32-bits is the new 8-bits

I think you see this through different eyes according to your experiences.

In 40 years of driving I've only had 2 bad(ish) accidents, neither of which would have been prevented by current technology. OTOH I've fixed vehicles maybe a 1000 times in the bush, side of the road, wherever. Many of those times I doubt I could have fixed the car if it was a new one and if it was an electronics problem the score would be 0%.

That said, If I'd been saved from injury or worse by ABS or other technology just once I'm sure I'd be a real convert :slight_smile: For example I don't live in the snow/ice so see little advantage in having traction control, it's one more thing to break, those who do live in such climates may have a different view about the feature.

Of all the electronics "stuff" in a car, how much is safety related? Does anyone know?

I wouldn't be surprised if at some point we may see car-bus systems extend out to the periphery, i.e. turning light assemblies, etc. being powered by a common voltage bus but commanded via a CAN or similar RS485 communication system to save on wiring and weight.

Another thing we can't fix :slight_smile:


Rob

Hi Rob,

I agree completely - experiences will shape desires in terms of features. Traction control with a rear wheel drive car in the NE of the USA is a huge plus. Even with winter tires, I could kick the rear out easily. That's not an accomplishment, just a reflection of the road conditions up here frequently being less than ideal. Similarly, my main battlecruiser has 4WD and electronics make that better too.

There are other features that fall into the 'nice to have' category, like Bluetooth integration for the phone so that you can call people if you're stuck in traffic. Not a huge benefit in the bush, but a frequent enough issue up here commuting through Boston and its suburbs.

Integrated navigation and traffic monitoring is a computationally-intensive application but a huge time saver, whether you're commuting or traveling long distances along potentially congested highways.

Some people like to placate their kids with on-board videos, etc. All mine get is books-on-tape.

As I mentioned, getting good gas mileage is pretty much dependent on an array of sophisticated sensors, actuators, and so on. They do have the potential over time to make engines a whole lot less complicated, however. For example, I expect there will be a time when cam shafts and all the mechanicals associated with them will disappear, to be replaced by electronically-actuated valves instead. Analogous to the replacement of carburetors, I suppose. Ditto for integration of starter / alternator into the engine block vs. add-on approach via belts today.

I see huge improvement potentials in engines that are currently not realized because the car industry is inherently afraid to make changes. Microprocessors would be a big part of that and they already help mechanics diagnose exactly what the issues are that they're going to be dealing with when they open the hood. Thus, for me, the issue is not one of micro vs. no micro, its whether politicians can force the car companies to open their kimono regarding proprietary protocols, error codes, and so on.

That's a much bigger issue up here right now, with car companies arguing that it's perfectly OK to charge $20k+ for a OEM diagnostics tool that no independent shop can justify while dealerships get them virtually free. Similarly, I would like to be able to have a choice re: what OS my car entertainment system is running, as well as where it gets its data from.

Very interesting readings here :slight_smile:
@Rob
Here in Belgium there is no way to be more than 800Km away from your personal dealer.
In Belgium we have MAX(Border distance) < 300km.
In Belgium we have MAX(city distance) < 40km.
I really had to do the calculation to believe it would take a week to drive 800Km at 20Km/h.

:astonished: What a difference :astonished:

Best regards
Jantje

@Jantje
The bloke's car was limited to about 20kph in limp home mode, so yes it would take a week to get back to a large enough town (Cairns) to get the vehicle fixed. See this map to give you the context

The shorter black line is the trip in question, tip of Cape York to Cairns, roughly 800k.

The long line is the distance I drove after my bull incident mentioned in post #10. It's 3000k and in those days (mid 70s) a lot of it was gravel road and when there was bitumen it was rough as guts and single lane.

@Constantin
I got to thinking about things and realised that despite what I say we almost never fix anything these days, even in the old cars I rabbit on about. 99% of the time we replace things. I can no more carve a new crank shaft from a bent sapling than I can diagnose a CAN link with a piece of string.

100 or 200 years ago you did really fix things, in theory if an axle broke on your wagon you could chop down the nearest tree and make a new one. Look at how the sailors used to half rebuild a ship when they were stranded on some deserted coast.

We are already well past the point of being able to really fix things ourselves unless maybe you have your own machine shop. We can however diagnose problems, go get the parts and stick them in to "fix" the vehicle. But we didn't fix the part itself and normally have no chance of doing so.

So in that respect we are no worse off with modern technology as such. If we can diagnose that a black box ECU or even an ARM-based networked indicator light is busted we can get a new one and plug it in.

Which means we have to have the means to diagnose the problem and access to the parts to replace the faulty unit.

with car companies arguing that it's perfectly OK to charge $20k+ for a OEM diagnostics tool that no independent shop can justify while dealerships get them virtually free.

So that does seem to be a large part of the problem then, you need cheap diagnostic tools and access to parts. If either are locked up by the car manufacturers then you are stuffed.

So if/when you can buy a cheap diagnostic device and cheap replacement black boxes I'd say I would be happy to have the modern tech in a car. I would be no worse off with regard to replacing broken parts and in fact better off because they almost never need replacing in the first place.

like Bluetooth integration for the phone so that you can call people if you're stuck in traffic.

One man's nice to have is another man's total waste of time. It's really interesting to see the obvious differences in our lifestyles. I often turn my phone off to save the battery and realise a week later that to forgot to turn it back on :slight_smile:

Mind you I seldom go for 10 minutes without checking my email, I'm pretty hooked on the internet and it kills me when I'm out of range.

I do have a new car these days but here's my last car, pretty much like yours I suspect

Petrol consumption was diabolical (I carried 8 jerry cans in the back) but I bet you can't carry your firewood on the bull bar like that :slight_smile:

Damn that was a good car, I wish I never sold it and am seriously thinking of looking for another one.


Rob

For driving around urban areas, a modern hitech car that is under guarantee is fine.

For those of us who drive hours in older cars between urban areas, an easy fix car is much better. Horses for courses. We have the advantage of open sweeping roads to drive on :slight_smile:

What really bugs me though is that there seems so be a new car launch every week !

And this in a world in recession ! ( and dont get me going about money spent on celphones and tablets etc ! )

Disposable capital in many families is spent mainly on a few gadgets that do not benifit their country ( apart from some local service providers )

There seem to be a few manufacturers sharing engines, but I think there should a "standard" engine, gearbox, and transmission on a subframe available, and let various companies tart it up with body shapes and gadgets to woo buyers.

OK I have put the soap box away now.

Graynomad,

Land Cruiser FJ 40 ?

Mine is a lot smaller and has been waiting for me to install a two speed gear box for almost as many years -

It would look nicer with some more sensible tyres I know.

Duane B

rcarduino.blogspot.com

Graynomad
Thanks for sharing the image that compares europe to australia.
I live in the red spot next to France and it not spain. I think that proves my point :slight_smile:

Best regards
Jantje

Graynomad:
...I do have a new car these days but here's my last car, pretty much like yours I suspect

... Petrol consumption was diabolical (I carried 8 jerry cans in the back) but I bet you can't carry your firewood on the bull bar like that :slight_smile: Damn that was a good car, I wish I never sold it and am seriously thinking of looking for another one.

And there is the difference. My heat source consists of dinosaur-era farts, while you're using renewables already. I get about 27-29 MPG @ 75MPH, which is pretty good. On the downside, the ground clearance is but 4.5", so its way too easy to either go kerplunk on something in the street, or to hit a door on a badly-installed kerb. But, lots of space inside, three kids across in the rear row, etc. so it's the perfect station wagon for me at this stage in my life. The convertible is loads of fun too but I may sell it because I get to drive it so rarely these days.

In Australia, I'd be operating differently too. Much more important to have all sorts of safety gear along for the ride that is not needed here. After all, our service stations / tow folk are usually less than 5 miles away, in the bush it could be 100+ miles.

I live in the red spot next to France and it not spain. I think that proves my point :slight_smile:

I thought I'd see what our largest station (farm/ranch) is and found this so couldn't resist posting it :slight_smile:

Anna Creek Station is the world's largest pastoral lease in the world. Covering over 30,100 sq kms, 5.5 million acres, it runs up to 18,000 head of cattle, depending on rain conditions. Anna Creek is huge - bigger than Belgium, half the size of England, five times larger than its nearest United States competitor and is about 8,000 sq. kms larger than its nearest rival in the N.T. of Australia, Alexandria Station.

And there are just 18 people living there.

@Duane
I love the 40-series. Yes those tyres are a little extreme :slight_smile: I've always preferred the standard narrow tyres (razor blades as we call them), they are easier to thread between sharp rocks, cheaper, less strain on the drive train and steel rims can be fixed in the bush, mags can't. Also when you let the air out they are (according to some tests) no worse than fat tyres in the sand.

That's one mean-looking rig. Is it street legal?

What really bugs me though is that there seems so be a new car launch every week !

Me too, that's one thing I like about the "commercial" versions of Landrover and Toyota. The 40-series looked the same for about 24 years, that was followed by the 7x-series which looks almost the same after 28 years and still going. They have made some changes with the last model or two, most notably coil springs on the front (good) and a V8 diesel (not so good apparently) but the design is still almost the same.

Whereas most other cars change everything 3 times a year just so they are different to the last model. What a crock.

while you're using renewables already.

I've been living on solar for 12 years and we really aren't part of the "consumer" society although I'm not short of my toys I guess, so I reckon my account in the carbon bank is in the black, or at least not as far in the red as most westerners.

ground clearance is but 4.5"

Ooo, that's a problem. How the heck do you work on anything? Do they even make jacks that low :slight_smile: I love our motorhome, at some parts I can crawl under it on hands and knees without touching anything. OTOH when I have to use a spanner or something the blood runs from my arms after a few minutes because I'm holding them so high.

In Australia, I'd be operating differently too

Yeah you should have a vehicle that's appropriate for your environment and personal situation.

I'm heading off to eBay to look for a 40-series with a new motor.


Rob

How about emergency transport? Throw a bush pig in the trunk along with a full jerry can and a backpack. But 800 km on a bush pig, you'd deserve some kind of medal!

You might deserve a medal, but what you'd actually get is a trip to the hospital to put your guts back into your intestinal cavity, and that's if you're lucky :slight_smile:


Rob

That's one mean-looking rig. Is it street legal?

I wondered if I would get away with that. Its an RC Truck, whats more surprising is that the bodyshell starts out as a clear plastic jelly mold - with a bit of paint and a few stickers they can look pretty good.

Duane B

rcarduino.blogspot.com

He he, got me there :slight_smile: I know you're into RC and I did think the windows were a little strange and there's no door furniture, but people customise vehicles in all sorts of ways so you never know.

However as a photographer I should have cottoned onto the shallow depth of field. That's a give away. But then it's a common technique these days to manipulate the plane of focus with a TS lens to create that affect and make street scenes and other large objects look like models.

So it's not street legal then?


Rob

In Belgium we have MAX(Border distance) < 300km.

Heh. That reminds me of one of my favorite insightful and in offensive jokes:
"The difference between the US and Europe is that in Europe, 100 miles [sic] is a long distance, and in the US 100 years is a long time."

Mine isn't a very good example but there is a very big scene of guys that build 'scale' RC Trucks where the focus is on realistic performance and appearance.

The chassis's are based on frame rails with center transfer cases, leaf springs, solid axles, three speed gearboxes etc etc. Lots of guys scratch build their chassis from brass, its all very impressive.

Example complete with scale rust -

They are usually very heavy so look very realistic in action.

Duane B

westfw:

In Belgium we have MAX(Border distance) < 300km.

Heh. That reminds me of one of my favorite insightful and in offensive jokes:
"The difference between the US and Europe is that in Europe, 100 miles [sic] is a long distance, and in the US 100 years is a long time."

I can fully agree on that.
Best regards
jantje

I wondered if I would get away with that. Its an RC Truck, whats more surprising is that the bodyshell starts out as a clear plastic jelly mold -  with a bit of paint and a few stickers they can look pretty good.

I needed a second look, but the antenna with the yellow flag is a clue...

"The difference between the US and Europe is that in Europe, 100 miles is a long distance, and in the US 100 years is a long time."

excellent quote westfw , I cant find the originator , sounds a bit Churchillian :slight_smile:

Graynomad:
He he, got me there :slight_smile: I know you're into RC and I did think the windows were a little strange and there's no door furniture, but people customise vehicles in all sorts of ways so you never know.

However as a photographer I should have cottoned onto the shallow depth of field. That's a give away. But then it's a common technique these days to manipulate the plane of focus with a TS lens to create that affect and make street scenes and other large objects look like models.

Several cameras now offer art filters that do the manipulation in the camera (Olympus calls it Diorama). One of the TV shows I watch tends to use it on the video camera to show time passing (they speed up the video or make a video from time lapse shots), and I find it to be really annoying.

Great quote, applies equally of you replace US with AUS I think.

Duane, I'll see your 4x4 model and raise you a 6x6

1:1 scale :slight_smile:

What size is that, it looks pretty big.

the focus is on realistic performance and appearance.

That interests me, more so than the high-speed racing etc. Nice and slow so you can see the parts all working.

now offer art filters that do the manipulation in the camera

I'm not a fan of doing anything in camera, you can't change your mind later.


Rob

Duane, I'll see your 4x4 model and raise you a 6x6

I will raise you an 8x8 1:10 scale, not mine, but still -

Duane B