Arduino Forum

Community => Website and Forum => Topic started by: Palliser on Feb 17, 2013, 03:32 pm

Title: Forum Website Down
Post by: Palliser on Feb 17, 2013, 03:32 pm
Hello, I just want to notify that I did lost access to the Arduino forum website since yesterday for about 12 hrs. Regards. It is back know! Thank you!
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: SurferTim on Feb 17, 2013, 03:37 pm
Just a warning. If you are having trouble logging in, then you might want to try deleting your cookies. I couldn't log in this morning until I did that with Chrome. Hey, at least I wasn't banned!  :)
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: MadBob on Feb 17, 2013, 03:41 pm

Hello, I just want to notify that I did lost access to the Arduino forum website since yesterday for about 12 hrs. Regards. It is back know! Thank you!


We had massive outage on the main server tonight, the whole machine rebooted at least two times for still unclear reasons.
Now it seems back to normal operational status, please report eventual other issues you find to webmaster@arduino.cc .
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: Erni on Feb 17, 2013, 04:15 pm
There is a problem with the search function, I get this:

An Error Has Occurred!
Unable to access the search deamon.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: modeller on Feb 17, 2013, 04:19 pm

There is a problem with the search function, I get this:

An Error Has Occurred!
Unable to access the search deamon.


Confirmed.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: Jantje on Feb 17, 2013, 04:33 pm


There is a problem with the search function, I get this:

An Error Has Occurred!
Unable to access the search deamon.


Confirmed.

Confirmed even more ;-)
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: 3dprinter on Feb 17, 2013, 06:34 pm

Hello, I just want to notify that I did lost access to the Arduino forum website since yesterday for about 12 hrs. Regards. It is back know! Thank you!
Yes, defenitly....Even the main page was down, with messages about corrupted tables.

Still, entering the information here is :) and  :D and  ]:D

Sort of like: "If you have trouble accessing the internet, check status on our Webpage"
or
"If your mail is not working, please send information to Support@mailsite.com" ....

(edit:Fixed 3 typos)
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: rockwallaby on Feb 17, 2013, 08:44 pm
Thought the world was coming to an end, meteorites crashing , asteroids fly-bys and all of arduino land crashing the world over.
Relieved to know the human race has yet again survived, though I am humbly reminded by how lost we can be without the things we take for granted.

Must have been some difficult and anxious hours for the sever maintainer person or people.
Many thanks,
Paul.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: arduinohabib on Feb 18, 2013, 04:52 am
Same. But now there's a lot of ads on the site. Are these ads intentional?
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: arduinohabib on Feb 18, 2013, 05:12 am
Oops...Sorry, the ads were from a silly extension.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: retrolefty on Feb 18, 2013, 05:36 am
Yea the site was down for me too. But then I re-burned the bootloader on my Nano and then when I checked the site it was OK, so that appeared to fix it. Sorry it took me so long, I had no idea you were all waiting for me to finish.  ;)

Lefty

Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: PaulS on Feb 18, 2013, 11:46 am
Quote
Sorry it took me so long, I had no idea you were all waiting for me to finish.

Could you let us know, in advance, before you do that again?
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: rockwallaby on Feb 20, 2013, 12:48 am
retro, I guess you just had to re-burn that boot-loader again hu?
It must suck all the arduino electrons in the world to do it, just everything stops.

Try not to do it again ok  ]:D
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: retrolefty on Feb 20, 2013, 12:58 am

retro, I guess you just had to re-burn that boot-loader again hu?
It must suck all the arduino electrons in the world to do it, just everything stops.

Try not to do it again ok  ]:D


Sorry once you burn one bootloader it's hard to stop. And then an hour later I feel the need again.  ;)

Lefty
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: rockwallaby on Feb 20, 2013, 10:45 am
And we're back again, yipee  :D
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: MadBob on Feb 20, 2013, 12:17 pm
The problem seems to be more extended than previously expected: an hardware issue on our server produces random spikes and kernel panic which force brutal shutdowns of the system, causing - other than temporary unavailability of our web services - damages on database tables abruptly closed.
We are schedulating a massive migration for tomorrow, that will resolve in a long downtime. More news soon on the Arduino blog (http://blog.arduino.cc/).
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: arduinohabib on Feb 20, 2013, 12:56 pm
Say, the site was down again. Lefty, you forgot to burn the bootloader on your nano on time.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: rockwallaby on Feb 20, 2013, 01:50 pm
Maybe Lefty was burning a Mega this time.

No problems madbob, hope you're not pulling your hair out.
I noticed from the responses that there might have been a sql'ish problem as well.

Appreciate the work you do to keep the gears turning.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: arduinohabib on Feb 20, 2013, 02:49 pm
Yeah I really appreciate what you have done for us. Thanks.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: Palliser on Feb 20, 2013, 03:18 pm
Hello madbob,
Please, let us know if there is something we can do/help. I understand maintenance meas resources, money. Sometimes a donation pot helps.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: modeller on Feb 20, 2013, 03:41 pm

We are schedulating a massive migration for tomorrow, that will resolve in a long downtime. More news soon on the Arduino blog (http://blog.arduino.cc/).



I hope the maintenance goes well.

I hope you will also seriously consider updating the SMF version to 2.0.4 while you have a good chance. 1.1.18 is years out of date.

Reference threads -

http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/topic,148835.0.html

http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/topic,149441.0.html
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: floresta on Feb 21, 2013, 04:13 am
Quote
Maintainance Downtime Scheduled for Thursday, 21 Feb - read here for more details

Is it just me or does anyone else also think that bold black with an underlined link would have been a better color option for the announcement?  It's at the top of the page if you missed it.

Don
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: rockwallaby on Feb 21, 2013, 04:15 am
yes, I must be a bit colour blind.
I need to squint and look sideways.

I looks important though, whatever it says  ]:)
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: rockwallaby on Feb 21, 2013, 06:16 am
Roberto, I just realised that 'maintainance' is spelled 'maintenance'

I wonder how many times I have misspelled it in the past then.

When are we going down, any clue for a UTC?
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: 3dprinter on Feb 21, 2013, 10:55 am
Thursday 21st of February, around 3 p.m. CET until Friday 22nd of February 2013 same time
- CET is UTC+1 for today.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: rockwallaby on Feb 21, 2013, 10:58 am
So about four hours from now then I am guessing?
It's 21h here, yay, in four hours I might be asleep, chuckle chuckle, oops, forgot about the my morning fix of Arduino  :smiley-eek-blue:

Say, Msquare, are you helping out with the upgrade?

Also, I notice that in my profile setting where I can set the time zone offset, it always wants to guess and does not want to keep the value I give it.
Especially as we have daylight saving time, it is out by one hour. I hope if you are going to version 2.x of SMF it will be fixed.

Paul
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: 3dprinter on Feb 21, 2013, 11:01 am
Nope. I am not even a moderator.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: rockwallaby on Feb 21, 2013, 11:04 am
Bugger, sounds like you have experience with SMF forums.
Re-check my post above re time, is that a known problem?

oops, my mistake, I am confusing you with modeller, similar avatar colours, sorry, I must be blind  :smiley-mr-green:
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: modeller on Feb 21, 2013, 02:51 pm

Also, I notice that in my profile setting where I can set the time zone offset, it always wants to guess and does not want to keep the value I give it.
Especially as we have daylight saving time, it is out by one hour. I hope if you are going to version 2.x of SMF it will be fixed.


Yes, I have a great deal of experience with SMF forums. The time offset seems to be working for me. I don't think that is an issue with SMF 1.1.18. But, there is another problem that the Admins haven't yet commented on - the irritating messages that you get when going back to your search results. On a forum like this, that really needs to get fixed. If people can't easily read all the results of a search, they'll simply just add more posts, of which there are enough already. Support for this version will be ending this year - support such as security updates.

If they are going down for a long maintenance task it would be the perfect time to upgrade the forum to SMF 2.0.4 - get it over with. It's free and shouldn't take all that long. I can't imagine why they wouldn't do it.

If they have any questions I'd be glad to answer them.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: Riva on Feb 22, 2013, 03:12 pm
Well done on getting back up within the allotted time.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: 3dprinter on Feb 22, 2013, 03:25 pm

it would be the perfect time to upgrade the forum to SMF 2.0.4 - get it over with. It's free and shouldn't take all that long. I can't imagine why they wouldn't do it.
Whatever it is - it never is "just" or "only" - there is always something that bites back. Which means you need to have a fallback plan.

I can see that they didnt "throw in an upgrade" during this cleanup/stabilasation exercise. That is a sign of mature handling of running a service.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: modeller on Feb 22, 2013, 03:39 pm
Whatever it is - it never is "just" or "only" - there is always something that bites back. Which means you need to have a fallback plan.


Yes, so create a fallback plan ...

Quote

I can see that they didnt "throw in an upgrade" during this cleanup/stabilasation exercise. That is a sign of mature handling of running a service.


Who would want to "throw in" an upgrade? It's not that difficult - I know I've done it before. If they aren't going to upgrade then can we please get them to fix the "document expired" messages when going back to search results?
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: arduinohabib on Feb 22, 2013, 05:17 pm
Woohoo! Site's back! Great job dev. team! Thank you so much!
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: marcello.romani on Feb 25, 2013, 12:46 am
The forum looks faster from here (Italy).
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: rockwallaby on Mar 04, 2013, 11:50 pm
The forum seems painfully slow for me this morning.
Anybody else noticing this?

I could go and make a cup of coffee while I waited for the server to deliver the page.

It seems variable, so maybe the server is loaded down with many 'noobies'    :P
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: graynomad on Mar 05, 2013, 01:33 am
OK for me, but then I'm about 2000k closer to the server :)

______
Rob
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: Palliser on Mar 05, 2013, 04:09 am
Today, it happened to me twice in a network with a T-carrier third level. I am talking about around a minute to refresh the page (http://arduino.cc/forum/). I live in Texas.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: 3dprinter on Mar 05, 2013, 04:13 am
For me at 1900 CET it was painfully slow - I even got timeouts on the browser. Now, at 0400 it is lightning fast. (I did not use it in the intervening time)
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: rockwallaby on Mar 05, 2013, 04:15 am
It started to improve after my cup of coffee this morning.
Yes, now, all is back to normal.

Maybe it was Lefty burning a special modded bootloader again  :P

@Msquare, you're a late night programmer, it must be just after 04h00 for you there!
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: modeller on Mar 05, 2013, 04:17 am
I got a really weird error message a couple of hours ago. I should have recorded it.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: rockwallaby on Mar 05, 2013, 04:22 am
A 503 error is what I got.
I did copy it to the clipboard to paste here, but I got distracted and overwrote the clipboard while doing something else.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: modeller on Mar 05, 2013, 04:24 am

A 503 error is what I got.
I did copy it to the clipboard to paste here, but I got distracted and overwrote the clipboard while doing something else.


Yea, that's what it was. I've never seen that error in all the years I've been surfing.  :smiley-slim:
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: graynomad on Mar 05, 2013, 04:25 am
Quote
I live in Texas.

We all have our problems, in my case it's a really bad case of the cl...well you don't need to know that.

So you live in Texas, have Venezuela as your location and an avatar for the London Hack space. You get around :)

_____
Rob
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: 3dprinter on Mar 05, 2013, 04:36 am

@Msquare, you're a late night programmer, it must be just after 04h00 for you there!
No, an early riser :)

I am impressed. How did you work out at 04h00 ?

...Now, at 0400 ...
:)
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: SurferTim on Mar 05, 2013, 01:26 pm

I got a really weird error message a couple of hours ago. I should have recorded it.

Was it a 503 error with a "Guru Meditation" and a message about "revarnish server"?
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: modeller on Mar 05, 2013, 02:03 pm


I got a really weird error message a couple of hours ago. I should have recorded it.

Was it a 503 error with a "Guru Meditation" and a message about "revarnish server"?



Yep.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: SurferTim on Mar 05, 2013, 02:13 pm
You can search for "Guru Meditation" on the forum to see all the posts about it. Like these:
http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/topic,136823.0.html
http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/topic,142837.0.html

If you want a varnish that will last a while, I recommend Captain's Varnish by Z-Spar.  :D
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: modeller on Mar 05, 2013, 02:24 pm

You can search for "Guru Meditation" on the forum to see all the posts about it.


and you can search for why I don't use the search here -  :)

http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/topic,148835.0.html
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: SurferTim on Mar 05, 2013, 02:29 pm
Maybe you need to "varnish" your web browser cache?  :)

I was locked out of the forum not long ago with a "banned from using this forum" message, and deleting the browser cache and cookies corrected that.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: modeller on Mar 05, 2013, 02:45 pm

Maybe you need to "varnish" your web browser cache?  :)

I was locked out of the forum not long ago with a "banned from using this forum" message, and deleting the browser cache and cookies corrected that.



Oh I know how to fix the search problem. It's just that I don't have the permissions to do so. :)
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: SurferTim on Mar 05, 2013, 02:48 pm
Quote
Oh I know how to fix the search problem. It's just that I don't have the permissions to do so.

If that is all, then I give you permission. It IS your web browser and computer, isn't it?
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: modeller on Mar 05, 2013, 02:52 pm

If that is all, then I give you permission. It IS your web browser and computer, isn't it?


No, I'm talking about permission on the server, to fix the document expired problem at the source.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: SurferTim on Mar 05, 2013, 02:58 pm
I don't understand. My forum search works fine, except when I use the "back" button after selecting one of the search results. I get a "Confirm Form Resubmission", at which point I click "reload". That is right next to my back button.

Is that what you want fixed on your other thread?
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: modeller on Mar 05, 2013, 03:05 pm

I don't understand. My forum search works fine, except when I use the "back" button after selecting one of the search results. I get a "Confirm Form Resubmission", at which point I click "reload". That is right next to my back button.

Is that what you want fixed on your other thread?



That's the problem Tim. No other forum I go to has that issue, and it shouldn't be happening here. I have an SMF forum myself and it doesn't happen there. I just did a search there and went back and forth between the search results and the links and it work just fine.

It's a very aggravating problem if a person wants to look at many search results. It's going to cause people to stop using the search here and just post their question even if it's been answered. That's just human nature. If there's one thing this forum doesn't need is more questions that have already been answered. This is one of the busiest forums I've been to and that means it's a top priority for the search results to be easy to use.

Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: SurferTim on Mar 05, 2013, 03:10 pm
Now I understand. I adapt quickly, so I am used to the reload button. That would be a good fix.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: modeller on Mar 05, 2013, 03:16 pm

Now I understand. I adapt quickly, so I am used to the reload button. That would be a good fix.


Thanks. I can't understand why the Admins won't even acknowledge the problem. It just ridiculous to have to go back through two dialog boxes to get back to your search results every time. If there's 10 pages of results to go through until you find the specific information you need, it's going to be very frustrating. I don't need to ask a lot of questions if there's a good library of questions that have already been answered, I can do the research myself. But, with the document expired issue it's way too time consuming.

If they don't think it will frustrate users needing information, they need to think again. The best solution is to just fix it. I have very knowledgeable contacts at the SMF support forum and I'd be glad to work with them to help get a resolution.

But the first step is to realize the problem exists.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: Jantje on Mar 07, 2013, 05:58 pm
In a search I always right click and select open in new tab on the search results I think are interesting. That avoids having to reload the page when I need to go back and the pages are loaded while I'm still reading the results. That saves me some time.
You could consider this as a workaround.
Best regards
Jantje
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: graynomad on Mar 08, 2013, 12:57 am
Quote
In a search I always right click and select open in new tab on the search results I think are interesting.

I do the same, not just in this forum but everywhere. Except I click the mouse wheel, same result.

______
Rob
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: modeller on Mar 08, 2013, 01:14 am
Why not just fix it?
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: rockwallaby on Mar 08, 2013, 04:05 am
Kind peoples at admin, please fix it for moddeller, he'll go crazy with a bunch of others if you don't, I'm sure  :P

Me, just like Jan and Rob, I do everything right click new tab where ever I am, so I haven't had the pain of it all.
Sure, I end up with a few tabs, 30 or 40, sometimes by two windows in two different viewports, because I can in linux or OSX (chuckle), but heck, it's easier and quicker, no re-loading pages. I've tried to letting people know this for years, when I see how cumbersome they clunk their way back and forward on the same tab.

But for the love of sanity, can you let moddeller know or even let him do it.

_____
Paul
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: modeller on Mar 08, 2013, 02:48 pm

Sure, I end up with a few tabs, 30 or 40, sometimes by two windows in two different viewports, because I can in linux or OSX (chuckle), but heck, it's easier and quicker, no re-loading pages.


No, it's not quicker.

You know, it's really funny. It's really odd. It's really quiet. This place practically screams "We can solve problems! Tell us your problem and we'll find a solution!" Five or ten people sometimes jump on solving the problem at hand. They can't resist solving problems here, and that's really good. It's really impressive, until this problem came up.

Why, when it comes to this problem, is there silence from the problem solvers, the Administration? What's different about it? Why are they so averse at working on a solution to the problem, not avoiding it or working around it? Maybe they are embarrassed and don't want to admit the problem exists? I can only speculate on the reason if they don't chime in. They haven't even acknowledged it. They haven't even said "We don't know how to fix it." Anyone want to guess why? Is it the color of my avatar? Maybe they don't like members with locomotive avatars that report problems.

I just think it's very strange, especially when I posted this topic in the proper place out of goodwill, notifying them of the problem, and what happens? Crickets chirping from the Admins. It's really not a good policy to ignore problem reports and offers of goodwill from members who want the forum to run like it should. I know, they are they types that "shoot the messenger". That's gotta be it.

I dunno, I just think it's weird.

P.S. The forum is running a version of SMF that is on the fast track to being unsupported, as I've also said. But that's another thread ...
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: graynomad on Mar 08, 2013, 03:00 pm
It's not that strange, I don't think I've ever seen a single issue of this nature addressed, or even acknowledged, by the powers that be.

In fact the only time I've seen them post on this forum was around the time of the Due release.

I know of people (myself included) who have directly PMd and emailed the team with no response.

There may be good reason, maybe they get 1000 emails a day and just can't answer them all. Either way you better get used to it :)

There is a bug-reporting mechanism, I don't know anything about it though.

______
Rob
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: modeller on Mar 08, 2013, 03:24 pm

It's not that strange, I don't think I've ever seen a single issue of this nature addressed, or even acknowledged, by the powers that be.

In fact the only time I've seen them post on this forum was around the time of the Due release.

I know of people (myself included) who have directly PMd and emailed the team with no response.

There may be good reason, maybe they get 1000 emails a day and just can't answer them all. Either way you better get used to it :)


Thanks for the reply Graynomad, I appreciate it.

If what you say is true, they need more people who are empowered to fix things on the forum. I know the structure of SMF very, very well. They could add more Admins, or even Global moderators with more permissions. If there isn't a moderator assigned to this board, they could do that. The Moderator would acknowledge the problem and elevate it t the appropriate official, and report back.

A forum this big needs a lot of moderators. In fact, I just looked at the boards and none of them show that any moderators have been assigned to them. Shoot, a forum this big, which covers so may time zones? It should have 5 to 7 moderators per board , not because that many are needed at once, but because the board is so active worldwide 24/7 - the members who are mods should reside in several world wide time zones. It deserves that many. Each board would have these mods and that way all the members know specifically who to report problems to.

I just sorted the memberlist and Admin should have come up at the top, but it looks like they have renamed the membergroups, i.e. Edison, Faraday ... who knows who is really an administrator? Who is in charge. Very odd way to do things!

It ain't rocket science. There will be no problem getting volunteers to do these jobs. They will have more volunteers than they can shake a stick at.

Quote

There is a bug-reporting mechanism, I don't know anything about it though.


OK, I'll try and PM an Admin to verify that they don't care about these types of reports, and I'll post what happens here.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: Jantje on Mar 08, 2013, 06:17 pm

Quote

There is a bug-reporting mechanism, I don't know anything about it though.


OK, I'll try and PM an Admin to verify that they don't care about these types of reports, and I'll post what happens here.

Good luck.
May the force be with you
Jantje
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: modeller on Mar 09, 2013, 02:39 pm

Good luck.
May the force be with you
Jantje


PM sent to the recipients shown below. At first I tried to send it to all six Admins, but I got this message:

You may not send personal messages to more than 3 recipient(s) at once.

That's ridiculous, for a site this large, to be only able to send a PM to just three people! THREE?

Good Grief.  :~

*****

Forum Error Messages Involving Searches

The courtesy of an official response in-thread is requested regarding the documented problem in the thread linked below.

Thank you very much for your attention,

Modeller

"Document Expired" Messages When Going Back to Search Results (http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/topic,148835.0.html)

cc:
Massimo Banzi
David Cuartielles
mellis
Davide
cmaglie
madbob

Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: modeller on Mar 10, 2013, 02:36 pm

It's not that strange, I don't think I've ever seen a single issue of this nature addressed, or even acknowledged, by the powers that be.
______
Rob


Looks like you were right Rob. Not a single Admin responded to my PM, or commented on my post about the document expired error. I guess they just don't give a damn about members reporting problems. But it's funny, if you look down the lists of posts on this board you can see they lock threads and move them, so they must be reading the board. Hmmm ...

But that isn't going to stop me from commenting on problems I see with this forum.  :)

And now for my short treatise on SMF's moderating system, for those that are interested.

There are 8 Global moderators on this forum, and no board moderators (if there were, they'd be listed on each board)

Four of the Globals are very active -

Name - Position - Date Registered - Posts

AWOL             Global Moderator    2009-02-25    17733
Coding Badly      Global Moderator    2009-04-15    9497
CrossRoads    Global Moderator    2010-08-21    15175    
Nick Gammon    Global Moderator    2010-12-31    12905

Four of them are not active at all. Taking into account the length of time they've been registered, it seems they have lost interest in moderating -

michael shiloh       Global Moderator    2009-03-24    37
Federico Vanzati    Global Moderator    2009-03-26    1077
Yot             Global Moderator    2009-10-05    287
UweFederer       Global Moderator    2011-03-27    4

So for all practical purposes, there are only four Global Moderators, and no board moderators, for a forum of this size -

1136364 Posts in 139356 Topics by 128500 Members.

SMF has a heirarchy set up that, when used, makes the life of everybody a lot easier.

We have these top ranks -

Administrators
Global Moderators
Board Moderators


It should be used like a police force. You have the Chief(s) of police (Admins), the captains (Globals), and the cops on the beat (board Mods). In this case the forum owner would be the Mayor. The police chief(s) (Admins) should never be doing the work of moderating. All they do is manage the police force and hire and fire other mods and twiddle with the forum settings. They also work with the Mayor (forum owner).

The Global Mods manage the board moderators and determine what actions to take when serious violations of forum policy happen. They can, if given the permissions, edit members profiles and do some other things to enforce the rules, ban members, and so on. In a pinch they can do the menial work of moving and splitting threads, but that's not their primary job function.

The board Mods are the cops on the beat. They do most of the work of moderating. They make sure that the posts for each board are on-topic and manage each board. They split threads, move threads, respoond to Report to Moderator actions, get involved in threads when they veer off-topic, and so on.

If you have a very small forum, it's OK to use Global Mods to police the entire forum, because it's not efficient to assign members to each board if your membership is very small. In fact if it's very small the Admin will do the same thing. That's just the way it goes.

But for a large forum (and this one is huge) you need to set up the moderating system the proper way. You should have board moderators on each board to handle all the little things that happen inside each micro-community (each major board). Another thing to consider is the global activity of the forum. If it's truly a world-wide audience, you need moderators awake spanning all the global time zones.

IMHO, this forum is way too big, WAY to big, to be policed primarily by a few Global Moderators, and as I said Administrators are not supposed to be moderators. My guess is that it just evolved that way from years ago. But looking at it now, it needs to have it's moderating hierarchy gutted and set up the way SMF is meant to be set up. It's just way too busy to be run like this.

Cheers,

Modeller





Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: marcello.romani on Mar 10, 2013, 03:27 pm
It seems to me there are in fact a few "board moterators", specifically in the "international" section. Uwe is one of the moderators of the Italian board.

(edit: typo)
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: modeller on Mar 10, 2013, 03:30 pm

It seems to me there are in fact a few "board moterators", specifically in the "international" section. Uwe is on of the moderators of the Italian board.


Well, at least someone is paying attention.

Yes indeed (except for Scandinavia), I have that board collapsed because I don't need to read it, but that's good. Now the question is, why do they not do it for the busiest boards on the forum?
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: retrolefty on Mar 10, 2013, 03:33 pm
Quote
IMHO, this forum is way too big, WAY to big, to be policed primarily by a few Global Moderators, and as I said Administrators are not supposed to be moderators. My guess is that it just evolved that way from years ago. But looking at it now, it needs to have it's moderating hierarchy gutted and set up the way SMF is meant to be set up. It's just way too busy to be run like this.

Cheers,

Modeller


Well I don't agree with your opinion of what this forum needs. You present a solution looking for a problem that doesn't exist in my opinion. I've been a member for over 4 years and seen the huge growth happen.

This forum started with almost no active moderation and had few problems to speak of, but as it grew the admin did ask for volunteers to help with typical moderation tasks and a few were selected.

This forum for it's huge size has not had a lot of problems with trolls and members posting abusive content considering the membership size and high posting traffic we have. What few show up are dealt with in a timely but fair manner. Once in a while some commercial ad bot spams the board pretty good but those are always handled in a timely manner.

So again I don't share that there is a problem here looking for a solution, our moderation is of the 'light handed' nature and I hope it remains that way. I don't wish to see this forum operate like a local government structure, too much politics and niches can form as a result of an over administrated forum.

Lefty
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: modeller on Mar 10, 2013, 03:46 pm
Look at these two -

Federico Vanzati, UweFederer

They are already Global Mods, and don't require an assignent to a board moderator slot.

Also look at the "moderators" of General Discussion.

Moderators: admin, Massimo Banzi, David Cuartielles, mellis

They are Administrators! There is no logical reason to assign an Admin to a board moderator slot - they can already do anything a moderator can do without the permission of a board moderator. That's what I mean, the way these slots are being used tells me they don't really understand SMF.


Well I don't agree with your opinion of what this forum needs.


Now were getting some responses.

Of course you don't agree Lefty, that's because you are part of the existing "clique". I wouldn't expect you to agree with me yet. That doesn't however mean that this moderating scheme is being used properly. Your argument is nothing more than this -

"It's always been done this way so how could it be better?"

Do you answer technical questions like that? No. You answer them with logical responses. I may not know the Arduino as well as you, but I think I know SMF and how it's supposed to be set up better than just about anyone here.

Why don't you try to answer my points logically. For example, why are Administrators assigned to board moderator slots? Start with that.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: retrolefty on Mar 10, 2013, 04:03 pm

Look at these two -

Federico Vanzati, UweFederer

They are already Global Mods, and don't require an assignent to a board moderator slot.

Also look at the "moderators" of General Discussion.

Moderators: admin, Massimo Banzi, David Cuartielles, mellis

They are Administrators! There is no logical reason to assign an Admin to a board moderator slot - they can already do anything a moderator can do without the permission of a board moderator. That's what I mean, the way these slots are being used tells me they don't really understand SMF.


Well I don't agree with your opinion of what this forum needs.


Now were getting some responses.

Of course you don't agree Lefty, that's because you are part of the existing "clique".

No such 'clique' exists, what you see posted is what there is, nothing more nothing less.

I wouldn't expect you to agree with me yet. That doesn't however mean that this moderating scheme is being used properly. Your argument is nothing more than this -

"It's always been done this way so how could it be better?"

Because the software allows the kind of structure you wish to implement does not mean it needs to be or should be implemented. Again, what problem specifically are you proposing to solve other then you think the membership population Vs moderator population is not what you would like to see?

Do you answer technical questions like that? No. You answer them with logical responses. I may not know the Arduino as well as you, but I think I know SMF and how it's supposed to be set up better than just about anyone here.

Again knowledge of the SMF tool does not mean one must implement every bell and whistle it has. I know C/C++ to a certain limited amount but it doesn't mean I try and use every feature the language offers.  

Why don't you try to answer my points logically. For example, why are Administrators assigned to board moderator slots? Start with that.
I don't even understand the question. Membership titles mean little to me compared to membership behaviour.
Lefty
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: modeller on Mar 10, 2013, 04:16 pm

Why don't you try to answer my points logically. For example, why are Administrators assigned to board moderator slots? Start with that.


Quote

I don't even understand the question. Membership titles mean little to me compared to membership behaviour.
Lefty


Well there you go. You don't even understand the question, which means you don't understand what SMF membergroup permissions are and who can use what permissions as relates to their membergroup.

If a person logs on and says they don't understand something about the Arduino, and you explain it to them and ask them a question, and then they tell you

"I don't even understand the question. Electronic part names titles mean little to me compared to their behavior in a a circuit." how would you respond?

I think you would keep trying to explain. It's the same behavior you are exhibiting here. You don't understand SMF permissions and membergroups, and somehow that makes what I'm telling you irrelevant to your pre-conceived opinion that the forum is set up the best it can be. It's clique behavior, which means that an outsider's opinions are usually met by opposition by the clique - I mean how can a new outsider be right about anything regarding the existing community? It's the same behavior exhibited by large corporations toward new people with new ideas. Ever try to change a large corporation as a newcomer? That's the way you are acting towards me.

Are you willing to listen to an expert on SMF (me), or are you going to exhibit to me the same behavior that you would frown upon by a newbie to electronics who wouldn't listen to your explanations of the Arduino?
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: retrolefty on Mar 10, 2013, 04:29 pm
Quote
Are you willing to listen to an expert on SMF (me), or are you going to exhibit to me the same behavior that you would frown upon by a newbie to electronics who wouldn't listen to your explanations of the Arduino?


I just voice my opinion as just a normal member of the forum, that I don't think there is a problem with the number of and/or behaviour of the existing moderators/administrators, or their running of this forum. I understand you feel there is something wrong but have failed to be very specific in your complaint, other then more cops on the streets are needed, think of the children.

Lefty
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: modeller on Mar 10, 2013, 04:39 pm

I just voice my opinion as just a normal member of the forum, that I don't think there is a problem with the number of and/or behaviour of the existing moderators/administrators, or their running of this forum. I understand you feel there is something wrong but have failed to be very specific in your complaint, other then more cops on the streets are needed, think of the children.


Yes I have been specific in a post above. You just glossed over the entire explanation. Is that the way you want new electronics members to act towards explanations you post?
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: retrolefty on Mar 10, 2013, 04:49 pm


I just voice my opinion as just a normal member of the forum, that I don't think there is a problem with the number of and/or behaviour of the existing moderators/administrators, or their running of this forum. I understand you feel there is something wrong but have failed to be very specific in your complaint, other then more cops on the streets are needed, think of the children.


Yes I have been specific in a post above. You just glossed over the entire explanation. Is that the way you want new electronics members to act towards explanations you post?


Well we are just talking past each other. Lets see if any other members have comments on your recommendations.

Lefty
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: modeller on Mar 10, 2013, 05:01 pm

Well we are just talking past each other. Lets see if any other members have comments on your recommendations.


Well, I PM'ed the Administrators yesterday. They are the ones who should care enough to look into issues. The issue I asked them about was a bona fide error message - the Document Expired error. I got Zip Zero Zilch for a response.

Since they don't care to respond, I have no other recourse than to speculate on why. Either they:

A. Don't care
B. They are too busy, which means they need more help
C. They are embarrassed that they don't know how to fix it so they choose to keep quiet
E. They like error messages to show up for members who use the search function

any other possibilities?
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: marcello.romani on Mar 10, 2013, 05:18 pm
At the risk of saying something silly, I'll throw in my 2 cents.

Being no expert about forum software in general, and SMF in particular, I can only say modeller's comments look reasonable to me, from a technical point of view. The fact that there's a mismatch between actual responsibilities and SMF "slot" assignments is indeed something that should be fixed, as the "expired document" problem reported before.

OTOH, I don't see this place being plagued with spam or a high number of misbehaving posters, name calling or things like that. IOW, my (limited, I admit) experience here tells me there's nothing (so) wrong that prevents experts and newcomers to do here what they come for. I.e. asking questions, providing answers, discussing about programming, microcontrollers and electronics in general.

So could the forum be better managed from a technical point of view ? It seems so. Is there a compelling need for this improvement ? It seems not. Or at least, I haven't seen those in charge of moderation and administration complain about technical shortcomings that make their life hard (at least in public).

As a user, the only real technical concern I have is about forum performance. Maybe an SMF ugprade would bring benefits in this area. But then again, I can live with the occasional performance problem, and I think it's reasonable that a (frightening) task such as an upgrade of a huge forum like this is subjected to the time constraints of the admins' agenda.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: modeller on Mar 10, 2013, 05:31 pm

At the risk of saying something silly, I'll throw in my 2 cents.

Being no expert about forum software in general, and SMF in particular, I can only say modeller's comments look reasonable to me, from a technical point of view. The fact that there's a mismatch between actual responsibilities and SMF "slot" assignments is indeed something that should be fixed, as the "expired document" problem reported before.

OTOH, I don't see this place being plagued with spam or a high number of misbehaving posters, name calling or things like that. IOW, my (limited, I admit) experience here tells me there's nothing (so) wrong that prevents experts and newcomers to do here what they come for. I.e. asking questions, providing answers, discussing about programming, microcontrollers and electronics in general.

So could the forum be better managed from a technical point of view ? It seems so. Is there a compelling need for this improvement ? It seems not. Or at least, I haven't seen those in charge of moderation and administration complain about technical shortcomings that make their life hard (at least in public).


Thank you for a logical and rational response tuxduino. I really appreciate that.
Quote

As a user, the only real technical concern I have is about forum performance. Maybe an SMF ugprade would bring benefits in this area. But then again, I can live with the occasional performance problem, and I think it's reasonable that a (frightening) task such as an upgrade of a huge forum like this is subjected to the time constraints of the admins' agenda.


They should really consider upgrading to SMF 2.0.4, because this version will not be supported in the coming months and it will not be receiving any more security updates after that time. I've personally done the upgrade from SMF 1.x.x to SMF 2.x.x and it isn't really a big deal.

You know what really concerns me though?

I've posted two topics on the "Website & Forum" board out of concern for an error message that should not come up, and contributing suggestions my years of experience with this forum software as a forum owner and administrator.

These topics were explicitly posted in the correct board. One can only assume that this board was created for a reason. I would also assume that the reason would be for the admins and owner to read and respond to concerns for the forum from it's users.

What are we to make of a lack of response to these topics? What are we to make of a lack of response to a concerned member's PM to Admins? The least they can do is acknowledge member's suggestions, I would think?

If they aren't willing to do this, then why does this board even exist?
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: marcello.romani on Mar 10, 2013, 06:17 pm
Since yours is not a simple rant but a technical suggestion from someone who dirtied his hands with the very software we're talking about, I would expect some kind of response from the admins.
My guess is they are very busy and these issues are way down their priority scale, so they "can't" even ask for help.

But I won't go any further in "remote mind-guessing" on the admins :-P
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: modeller on Mar 10, 2013, 11:02 pm

Since yours is not a simple rant but a technical suggestion from someone who dirtied his hands with the very software we're talking about, I would expect some kind of response from the admins.
My guess is they are very busy and these issues are way down their priority scale, so they "can't" even ask for help.


That goes right to my point - they need more help, and there are plenty of volunteers here to help them.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: marcello.romani on Mar 11, 2013, 12:36 am
Quote
They should really consider upgrading to SMF 2.0.4, because this version will not be supported in the coming months and it will not be receiving any more security updates after that time.


Maybe the fear of a future unpatched security hole will make the SMF upgrade climb up the priority list :-)
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: modeller on Mar 11, 2013, 12:53 am

Maybe the fear of a future unpatched security hole will make the SMF upgrade climb up the priority list :-)


Well anyway, I enjoyed talking with you. I don't mind disagreements when the other party has a decent understanding of the underlying technical points being debated. If they want to disagree just because my post count is low or for some other unrelated bias, that don't really cut the mustard.

Even if they want to keep the forum moderators for most of the boards all Global Mods, they don't seem to understand that assigning a Global Mod to a board moderator slot is completely redundant. Global Mods can moderate any board without being assigned as a moderator. And it's even sillier to assign Administrators into board moderator slots. Admins can do anything at all on the entire forum, by definition!

Seeing this just makes me think they don't really understand the underlying hierarchy of SMF. But who am I right? Just some poor slob that has years of experience with this system.  :~
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: AWOL on Mar 11, 2013, 12:33 pm
I'm a moderator.
I have no (nil, zippo, naff-all) knowledge of SMF, moderator slots, permissions or privileges, and until I retire and have some spare time, I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in acquiring such knowledge, and even then I can't imagine I'll be that excited about it.

I honestly don't see what everyone is getting so stressed about.

(Poacher-turned-gamekeeper, that's me - I just like thumping spammers)
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: modeller on Mar 11, 2013, 12:41 pm

I'm a moderator.
I have no (nil, zippo, naff-all) knowledge of SMF, moderator slots, permissions or privileges, and until I retire and have some spare time, I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in acquiring such knowledge, and even then I can't imagine I'll be that excited about it.

I honestly don't see what everyone is getting so stressed about.

(Poacher-turned-gamekeeper, that's me - I just like thumping spammers)


Wow - finally a response.

So why do you denigrate a person with knowledge. Do you do that to people answering electronics questions here? That's a shameful attitude to present. Everyone should respect people with knowledge, no matter what the area of expertise.

If you are a Global moderator then you should have knowledge of SMF, if you don't then how can you be expected to use the tools available to moderate the forum efficiently? You mean you never got any training at all? If all you do is answer electronics questions, then you don't need to be a moderator. Moderating isn't about being an expert in the subject of the forum, it's about being an expert in running the forum.

Why don't you read my comments and respond to the relevant technical aspects, instead of showing the attitude you are, that someone with expert knowledge should be put down like you are doing? What if I did that to another person who was sharing their knowledge, would that be acceptable to you?
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: AWOL on Mar 11, 2013, 01:02 pm
Quote
Wow - finally a response.

What's that supposed to mean?
Was this thread ever reported to the moderators?
I happened upon it, and thought I'd respond.

Quote
So why do you denigrate a person with knowledge.

Don't see any denigration - can you point it out please?
Quote
that someone with expert knowledge should be put down like you are doing?

Again, I'm going to need some pointers.

Quote
If you are a Global moderator then you should have knowledge of SMF

Why? I have an adequate set of tools that work.
I prefer the light-touch approach to moderation - I* don't want a Police State forum.
Except for spammers - then, I'm happy to be police, judge, jury and executioner.
(BTW, I didn't even volunteer to be a moderator - I'm one of those who had greatness (if such it is) thrust upon them)

Quote
it's about being an expert in running the forum.

I don't want to run the forum - that's Big Government - I want the forum to run itself.
I have absolutely no connection with Arduino whatsoever.
I just help out removing the miscreants - I'm more like a bouncer or a janitor.
This forum has an amazing cast of regulars (you'd probably say "clique" - I prefer "coterie") who report spam or crossposts as soon as they appear, and who assist enormously in keeping the place tidy.


Quote
If all you do is answer electronics questions, then you don't need to be a moderator.

I'm a computer science graduate - I only do electronics (OK, analogue electronics) at knifepoint.

Quote
Moderating isn't about being an expert in the subject of the forum, it's about being an expert in running the forum.

A job description! At last! After twenty months in the job.

*Like it says on the DVD special features disclaimer, all opinions are my own, and do not reflect the forum operators' views.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: modeller on Mar 11, 2013, 07:34 pm

What's that supposed to mean?
Was this thread ever reported to the moderators?
I happened upon it, and thought I'd respond.


Why not try reading the thread AWOL? I know it's a cazy idea but it really helps the understanding of the situation. Since you're a Global Mod you should be aware of the ideas existing thread you are posting in.

But, alas I guess I'll have to repeat myself. Yes I reported it to the Admins - all of them via PM. Here's what I sent (I posted it in the thread BTW -

Quote

Forum Error Messages Involving Searches

The courtesy of an official response in-thread is requested regarding the documented problem in the thread linked below.

Thank you very much for your attention,

Modeller

"Document Expired" Messages When Going Back to Search Results (http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/topic,148835.0.html)

cc:
Massimo Banzi
David Cuartielles
mellis
Davide
cmaglie
madbob


And what happened? Nothing. Not a damn thing. Not even a "Thank you Modeller for being concerned about forum errors"
That tells me a lot.

Quote

Don't see any denigration - can you point it out please?


It should be obvious to a Global Mod. Considering you need it pointed out, it wouldn't do much good.

Quote
If you are a Global moderator then you should have knowledge of SMF


Quote

Why? I have an adequate set of tools that work.


I'm going to consolidate my answer to save time and space. You should not be a Global Moderator when you admit this:


I have no (nil, zippo, naff-all) knowledge of SMF, moderator slots, permissions or privileges, and until I retire and have some spare time, I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in acquiring such knowledge, and even then I can't imagine I'll be that excited about it.


You should be at minimum a board Moderator, but not a Global Moderator. What you are doing is not the job a Global Moderator is supposed to do. It's kinda like using a jackhammer to pound in an upholstery tack. That's what I'm trying to get across. If you don't want to listen to experience that's your business, but that isn't going to prevent me advising what I have in-depth knowledge of.

You said -

Quote
I don't want to run the forum - that's Big Government - I want the forum to run itself.


Newsflash: No forum runs itself. Ever. And if you are a Global Mod you are supposed to help run it.

That's what a Global Moderator helps do - run the forum. I've explained it in another post you also probably skipped over. Actually all the moderators help run the forum. Why would you think moderators don't help run the forum? That's like saying you sit in the co-pilot's seat in the cockpit but don't want to help fly the plane.

Global moderators supervise board moderators, act on Reports to Moderator in cases where there is a severe rules violation, recruit new moderators, and other housekeeping given to them by Admins via the permissions. They don't have to moderate the entire forum. For a forum of this size and this traffic level - it's nearly impossible, case in point this thread, where you claim to have just now come across it.

I think you are a very, very smart person. There's lots of them here. I think you are a great asset to the forum, but if you don't want to help run it, that's a classic screening question that would exclude a person from being a Global Moderator. That's "What They Do".

Anyone who is a great asset, but does not want to help run the forum, shouldn't be a moderator. However, they many times are placed into special member groups that can be created with a high ranking. Again, in my experience, this is what I would do here. Valuable members such as yourself, who don't want to help run it (as you freely admitted) should be given a special adviser's group or helper group or whatever name you want to call it. But again, what do I know right? I mean I've only spent the past 8 or nine years doing what you don't like to do - running forums, installing them from scratch, and recruiting staff/moderators.

Quote
Moderating isn't about being an expert in the subject of the forum, it's about being an expert in running the forum.


Quote
A job description! At last! After twenty months in the job.


You just now got a job description for a Global Moderator after all that time? You should have had one on the first day.

Anyway, at least you did respond, I'll give you credit for that.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: PaulS on Mar 11, 2013, 08:45 pm
Modeller, I think you have a serious misconception of what a global moderator's role it. Moderators of any level are NOT administrators.

There is an email list that moderators share information on, and there was a hint that a major forum upgrade is in the not-too-distant future.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: AWOL on Mar 11, 2013, 08:59 pm
Quote
I think you have a serious misconception of what a global moderator's role i(s)

We're also not omniscient - no-one (to the best of my knowledge) has used the "report to moderators" control on this thread.

Quote
It should be obvious to a Global Mod. Considering you need it pointed out, it wouldn't do much good.
still waiting on this one.

Quote
You should not be a Global Moderator when you admit this:

Quote from: AWOL on Today at 12:33:32
I have no (nil, zippo, naff-all) knowledge of SMF, moderator slots, permissions or privileges, and until I retire and have some spare time, I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in acquiring such knowledge, and even then I can't imagine I'll be that excited about it.

You should be at minimum a board Moderator, but not a Global Moderator
despite you not being able to locate the "report to moderator" control on every single post on the forum (yes, really!), and despite you misunderstanding the difference between a moderator and an administrator, I feel compelled to tender my resignation and my sincerest apologies to the forum for posing as an unqualified moderator for the last twenty months.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: modeller on Mar 11, 2013, 10:29 pm

Modeller, I think you have a serious misconception of what a global moderator's role it. Moderators of any level are NOT administrators.


Who said they were? No Paul, I know exactly what a Global Moderator is supposed to do. I've been one. I've assigned people to that role. I know what an Administrator is supposed to do because I am one on two other SMF forums that are properly set up as far as Admins, Globals, and board moderators. I know everything about what all these positions can do, so there is no way I can be confused about it.

I don't have a clue what you mean by "Moderators of any level are NOT administrators." I've already explained what all those roles are supposed to do. I know what I'm talking about.


Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: modeller on Mar 11, 2013, 10:37 pm

Quote
I think you have a serious misconception of what a global moderator's role i(s)

We're also not omniscient - no-one (to the best of my knowledge) has used the "report to moderators" control on this thread.


I don't have any idea what that means in terms of this conversation.

Quote
still waiting on this one.


OK.

Quote

despite you not being able to locate the "report to moderator" control on every single post on the forum (yes, really!), and despite you misunderstanding the difference between a moderator and an administrator, I feel compelled to tender my resignation and my sincerest apologies to the forum for posing as an unqualified moderator for the last twenty months.


I have no misunderstanding between an Administrator and a Global Moderator. Sorry, but I know what I'm talking about in this area. Why are you all are so scared and frightened by my knowledge of SMF forums? I mean it's amazing. I can't make you do anything, so what's the problem?

Nobody should be afraid of information from an expert. Why don't you calm down and consider, possibly, maybe, I might just know what I'm talking about. I'd do the same for your knowledge of the Arduino.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: AWOL on Mar 11, 2013, 11:03 pm
Scared?
Frightened?
I don't understand your use of language - it seems to me to be confrontational.
Is English your mother tongue?
I'm guessing not.

Quote
I don't have any idea what that means in terms of this conversation.
It means I do not, and cannot, read every post in every thread on every section. I'm assuming that goes for the other mods too. No one brought this thread to the attention of the moderators, so it isn't surprising that no moderators responded, which makes your "Wow!" response above all the more disappointing.

Quote
I'd do the same for your knowledge of the Arduino.
You'd be astonished how limited that is too.  ;)

Quote
Why don't you calm down
Calm? Me?
I'm so chilled, you could keep a side of beef (horse, if you work for Tesco) fresh in me for weeks.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: modeller on Mar 11, 2013, 11:16 pm

Scared?
Frightened?
I don't understand your use of language - it seems to me to be confrontational.
Is English your mother tongue?
I'm guessing not.


It is. But that's my perception of your reaction. You seem unsure of your moderator status. That's how it sounds to me.

Quote
It means I do not, and cannot, read every post in every thread on every section. I'm assuming that goes for the other mods too. No one brought this thread to the attention of the moderators, so it isn't surprising that no moderators responded, which makes your "Wow!" response above all the more disappointing.


Why does it need to be brought to their attention? In this type of board, all the threads should be if interest to the moderators, or at least the Admins. That's because of the nature of the board. It's about the website and forum. Who else would it concern but the staff of the forum (and the owner too).

Quote
You'd be astonished how limited that is too.  ;)


I think you underestimate yourself in this area.

Quote

I'm so chilled, you could keep a side of beef (horse, if you work for Tesco) fresh in me for weeks.


Well, I suggest we try to start over, or just drop it, because I don't want my advice to start upsetting people.

But it's too bad it does.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: AWOL on Mar 11, 2013, 11:22 pm
Quote
You seem unsure of your moderator status.

Oh no. Not me.   ]:D

Quote
In this type of board, all the threads should be if interest to the moderators
Get real.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: nickgammon on Mar 11, 2013, 11:27 pm
I'm going to have to admit I skimmed most of this thread. It isn't really my job to read every thread on the forum. I try to help with technical questions if I can, and respond to "report to moderator" messages.

To address one of your issues, modeller, I (and a few others) are Global Moderators simply, I believe (and I could be wrong), that it is an easy way for the forum admins to set up a person to address issues on every board (section). So say, for example, there is spam in "E-Textiles and Craft" I can deal with it. However I'm not an expert on E-Textiles, and don't visit that part often.

I've looked at SMF briefly, and I gather that each level of moderator has permissions which can be altered by the forum administrators. I suppose they could assign the permission to get rid of spam to every moderator (maybe they have).

...

I just read page 1 of this thread. I'm uncertain how we got from "forum down" to "moderator permissions are wrong" but to be honest, I'm not that interested in reading all 7 pages to find out.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: modeller on Mar 11, 2013, 11:28 pm

Quote
In this type of board, all the threads should be if interest to the moderators
Get real.


Oh I'm always real. I'm the real deal - can't you tell by now?  :)
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: nickgammon on Mar 11, 2013, 11:33 pm

In this type of board, all the threads should be if interest to the moderators, or at least the Admins.


Seriously? I don't even speak all those languages, but even given you mean the ones in English, I'm more interested in spending time helping people with technical questions than reading every last post. I doubt the admins have even as much time as I do.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: modeller on Mar 11, 2013, 11:35 pm

I'm going to have to admit I skimmed most of this thread. It isn't really my job to read every thread on the forum. I try to help with technical questions if I can, and respond to "report to moderator" messages.

To address one of your issues, modeller, I (and a few others) are Global Moderators simply, I believe (and I could be wrong), that it is an easy way for the forum admins to set up a person to address issues on every board (section). So say, for example, there is spam in "E-Textiles and Craft" I can deal with it. However I'm not an expert on E-Textiles, and don't visit that part often.

I've looked at SMF briefly, and I gather that each level of moderator has permissions which can be altered by the forum administrators. I suppose they could assign the permission to get rid of spam to every moderator (maybe they have).


Hello Nick, thanks for the nice response.

Sorry for the hard opinion on this business, but I really do know SMF very, very well. Shoot, I even hang out on the SMF support forum every day - like you guys do here. Yea, I really do that.  :)

I just think the way the Mods are set up isn't the best, and I'm sorry for perhaps opening my mouth about it. For example - look at the General Discussion board. Most of the Admins are listed as board mods - that's just really silly, because the Admins can do anything they want to on the forum. I'm sorry, but I notice those types of things like you guys notice badly biased transistors.

I'll try to dial it back. But I do have suggestions if you guys ever want them.

Quote

I just read page 1 of this thread. I'm uncertain how we got from "forum down" to "moderator permissions are wrong" but to be honest, I'm not that interested in reading all 7 pages to find out.


It's derailed now - totally derailed.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: nickgammon on Mar 11, 2013, 11:38 pm

For example - look at the General Discussion board. Most of the Admins are listed as board mods - that's just really silly, ...


That's probably legacy from when they set up the forum, probably starting with General Discussion.

Don't feel too bad, suggestions I make get ignored too.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: AWOL on Mar 11, 2013, 11:39 pm
Interesting reading (http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php?action=stats)

(That's "reading", not "Reading". Dear me, no. Reading isn't at all interesting, even worse than Bracknell)
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: modeller on Mar 11, 2013, 11:39 pm
... I'm more interested in spending time helping people with technical questions than reading every last post. I doubt the admins have even as much time as I do.


I just saw this response.

Well, you know the solution to that problem as well as I do.

Get more volunteers. This is one of the busiest forums I've registered on. I can't believe the amount of posts per day. I joined up hoping I could follow them all but I had no idea of the amount of traffic here. IMHO, you really need more volunteers to moderate to keep an eye on things and to respond to the suggestions given by members and to forward good ones to the owners.

I don't think that's a bad idea.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: modeller on Mar 11, 2013, 11:43 pm

Interesting reading (http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php?action=stats)

(That's "reading", not "Reading". Dear me, no. Reading isn't at all interesting, even worse than Braknell)


Yes, I've looked at that. It's amazing the amount of traffic here. Thus, the need for every board to have moderators.

I think you might be confusing what I mean by moderators as opposed to electronics/programming helpers/experts on the forum. In my mind, they are two different types of "people". They can be the same type of person, but many times they don't have to be. I could moderate a forum on knitting fairly well and not know a damn thing about it. But I can't be an expert knitting helper person. That might be part of the confusion.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: AWOL on Mar 11, 2013, 11:57 pm
Quote
I could moderate a forum on knitting fairly well and not know a damn thing about it.
yup, that's me and Arduino.
There's no confusion.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: Coding Badly on Mar 12, 2013, 02:35 am
It means I do not, and cannot, read every post in every thread on every section. I'm assuming that goes for the other mods too.


Yup.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: Coding Badly on Mar 12, 2013, 02:40 am
Interesting reading (http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php?action=stats)


Quote
Top Topic Starters... Coding Badly


How the hell did that happen?
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: nickgammon on Mar 12, 2013, 03:28 am

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Top Topic Starters... Coding Badly


How the hell did that happen?


You have a lot of interesting ideas. :)

Actually it's because when you move a thread you "start a new topic", I'm guessing.
Title: Re: Forum Website Down
Post by: Coding Badly on Mar 12, 2013, 04:06 am
You have a lot of interesting ideas. :)


I wish!

Quote
Actually it's because when you move a thread you "start a new topic", I'm guessing.


That's my guess as well.  How odd.  I obsessively move threads to where they "belong" but my desk is a cluttered disaster.  I wonder why obsessive-compulsive behaviour applies to one but not the other?