongkong and Singapore possibly both free ports with low shipping cost. The Chinese government for one, doesn't give a damn to small businesses so maybe for large businesses where they can squeeze out money.

International shipping rates:

Weight (ounces) 	Weight (Lb)	1 Canada 	2 Mexico 	3-5	4-6
1	0.06	 $6.55 	 $6.55 	 $6.55 	 $6.55 
2	0.13	 $6.55 	 $6.55 	 $6.55 	 $6.55 
3	0.19	 $7.35 	 $8.85 	 $9.45 	 $9.15 
4	0.25	 $7.35 	 $8.85 	 $9.45 	 $9.15 
5	0.31	 $8.55 	 $11.55 	 $12.75 	 $12.15 
6	0.38	 $8.55 	 $11.55 	 $12.75 	 $12.15 
7	0.44	 $8.55 	 $11.55 	 $12.75 	 $12.15 
8	0.50	 $8.55 	 $11.55 	 $12.75 	 $12.15 
12	0.75	 $9.15 	 $13.50 	 $14.90 	 $14.30 
16	1.00	 $10.55 	 $15.05 	 $16.75 	 $16.25 
20	1.25	 $11.95 	 $16.60 	 $18.60 	 $18.20 
24	1.50	 $13.35 	 $18.15 	 $20.45 	 $20.15 
28	1.75	 $14.75 	 $19.70 	 $22.30 	 $22.10 
32	2.00	 $16.15 	 $21.25 	 $24.15 	 $24.05 
36	2.25	 $17.55 	 $22.80 	 $26.00 	 $26.00 
40	2.50	 $18.95 	 $24.35 	 $27.85 	 $27.95 
44	2.75	 $20.35 	 $25.90 	 $29.70 	 $29.90 
48	3.00	 $21.75 	 $27.45 	 $31.55 	 $31.85 
52	3.25	 $23.15 	 $29.00 	 $33.40 	 $33.80 
56	3.50	 $24.55 	 $30.55 	 $35.25 	 $35.75 
60	3.75	 $25.95 	 $32.10 	 $37.10 	 $37.70 
64	4.00	 $27.35 	 $33.65 	 $38.95 	 $39.65

I just charge my International buyers (Canada, Mexico, Asia, Europe) a flat $25 for anything that will inside a small flat rate box, and $60 for anything bigger/bulkier (shipped via usps priority mail).

I don't ship out anything on cheap International First Class mail.... ever. If the $490 shipment gets lost, I have to reship it again or refund the customer their purchase price. Either way, I'm out of luck and lost $490 out of pocket... all because I'm trying to save him a few dollars in shipping fees. So I say f*ck it... $60 shipping for your $490 purchase.

I also don't do "combined" shipping for International customers. If they buy (2) units, and each unit/set costs $60 to ship, I charge them $120... and they get (2) packages delivered to them separately. (lessens my chance that both packages will get lost)

I have a current customer that paid $300 on shipping fees alone.... but he ordered $3K worth of stuff. He'll get (5) separate boxes shipped to him.

For important parts it's well worth the extra. I guess you don't sell toys? :grin:

My packages are pretty much $30-$50 values only so I can't afford to ship other than first class. If it gets lost, well I lose money. The USPS high price on shipping and insurance only available on express international make doing business to the world a very difficult thing.

vasquo:
I just charge my International buyers (Canada, Mexico, Asia, Europe) a flat $25 for anything that will inside a small flat rate box, and $60 for anything bigger/bulkier (shipped via usps priority mail).

I don't ship out anything on cheap International First Class mail.... ever. If the $490 shipment gets lost, I have to reship it again or refund the customer their purchase price. Either way, I'm out of luck and lost $490 out of pocket... all because I'm trying to save him a few dollars in shipping fees. So I say f*ck it... $60 shipping for your $490 purchase.

I also don't do "combined" shipping for International customers. If they buy (2) units, and each unit/set costs $60 to ship, I charge them $120... and they get (2) packages delivered to them separately. (lessens my chance that both packages will get lost)

I have a current customer that paid $300 on shipping fees alone.... but he ordered $3K worth of stuff. He'll get (5) separate boxes shipped to him.

That's great if your customers are willing to pay it, of course. Not every business has that situation. In fact, I would say it is pretty rare.

Think this guy can charge $30 per package for shipping? Or pays anything close to USPS rates?

Foreign delivery, all in, $4.50. And I've seen even cheaper.

USPS wanted $9 to ship some incorrect BCD switches that I received back to Taiwan. It was probably about the same weight as this package, about 3 ounces in all including mailer and some bubble wrap. No question they are getting a far better deal over there. And it's the same product, same amount of labor involved in a Taiwan to US vs a US to Taiwan international shipment. It's not like U.S. manufacturing vs. overseas manufacturing, shipments utilize labor in both countries and in the same amount. So USPS pricing does not make sense and puts US vendors at a disadvantage and I agree with Crossroads assessment of the situation.

There are now more ebay sellers in the USA offering free shipping on these cheap stuff since they buy them from manufacturers and ship huge quantity cheap and then sell them in the USA. On the other hand, we micro-businesses can't get any discounts. Any solution?

liudr:
There are now more ebay sellers in the USA offering free shipping on these cheap stuff since they buy them from manufacturers and ship huge quantity cheap and then sell them in the USA. On the other hand, we micro-businesses can't get any discounts. Any solution?

I wonder if they would accept some kind of bulk order similar to how OSHPark does their circuitboard orders. We all use the same account to get shipping quotes.

So USPS pricing does not make sense

Tell that to their pensioners, and healthcare provider. It's their healthcare and pension costs that is out of control and that's why USPS is in the deep hellhole it is right now.

And their only solution to their out-of-control costs problem is to try increasing revenue by raising rates for all of us.


Now, as to competing with HK and Chinese sellers.... you can't. Forget about it. You'll always lose.
They can get their parts, labor costs and shipping costs cheap cheap cheap!!!... even if you buy your parts in bulk.
The only way you can compete is by designing and producing innovative products that they CANNOT copy... well, at least legally.... i.e. don't give them permission to copy it.

In other words, OPEN SOURCE HARDWARE is a big freaking welcome gate and permission slip for Chinese and HK business to copy copy copy everything, produce it, and sell it far cheaper than you can ever imagine/produce by yourself here in the US.

So here you are, designing hardware and writing software and releasing it as open source hardware, and they'll be the ones benefiting and reaping the rewards... not you. They'll be the ones making the sale, not you.... and you can't do anything about it since well, you said it was open source.

liudr:
I also had to rip them apart since every single one has my address printed on the application.

vasquo:

So USPS pricing does not make sense

Tell that to their pensioners, and healthcare provider. It's their healthcare and pension costs that is out of control and that's why USPS is in the deep hellhole it is right now.

And their only solution to their out-of-control costs problem is to try increasing revenue by raising rates for all of us.

There has already been one post in this thread explaining how USPS has to pay 2x more into those funds than other federal agencies because they've been marked for extinction.

But the real big evidence that they are not leeches on society is the comparison between USPS and private agencies that charge much much more.

We have out-of-control costs because resources have getting shorter for over 40 years and a small segment of the population takes an ever-increasing amount to themselves. The numbers you see are a direct result of that and the inflation used to keep it going. Instead of everyone slowing down a little, a few have rocketed up higher than ever in history while the majority have lost out more every year, and still you get guys whose idea of economy fits that of the US in 1770 or Old Testament times.

The US budget info has been published since 1910. The numbers are there. Every time we have a war the debt has jacked up significantly. Every time the War-Borrowing Spree has ended it's only a while before the poor get blamed for higher prices and then we have -another- war. Look at the data, look at the years, look at the price indexes and if you can still say war is good for the economy or that war has not been the major driver of national debt then you shouldn't do math beyond checking your change at the counter.