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Topic: Forum posting limit rant (Read 1 time) previous topic - next topic

Constant_Confusion

First of all, I have every right to be angry. I am the party being insulted by this forum. In fact every new member under 100 posts is insulted by this forum. To help you understand why and how we are insulted, I will use an analogy. In the criminal justice system, a person is assumed to be innocent of a crime until proven guilty. There are many reasons for this assumption, but the main reason is how is a person expected to prove their innocence by random accusations. Sometimes this is impossible. Another reason is that this assumption of guilty actually breeds more crime. A person might commit a crime where they might have otherwise have not committed a crime since they cannot change the perception of any observer (I'm already considered a criminal so why not be one). I cannot prove to this forum that I am not a spammer so maybe I will be a spammer from here on out huh?

Secondly, this assumption of a new poster is a spammer and treated differently than a poster that has more than 100 posts is discriminatory behavior. Each one of the members of this forum that is aware of this behavior is condoning discrimination and guilty of allowing this behavior to continue. This is where septillion and Southpark fit in. You seem to think that this behavior is OK and normal. The absurd comment "It would be nice to have at least one notification (the very first notification, which will not be shown again after the first one) that says 'limitation will be lifted after 100 posts'. This would at least allow new users to understand the system." does nothing to help the situation. I mean go ahead and make the statement you wish new users to read and tell me it is not insulting, kind of like putting a sign on every street that they are assumed to be a criminal at all times until their first successful criminal court case defense.

And last but not least, there are offensive words in my post. I will never remove them and will use this colorful language directed to people who behave in this manner. The use of the word "retard" is used correctly. When you call someone a retard, you aren't making fun of people who are mentally handicapped. They can't help who they are, it's fine. You're making fun of someone who is acting mentally handicapped, but CAN help it. It's an insult because you're pointing out the fact that they aren't living up to their true potential.
It's like calling someone a child when they're acting immature. It's not offensive to children, because they can't help it. It's offensive to an adult because he's not living up to his potential.
I am actually describing the message itself, but it does not matter.

I would like to help the people who run this forum make it better since they may not know of a better way to go about solving the spammer issue. Instead of assuming that all new posters are spammers, let us use intelligence in place of insulting and discriminatory policies. We can implement an algorithm that helps determine a spammer from a poster that is asking for help. Off the top of my head, I would think a spammer wants as many eyes on their message or advertisement as possible. This means their message will be 90% or more duplicated and across more than one thread. It would be a waste of time to spam the same thread and no other thread. Additionally, a search for hyperlinks within the message itself can help pinpoint a spammer but cannot be used as the sole means of the determining factor. If the spammers are automated, then the message time stamps will have a consistent time interval between spams and most likely very fast. I do not have any spam data so I would have better solutions once I analyzed the data from spammers compared to non spammers.

I apologize if anyone reading this is offended, unless of course you are responsible for setting the policies of the forum. In this case you are an a$$hole until you realize your shortcomings and take steps to fix your behavior.

I recommend someone to report this to the moderator.

Chris

evanmars


AWOL

#2
Dec 06, 2017, 04:13 pm Last Edit: Dec 06, 2017, 04:23 pm by AWOL
Moderator here:
Blah, blah, blah.

TL;DR

I assume anyone who wants the 100 post limit removed will be happy to volunteer their time (for free of course) to tidy up after one of the drive-by spammings that were common before the limit was put in place, or put in place the forum modifications to implement the aforementioned algorithms.

Any takers?

No, I thought not.

Suck it up.
And mind the language - this here's a family forum.

And please remember to use code tags when posting code.
It's in the posting guidelines.
What do you mean you didn't read them?
"Pete, it's a fool looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart." Ulysses Everett McGill.
Do not send technical questions via personal messaging - they will be ignored.
I speak for myself, not Arduino.

DangerToMyself

First of all, I have every right to be angry. I am the party being insulted by this forum. In fact every new member under 100 posts is insulted by this forum. To help you understand why and how we are insulted, I will use an analogy. In the criminal justice system, a person is assumed to be innocent of a crime until proven guilty. There are many reasons for this assumption, but the main reason is how is a person expected to prove their innocence by random accusations. Sometimes this is impossible. Another reason is that this assumption of guilty actually breeds more crime. A person might commit a crime where they might have otherwise have not committed a crime since they cannot change the perception of any observer (I'm already considered a criminal so why not be one). I cannot prove to this forum that I am not a spammer so maybe I will be a spammer from here on out huh?

Secondly, this assumption of a new poster is a spammer and treated differently than a poster that has more than 100 posts is discriminatory behavior. Each one of the members of this forum that is aware of this behavior is condoning discrimination and guilty of allowing this behavior to continue. This is where septillion and Southpark fit in. You seem to think that this behavior is OK and normal. The absurd comment "It would be nice to have at least one notification (the very first notification, which will not be shown again after the first one) that says 'limitation will be lifted after 100 posts'. This would at least allow new users to understand the system." does nothing to help the situation. I mean go ahead and make the statement you wish new users to read and tell me it is not insulting, kind of like putting a sign on every street that they are assumed to be a criminal at all times until their first successful criminal court case defense.

And last but not least, there are offensive words in my post. I will never remove them and will use this colorful language directed to people who behave in this manner. The use of the word "retard" is used correctly. When you call someone a retard, you aren't making fun of people who are mentally handicapped. They can't help who they are, it's fine. You're making fun of someone who is acting mentally handicapped, but CAN help it. It's an insult because you're pointing out the fact that they aren't living up to their true potential.
It's like calling someone a child when they're acting immature. It's not offensive to children, because they can't help it. It's offensive to an adult because he's not living up to his potential.
I am actually describing the message itself, but it does not matter.

I would like to help the people who run this forum make it better since they may not know of a better way to go about solving the spammer issue. Instead of assuming that all new posters are spammers, let us use intelligence in place of insulting and discriminatory policies. We can implement an algorithm that helps determine a spammer from a poster that is asking for help. Off the top of my head, I would think a spammer wants as many eyes on their message or advertisement as possible. This means their message will be 90% or more duplicated and across more than one thread. It would be a waste of time to spam the same thread and no other thread. Additionally, a search for hyperlinks within the message itself can help pinpoint a spammer but cannot be used as the sole means of the determining factor. If the spammers are automated, then the message time stamps will have a consistent time interval between spams and most likely very fast. I do not have any spam data so I would have better solutions once I analyzed the data from spammers compared to non spammers.

I apologize if anyone reading this is offended, unless of course you are responsible for setting the policies of the forum. In this case you are an a$$hole until you realize your shortcomings and take steps to fix your behavior.

I recommend someone to report this to the moderator.

Chris
You can be angry if you want. Your line of thinking leaves a lot to be desired by those with common sense.

Firstly...... It's not about "innocent until proven guilty". It's about security at the front door. Much like courthouses, sports stadiums, etc have metal detectors to check for illegal/disallowed items to keep others safe.

Secondly..... It can't be "discrimination" if EVERYONE has to do it. That's like saying the speed limit is discriminatory.

Lastly..... Use whatever language you like. The mods can edit your post, delete it, and even ban you. Do what you will. But there are some great folks here willing to take time out of their day to help folks like yourself for free. And they won't put up with it.

Have a great day!

Jimmus

The 5 minute time limit is inconvenient.  It is frustrating.   I think I understand why it is there, so we live with it.  But I have a suggestion that would eliminate more than half of my frustration with it.

Why in the world won't it let me edit my own reply?  I make a post, I re-read it, and realize there is a typo or another error or something I would like to say in a different way.  I quickly edit my post, and Boom!  I have to wait another 3 minutes because I might be a spammer?!?   Sure, I used the Preview button, but it doesn't always format it in the same way, and sometimes I missed something.

AWOL

I agree that the edit limit is annoying.
Plenty of threads on that subject.
Maybe the admins will take note.
"Pete, it's a fool looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart." Ulysses Everett McGill.
Do not send technical questions via personal messaging - they will be ignored.
I speak for myself, not Arduino.

Constant_Confusion

AWOL,

People do amazing things for free all the time. The fact that spam exists does not change this.

Being a moderator is similar to being a judge. Based on your reply I do not believe you are qualified for the position. You pretend to be smart enough to be able to speak for everyone on the forum when you answered your own question that was directed to all members of the forum. I am willing to bet that there are many people who agree with me that this forum has at least one discriminatory practice in place. Now I have given suggestions to methods to change the spam detection to a non-discriminatory detection method.

I also noticed you reading comprehension skill is much to be desired when you ask "What do you mean you didn't read them?". I did not write this statement. This is not a good defense but I skimmed the "code" part because I did not think I was going to be posting code since it is example code. But then realized that there may be different revisions to the code during the actual first post. Now I have apologized for my mistake in case you missed it moderator. It looks like "I was reading a different rule post when you were replying to my post and I knew I was caught like a cat that ate the canary. I apologize, that is my bad."


DangerToMyself,

Your analogy is incorrect and incomplete. The security at the front door is the actual login and bot check when a user signs in. To complete the analogy, the new guests would be seated in the nose-blead seats while the guests with 100 or more posts would get the sideline seats while all guests having paid the same ticket price.

The speed limit analogy lacks any sense whatsoever. Once a person has traveled the road more than 100 times then the speed limit does not apply to them. This is discrimination by definition.

You do make a good point about my language. I let my anger get the best of me and I am sorry. I will try to be a better person. Being a better person also means that I will not put up with discrimination.

To All,

I think that this is a good time for this community to weigh in and give their opinion as to whether or not this 100 post limit is a discriminatory policy.

I am confident it is so from here on out I will be vocally and literally advocating that ARDUINO practices discriminatory behavior and that there are other products on the market that do not have such policies in place.

Chris

AWOL

#7
Dec 06, 2017, 06:07 pm Last Edit: Dec 06, 2017, 06:11 pm by AWOL
Hey! Let's be non-discriminatory - let's make everyone a moderator!


Quote
People do amazing things for free all the time. The fact that spam exists does not change this.
Can you spell "non sequitur"?

Is there something wrong with your reading comprehension skills?

Read my sig - "I speak for myself"
"Pete, it's a fool looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart." Ulysses Everett McGill.
Do not send technical questions via personal messaging - they will be ignored.
I speak for myself, not Arduino.

Constant_Confusion

AWOL,

If I cannot correctly spell "non sequitur" does this make me less of a human than yourself? Do I have to correctly spell both words or just sequitur or does each correctly spelled word add to my value as a human being?

I would need an example of my reading comprehension faults. If I am going to fix my worthiness, I will need to know what I missed besides what I have already admitted to and apologized for.

Just because you say "I speak for myself" that does not make it true. I imagine you became a moderator at their request because at the time you represented values that were consistent with ARDUINO policies and beliefs. I willing to wager that if you spouted racists comments, ARDUINO would revoke your status. You are in fact representing ARDUINO in regards to your actions on this forum.

I am willing to admit and apologize for my short comings and attempt to overcome them with advice from others. This is the important part, I am also prepared to take responsibility for my actions. If my actions get me barred from the forum then so be it. I apologized and again I am sorry for the language and the fact that I missed the code delimiter. I somehow feel that there are some missing apologies.

Being a moderator, you are looked up to my the majority of forum guests. Some people would say that this also means that you have a higher standard to strive toward.

AWOL

If I were to express racist sentiments here, I would revoke my own status as a forum member, let alone moderator.
I fail to see the point you're making.

I have no contact with Arduino.
Zero, zip,  nada.
I even opted-out of their cooperation tool because, in my opinion, things were moving far too slowly.

The only reason anyone should look up to me is that I'm somewhat over 185cm tall  - certainly nothing to do with any status bestowed (anointed? lumbered?) upon me by someone I have met only once, briefly, some time after the bestowing event.

For the record, I like the post throttle, I think it should allow edits, and I think the 100 post limit is too high. My position on these is all on record, here on the forum.

I'm now bailing-out of this storm in a teacup.

"Pete, it's a fool looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart." Ulysses Everett McGill.
Do not send technical questions via personal messaging - they will be ignored.
I speak for myself, not Arduino.

DangerToMyself

DangerToMyself,

Your analogy is incorrect and incomplete. The security at the front door is the actual login and bot check when a user signs in. To complete the analogy, the new guests would be seated in the nose-blead seats while the guests with 100 or more posts would get the sideline seats while all guests having paid the same ticket price.

The speed limit analogy lacks any sense whatsoever. Once a person has traveled the road more than 100 times then the speed limit does not apply to them. This is discrimination by definition.

You do make a good point about my language. I let my anger get the best of me and I am sorry. I will try to be a better person. Being a better person also means that I will not put up with discrimination.
You can "nitpick" what I, or others, say all you want. Anyone can see you're smart enough to know that the reasons this forum has it's rules as such, is out of necessity.

And as far as discrimination goes....

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANY OF THIS TO BE DESCRIMINATION IF EVERYONE HAS TO GO THROUGH THE SAME PROCESS.

Not sure why you think it can be. But it cannot. If mods were letting SOME people get past the limitation based on some factor (race, color, crede, sex, favorite food, etc, etc, etc), then you would have a valid argument. But they don't. EVERYONE gets in. And EVERYONE has to post 100 times to lift the limitation.

I, too, feel that 100 is a bit extreme. If it were up to me, which it isn't, I would probably set it to 15 or 20. But I wouldn't remove it all together.

Coding Badly

I, too, feel that 100 is a bit extreme.
A potential compromise...
https://github.com/arduino/forum-issues/issues/258

Post your support (there) if you agree.


AWOL

Won't that mean spammers will simply tack their efforts onto other threads?
"Pete, it's a fool looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart." Ulysses Everett McGill.
Do not send technical questions via personal messaging - they will be ignored.
I speak for myself, not Arduino.

Coding Badly


Good point.

The spammers that do that seem to want to be "sneaky"; a few posts over many days.  "Ignore me.  I'm just a hapless newbie."

I haven't noticed any carpet-bombers that post to existing threads.  Have you?


AWOL

Can't say I remember any like that, but back then, it was as easy to start a new thread as hijack an existing one.
They're an adaptable bunch.
"Pete, it's a fool looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart." Ulysses Everett McGill.
Do not send technical questions via personal messaging - they will be ignored.
I speak for myself, not Arduino.

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