ArduinoISP Arduino uno & blank atmega8 bootloader burn trouble

simplex:

mysteredding:
im gonna be hella mad if it doesnt work

Likely microcontrollers and electronics in general are not for you.
It is self evident you have not read any help page from the beginning to the end. You do not have enough patience.

apparently you have never met me and therefore dont know me so dont go making an assumption about me thats obviously wrong, ive been repairing electronics for YEARS and working with arduino for only 1 so im still very new to it, but if you arent gonna give help and just criticize then dont post again

You shouldn't need a crystal, by the way.

Just as a heads-up, I think those chips are usually shipped to run off the internal 8 MHz oscillator, with the "divide clock by 8" fuse set. My programmer should work OK, I've used it with other "fresh" chips, but you might find you need to alter the fuse to get it up to full speed (once you have the bootloader on it). If you don't, it will be running at the wrong baud rate and the bootloader will appear not to be working.

[quote author=Nick Gammon link=topic=134097.msg1009512#msg1009512 date=1353878937]
I warn you that I don't have an Atmega8 (I might order one) so that isn't actually tested with one. It did work with all the other chips I tried in the post.
[/quote]i had noticed tho your tutorial doesnt incorporate completely blank(no-bootloader) bare(no-crystal) microcontrollers, have you tried it that way to see if itll work? im trying to get as much info on this as i can before i try it

[quote author=Nick Gammon link=topic=134097.msg1009527#msg1009527 date=1353879520]
(from tutorial) Type 'L' to use Lilypad (8 MHz) loader, or 'U' for Uno (16 MHz) loader
[/quote]is that for the chip being bootloaded(blank chip)?

somewhere along the line i got this error
/usr/share/arduino/hardware/arduino/cores/arduino/Arduino.h:212:26: fatal error: pins_arduino.h: No such file or directory
compilation terminated.

[quote author=Nick Gammon link=topic=134097.msg1009527#msg1009527 date=1353879520]
You shouldn't need a crystal, by the way.

Just as a heads-up, I think those chips are usually shipped to run off the internal 8 MHz oscillator, with the "divide clock by 8" fuse set. My programmer should work OK, I've used it with other "fresh" chips, but you might find you need to alter the fuse to get it up to full speed (once you have the bootloader on it). If you don't, it will be running at the wrong baud rate and the bootloader will appear not to be working.
[/quote]this is all i get, then hit reset

Atmega chip programmer.
Written by Nick Gammon.

Atmega chip programmer.
Written by Nick Gammon.

mysteredding:
i had noticed tho your tutorial doesnt incorporate completely blank(no-bootloader) bare(no-crystal) microcontrollers, have you tried it that way to see if itll work? im trying to get as much info on this as i can before i try it

Perhaps not on that page, but on this one I did:

Example:

mysteredding:
is that for the chip being bootloaded(blank chip)?

Yes, that's for the target chip. It only asks that for an Atmega328P. One answer gives you an 8 MHz internal oscillator bootloader, the other one gives you the 16 MHz bootloader.

mysteredding:

Atmega chip programmer.
Written by Nick Gammon.

Atmega chip programmer.
Written by Nick Gammon.

Right. That indicates that you are not succesfully "talking" to the target chip. I think the wiring is the same as the Atmega328 so your wiring should exactly match the photo above.

[quote author=Nick Gammon link=topic=134097.msg1009591#msg1009591 date=1353881550]

mysteredding:

Atmega chip programmer.
Written by Nick Gammon.

Atmega chip programmer.
Written by Nick Gammon.

Right. That indicates that you are not succesfully "talking" to the target chip. I think the wiring is the same as the Atmega328 so your wiring should exactly match the photo above.
[/quote]ive read your second tutorial and im guessing my 3rd party order has a pre-loaded bootloader to need a crystal, ive got some rip-outs(salvaged from old electronics) ive got a 13.#### mhz it fits onto that 4-20 range but am very limited on capacitors to use with it, are the capacitor numbers crucial to the crystal? or can i use some 47pico? and im not even sure about that number either i bought em took em out of package and forgot about em for a good while

See this photo:

Note the extra "clock" wire. That should be enough to clock the chip over. I'm pretty sure it worked for me.

tell you what Nick, you gave me a hell of a step in the right direction, plugging the crystal in and whatever capacitors im using(22j ceramic) which im guessing are the 22pico i needed read the chip found out yea it has a bootloader on it, im gonna try all i can to get this to work now, and thank you very much for having so much patients with me even tho my attitude was less than deserving of it, and i saw how busy you were helping everyone else, i really do appreciate everything you've done

ive got a 13.#### mhz it fits onto that 4-20 range but am very limited on capacitors to use with it, are the capacitor numbers crucial to the crystal?

That could work, plus there's a school of thought that the stray capacitance on the breadboard will be enough.

mysteredding:
tell you what Nick, you gave me a hell of a step in the right direction, plugging the crystal in and whatever capacitors im using(22j ceramic) which im guessing are the 22pico i needed read the chip found out yea it has a bootloader on it, im gonna try all i can to get this to work now, and thank you very much for having so much patients with me even tho my attitude was less than deserving of it, and i saw how busy you were helping everyone else, i really do appreciate everything you've done

Glad to hear you are getting closer. You could take the fuse readings it would have provided and compare to the calculator here:

http://www.engbedded.com/fusecalc

That might give a few clues. If the divide-by-8 fuse is set, then the bootloader might not work properly.

[quote author=Nick Gammon link=topic=134097.msg1009633#msg1009633 date=1353883801]
Glad to hear you are getting closer. You could take the fuse readings it would have provided and compare to the calculator here:

http://www.engbedded.com/fusecalc

That might give a few clues. If the divide-by-8 fuse is set, then the bootloader might not work properly.
[/quote]i get this when i upload board programmer
Binary sketch size: 24,068 bytes (of a 32,256 byte maximum)
avrdude: verification error, first mismatch at byte 0x2180
0xff != 0x27
avrdude: verification error; content mismatch
and i cant find any mention of it in either tutorial

i also got this when i open serial moniter

Entered programming mode OK.
Signature = 0x1E 0x93 0x07 
Processor = ATmega8A
Flash memory size = 8192 bytes.
LFuse = 0xBF 
HFuse = 0xCC 
EFuse = 0xFF 
Lock byte = 0xFF 
Clock calibration = 0xB3 
Bootloader address = 0x1C00
Bootloader length = 1024 bytes.
Type 'V' to verify, or 'G' to program the chip with the bootloader ...(i typed g)
Erasing chip ...
Writing bootloader ...
Committing page starting at 0x1C00
Committing page starting at 0x1C40
Committing page starting at 0x1C80
Committing page starting at 0x1CC0
Committing page starting at 0x1D00
Committing page starting at 0x1D40
Committing page starting at 0x1D80
Committing page starting at 0x1DC0
Committing page starting at 0x1E00
Committing page starting at 0x1E40
Committing page starting at 0x1E80
Committing page starting at 0x1EC0
Committing page starting at 0x1F00
Committing page starting at 0x1F40
Committing page starting at 0x1F80
Committing page starting at 0x1FC0
Written.
Verifying ...
Verification error at address 1C00. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x12 
Verification error at address 1C01. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xC0 
Verification error at address 1C02. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x2B 
Verification error at address 1C03. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xC0 
Verification error at address 1C04. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x2A 
Verification error at address 1C05. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xC0 
Verification error at address 1C06. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x29 
Verification error at address 1C07. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xC0 
Verification error at address 1C08. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x28 
Verification error at address 1C09. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xC0 
Verification error at address 1C0A. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x27 
Verification error at address 1C0B. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xC0 
Verification error at address 1C0C. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x26 
Verification error at address 1C0D. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xC0 
Verification error at address 1C0E. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x25 
Verification error at address 1C0F. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xC0 
Verification error at address 1C10. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x24 
Verification error at address 1C11. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xC0 
Verification error at address 1C12. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x23 
Verification error at address 1C13. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xC0 
Verification error at address 1C14. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x22 
Verification error at address 1C15. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xC0 
Verification error at address 1C16. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x21 
Verification error at address 1C17. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xC0 
Verification error at address 1C18. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x20 
Verification error at address 1C19. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xC0 
Verification error at address 1C1A. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x1F 
Verification error at address 1C1B. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xC0 
Verification error at address 1C1C. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x1E 
Verification error at address 1C1D. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xC0 
Verification error at address 1C1E. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x1D 
Verification error at address 1C1F. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xC0 
Verification error at address 1C20. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x1C 
Verification error at address 1C21. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xC0 
Verification error at address 1C22. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x1B 
Verification error at address 1C23. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xC0 
Verification error at address 1C24. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x1A 
Verification error at address 1C25. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xC0 
Verification error at address 1C26. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x11 
Verification error at address 1C27. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x24 
Verification error at address 1C28. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x1F 
Verification error at address 1C29. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xBE 
Verification error at address 1C2A. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xCF 
Verification error at address 1C2B. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xE5 
Verification error at address 1C2C. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xD4 
Verification error at address 1C2D. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xE0 
Verification error at address 1C2E. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xDE 
Verification error at address 1C2F. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xBF 
Verification error at address 1C30. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xCD 
Verification error at address 1C31. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xBF 
Verification error at address 1C32. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x10 
Verification error at address 1C33. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xE0 
Verification error at address 1C34. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xA0 
Verification error at address 1C35. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xE6 
Verification error at address 1C36. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xB0 
Verification error at address 1C37. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xE0 
Verification error at address 1C38. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xE8 
Verification error at address 1C39. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xEE 
Verification error at address 1C3B. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xE1 
Verification error at address 1C40. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x0D 
Verification error at address 1C41. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x92 
Verification error at address 1C42. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xA2 
Verification error at address 1C43. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x36 
Verification error at address 1C44. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xB1 
Verification error at address 1C45. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x07 
Verification error at address 1C46. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xD9 
Verification error at address 1C47. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xF7 
Verification error at address 1C48. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x11 
Verification error at address 1C49. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xE0 
Verification error at address 1C4A. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xA2 
Verification error at address 1C4B. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xE6 
Verification error at address 1C4C. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xB0 
Verification error at address 1C4D. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xE0 
Verification error at address 1C4E. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x01 
Verification error at address 1C4F. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xC0 
Verification error at address 1C50. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x1D 
Verification error at address 1C51. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x92 
Verification error at address 1C52. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xAA 
Verification error at address 1C53. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x36 
Verification error at address 1C54. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xB1 
Verification error at address 1C55. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x07 
Verification error at address 1C56. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xE1 
Verification error at address 1C57. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xF7 
Verification error at address 1C58. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x4F 
Verification error at address 1C59. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xC0 
Verification error at address 1C5A. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xD2 
Verification error at address 1C5B. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xCF 
Verification error at address 1C5C. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xEF 
Verification error at address 1C5D. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x92 
Verification error at address 1C80. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x08 
Verification error at address 1C81. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x07 
Verification error at address 1C82. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x80 
Verification error at address 1C83. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xE0 
Verification error at address 1C84. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x18 
Verification error at address 1C85. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x07 
Verification error at address 1C86. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x28 
Verification error at address 1C87. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xF0 
Verification error at address 1C88. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0xE0 
Verification error at address 1C89. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x91 
Verification error at address 1C8A. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x62 
Verification error at address 1C8B. Got: 0xFF  Expected: 0x00 
507 verification error(s).
First 100 shown.
Type 'C' when ready to continue with another chip ...

Do you have decoupling capacitors on Vcc? I had something similar a while back. You are communicating with the chip, but perhaps too fast to program it.

In my programming sketch, locate the line which says:

  // slow down SPI for benefit of slower processors like the Attiny
  SPI.setClockDivider (SPI_CLOCK_DIV64);

Try changing SPI_CLOCK_DIV64 to SPI_CLOCK_DIV128.

Re-upload that and see if that makes a difference.

[quote author=Nick Gammon link=topic=134097.msg1009750#msg1009750 date=1353893894]
Do you have decoupling capacitors on Vcc? I had something similar a while back. You are communicating with the chip, but perhaps too fast to program it.

In my programming sketch, locate the line which says:

  // slow down SPI for benefit of slower processors like the Attiny
  SPI.setClockDivider (SPI_CLOCK_DIV64);

Try changing SPI_CLOCK_DIV64 to SPI_CLOCK_DIV128.

Re-upload that and see if that makes a difference.
[/quote]i tried changing the code and re-uploading but no i didnt have decoupling capacitors attached, just put some in, and got a similar error, instead of 507 verification error(s). it had 235 verification error(s), so theres a difference but it also said the bootloader was 1024 instead of 512 like before

[quote author=Nick Gammon link=topic=134097.msg1009750#msg1009750 date=1353893894]
Try changing SPI_CLOCK_DIV64 to SPI_CLOCK_DIV128.
[/quote]this

avrdude: verification error, first mismatch at byte 0x2180
         0xff != 0x27

is my main concern, and what i think is the cause of the 500+ errors to begin with see tho it uploads just fine and works when i look at chips but doesnt wanna work with me, im gonna try using my brothers windows vista tomorrow and see if it works cuz all i need is the bootloaders changed and test programming them later, and it seems the lower i set the spi_clock the higher the error numbers go i set it to 2 and came up with 700+ errors tried setting it to 256 but is not declared so wont compile, where would i go to declare it? and will it damage the chip at all?

it also said the bootloader was 1024 instead of 512 like before

It probably misread the fuse, that's why.

You need short cable runs, decoupling capacitors (0.1 uF) more or less as in my photo.

If it still doesn't work can you take a photo? I'd like to see what you are doing.