news about The Foxconn Technology Group
http://hk.apple.nextmedia.com/template/apple/art_main.php?iss_id=20100523&sec_id=15335&subsec=15336&art_id=14058942
10th suicide at Chinese iPod firm Foxconn Technology
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dont they employ 400,000 people or something ridiculous than that?
Here I go sounding like an asshole, but I live in the US, work 2 jobs, at the end of the month have less leftover at the end of the month than these people and they do not have to pay for rent food or transportation
I know they work hard, but reading these articles seeing things like "our dreams of driving a bmw and owing an I phone are crushed" really does not play my heart strings, cause guess what, I cant afford a bmw, or an I phone either so join the friggin club
And yet there is no news reporter taking a picture of me being tired at my desk
Umm
http://www.who.int/mental_health/prevention/suicide_rates/en/index.html
based on the table above - they're doing pretty well.
Osgeld:
Are you even reading the same article? I don't see any mention of lacking in material things being the cause of this man's suicide.
We are both fortunate to live in a country where, if we don't like the working conditions, we can our boss to f-off and go somewhere else, and we don't have to worry about the secret police showing up at our door because of it.
Now, while Shenzhen (Shenzhen - Wikipedia) and more-so Hong Kong, are supposed to be "special" (as-in special economic zones - where China plays around with integrating capitalism with communism), the truth on the ground is likely far different. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if this man felt, for whatever reasons, that he didn't have a way out except for death. He was probably feeling depressed and had other issues long before this, but didn't have any support or anyone who cared (or maybe no place to go to seek help?).
I am not saying that all China-based companies are like this, but we really don't know, do we? Its a very strange business model they have, and it seems to be working fairly well for them, so much so that other countries and governments are looking to emulate it, which to me is a scary thing to think about. Capitalism as an economic engine to a strange blend of communism and totalitarianism seems be something that would be ultimately oppressive to the people under it, but seem to outsiders to an ok system (and to a certain segment, an alluring thing to emulate).
To me it seems this way, but I also have this strange feeling that it is all a scam in some manner, wool being pulled over the world's eyes just as long as the world can keep its cheap toy factory...
Are you even reading the same article? I don't see any mention of lacking in material things being the cause of this man's suicide.
no I have just read the other 45 articles including one from a Chinese newspaper where they went undercover into Foxconn and THAT was the opinion of the workers asked (boiled down)
and I would love to tell my boss that, but the last time I did that I ended up living on a couch for 4 months, so you CAN, but its much like taking a dump in your car, its really not advised
and I would love to tell my boss that, but the last time I did that I ended up living on a couch for 4 months, so you CAN, but its much like taking a dump in your car, its really not advised
Well - no, not literally - unless you are lucky and in the position of having "f-u" money (1-2 years of your current salary saved up). If you don't, then I advise that you do whatever you can to save that money until you do (and drop the credit cards and other unsecured debt like a hot rock). You don't know how liberating it can feel until you are there (getting there is another matter, though).
As far as the articles you have read, do you have any that were done undercover by a non-chinese source (and who have no connection with the company involved)? I would be more likely to trust such a source more than one who, if they wrote anything "bad" regarding working conditions at such a company, or anything against "the party", could be shut down immediately and the publishers/workers "disappeared" (or at least made very sorry they wrote such an article).
I don't really trust China's government; there's just this "hinkyness" about it that pegs my BS meter. Our government pegs that meter on occasion also, but at least I am fairly certain I won't disappear if I say something about it (although I suppose if I say too much my "plane" might crash mysteriously, with the investigation swept under the rug).
follow-up :
the 11th suicide at Foxconn (26 may 2010)
http://www.aboluowang.com/news/data/2010/0526/article_100776.html
Another Foxconn worker falls from a building in China
http://www.etaiwannews.com/etn/news_content.php?id=1267352&lang=eng
"Labor activists say the string of suicides back up their long-standing allegations that workers toil in terrible conditions at Foxconn. They claim shifts are long, the assembly line moves too fast and managers enforce military-style discipline on the work force.
In Hong Kong yesterday, about a dozen labor activists protested at Foxconn offices in the Chinese territory. They held signs that said, "Foxconn lacks a conscience" and "Suicide is no accident."
The protesters from the Hong Kong Confederation of Trade Unions burned cardboard cutouts resembling iPhones."
I cant help but think this is some stage against apple, did jobs pee on china somehow
the fact is Iphone and apple products in the foxconn universe is just a tiny tidbit, they practically make EVERYTHING that could be considered a consumer electronics product
where is the guy dressed up in a ps3, wheres the guy dresssed up as a tv, camcorder, mp3 player, other phones etc etc etc, how is this being tied into ONLY apple in these articles
Based on the WHO figure,s I posted a link to above, a company of that size should be seeing 4 or 5 deaths per month through suicide.
Based on the WHO figure,s I posted a link to above, a company of that size should be seeing 4 or 5 deaths per month through suicide.
Not really. I haven't looked for any evidence but I suspect suicide victims tend to be those without jobs.
Really? Is the company you work for recruiting?! 
follow-up : the 12th suicide (27 May 2010)
The 12th Jump Happened, Another Foxconn Employee Death
SACOM [ch22880][ch31085][ch23500][ch22763][ch24247] [ch33258][ch27578][ch24037][ch20154]--worker union's protest
Foxconn Plans Safety Nets, May Raise Pay After 12th Suicide
http://www.cio.com/article/595279/Foxconn_Plans_Safety_Nets_May_Raise_Pay_After_12th_Suicide?source=rss_news
Interesting - live, work, eat, play, recreate, die - everything in a little "city" controlled by your employer (where I doubt you have any say in how things are run); I would say this sounds like something out of a cyber-dystopian novel from the 1980s, but the fact is those authors simply extrapolated from the trends that were happening then.
It doesn't really surprise me that multiple serial suicides could happen in that kind of controlled insular environment, depending on the conditions. So now they plan to offer people more money (I wonder if the money is in some form of "company store" cash/credits, like old-time southwestern American mining towns used to have/abuse?)...
I wonder how close we are to such a thing here (again, I suppose - like I mentioned before, it was around back in the day in mining towns) in the US (on the surface, it doesn't seem like anything like that exists here; but then again, people fear losing their health insurance because of job layoffs or such - hmm)? It probably can't happen on that great of scale because we have more freedom of travel and means within our borders - unless further "predictions" of those same authors come true, and the suburb enclaves that we are seeing become more like insular "burbclaves" as one writer (Stephenson? Gibson? Sterling? One of the three) coined - with everything inside, network links to the outside, armed guards and fortress walls, and of course, Uncle Enzo's pizza delivery...
;D
Interesting thinking cr0sh, but how many of us "free" westerners could really afford to move somewhere else, or change jobs on a whim?
I've recently moved 150 miles and I'm really out of pocket. I certainly couldn't quit my job now and still afford to do things like eat and pay my rent.
There are villages and towns in the UK which were built to accommodate factory workers and their families - isolated towns set up in industrially convenient locations (mills next to water, pit towns near a decent seam), totally owned by the factory owner. It's nothing new.
It's nothing new.
I understand that, and so did those writers I mentioned. It isn't that it is new, its more that it is being "brought back" as "normal" within certain societies, and it is interesting to think whether it could "happen here" (ie, in western societies). I have no doubt that it can, since as both you and I have mentioned, its happened before in those self-same societies. However, the mindset now in those societies is different, but things change...
follow-up
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The basic MONTHLY salary of an electronic technician (iphone worker) is about USD$142.00.
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All forum discussions regarding the Foxconn suicide cases have been banned in China. No posts regarding the Foxconn tragedy can be created. It is as if nothing had happened.
3 selected news reporting from Hong Kong 's media (Cantonese) .
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- from Taiwan (Manderin)
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- YouTube
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- CNN : Apple and Dell investigate Foxconn plant
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/BUSINESS/05/26/foxconn.apple.dell.ft/index.html
Apple concluded that the main cause of the suicides is low wages. (The media has also attributed the suicides to a variety of other factors — everything from the semi-military style of management, to long overtime, to China's one-child policy, and Foxconn paying too much compensation to the family of suicide workers, thereby encouraging copycat suicides.) Apple plans to subsidize raises using its own products
There are they happy now? they get an Ipad