Update on DASH7

A shield would be very cool, but it would be awesome if it had the breakout bits available too, so that more experienced users could actually use the shield stand-alone! As a protoboard. Two flies in one swat :slight_smile:
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Of course. I should point out that OpenTag is an RTOS Exokernel that could transparently run a Maple or Arduino Environment, if desired. I mention Maple because it's probably easiest to port STM32F to STM32L, although Arduino Due runs on a CM3 too. Technically, it should be possible to run, kill, or upload new sketches over wireless (or wire) during runtime, but there's still work to do.

I'll excitingly await some prototyping environment to play with dash7!

I dont get it why is important to spread this technology over the world FOR FREE (not propietary, open source stack) if you dont own HW manufacture designed to make only dash7-devices :slight_smile:

Why? Because luckly some people see beyond personal greed and gain.

To me, OSS is about sharing and surviving into the future. Knowledge is power and should be free for all to use.

On a more technical 'current' trend, interoperability. Having an open specification to a protocol is really nice to have, but if you have to join all sorts of alliances (that cost money) to even implement that 'open' standard, it's useless. Dash7 is fully open specification, with OpenTag being an opensource implementation of such. Having an open stack means it is very easy to build devices and integrated devices from different manufactures. How many 'standards' do we have noways that are proprietary but don't interoperate? Would you think the web would be a such a huge success without open standards and without Libre implementations of such? If Dash7 wants to succeed, it needs to be open and easily available.

sunfy:
I dont get it why is important to spread this technology over the world FOR FREE (not propietary, open source stack) if you dont own HW manufacture designed to make only dash7-devices :slight_smile:

Since you are curious: the business model works in the long term through partnerships in high volume enterprise and industrial applications, and in the short term through integration services. If you need to deploy a product in reasonable volumes, you will need to do regulatory, buy a manufacturer ID, arrange terms with the chip supplier, and do stuff like that -- partnership stuff that is the same with any standard for anything. If you are just doing hobby work or product pilots, then you don't need to worry about that stuff, so neither will we. It isn't even about lack-of-greed, I still want to make some money, but I realize I can do just as well with a small company in an open ecosystem as I can with a big company in a closed system.

jpnorair:
4. What HW is available?
There are some kits in development now, which have convenient hardware interfaces. Most use the TI CC430 as either the development target itself, or the CC430 as a network processor. Here is the kit I'm building. There are others, too, but I don't want to speak for the developers until they announce publicly themselves. If someone is interested, we can talk about making an Arduino shield. It should be really easy.

This looks like a very cool project/product/technology! I have a few basic questions, sorry they are so low level...

I had a look at the web page linked above and read this entire thread. Still, its not clear to me what's on that nice looking PCB. Is a CC430 a single SoC with both a micro-controller and a radio? If so, is it your openTag firmware implementing the DASH7 protocol that runs on the MCU, with the intention of being coupled to another uC than handles product specific functions?

Or can user specific code be placed on the CC430?

I saw the board has UART, I2C and SPI. Is this for talking to the external uC?

Will we need to write code for the CC430 and, if so, what development tools are needed for that (compiler and hardware programmer)?

Finally, is it possible to find a radio with higher transmit power to increase the range? I saw in this thread you were talking about 8dbm in comparison to the XBee pro, which claims a line of site range of about 6 miles I think? I realize the XBee uses much higher frequency, but why is the range of this only 0.62 miles? I assume the comparison is made with comparable bit rate. Is it an antenna issue or is this just not a valid comparison?

Thanks!

skyjumper:
I had a look at the web page linked above and read this entire thread. Still, its not clear to me what's on that nice looking PCB.

If you are talking about HayTag, the three chips are: RF (SPIRIT1), MCU (STM32L), Energy Harvesting IC. If you are talking about the USB stick, it uses MSP430F5503 and CC1101. It uses the 5503 in order to utilize the USB features of that chip. CC430 would be fine, too, but there would need to be a USB bridge. I prefer having more control over the USB.

Can user specific code be placed on the CC430?

Yes, although CC430 is not used on HayTag or the USB stick. OpenTag runs well on any MSP430F5 core, and CC430 is in that family. The STM32L port is underway. There is a somewhat out-of-date STM32F port, too. The STM32L port will have better ability to run Arduino [Due] or Maple environments for user code. C code or assembly projects can work on any of the platforms. Additionally, once the STM32L port is complete, it should be very easy to port that to Due HW.

I saw the board has UART, I2C and SPI. Is this for talking to the external uC?

For talking to whatever you want. All boards with OpenTag have an internal MCU that runs the stack and can run user code, too, if you want.

Will we need to write code for the CC430 and, if so, what development tools are needed for that (compiler and hardware programmer)?

You won't need anything unusual. You can find all the answers easily on the net.

Finally, is it possible to find a radio with higher transmit power to increase the range? I saw in this thread you were talking about 8dbm in comparison to the XBee pro, which claims a line of site range of about 6 miles I think? I realize the XBee uses much higher frequency, but why is the range of this only 0.62 miles? I assume the comparison is made with comparable bit rate. Is it an antenna issue or is this just not a valid comparison?

XBee Pro uses a lot of power in both TX and RX. Higher frequencies have less range by nature, so they require large amplification and thus require a ton of power. I don't know what power level achieves 10km line-of-sight range with DASH7, but it's much less. For HayTag get 1km in USA, non-line-of-sight, the test power is -2.4dBm (0.6mW). XBee pro is using 100mW. Big difference. In EU it's allowed to transmit with 10mW in 433MHz band, in China 5mW, in Australia 25mW... so USA is the lowest range, although I hear the FCC is changing unlicensed 433 to allow more power. The rumor is 2mW with some requirements for listen-before-talk (no problem for OpenTag).

OK, I've finished designing an Arduino-compatible DASH7 board. I'm sending it off to the fab. Let me know if you are interested, because that way I can better estimate quantities.

Bascially, it fits onto the end of a Uno or Due Arduino. Communication is via UART or I2C at up to 1Mbps. Of course, USB-CDC is also included, so that's an option if you are communicating with a USB host (such as a PC). I spent a lot of time designing the input to allow for a lot of I/O options, so there is a 30-pin card connector that exposes everything, an extra through-hole SWD connector for programming even if you have the card connector loaded, and the standard half-shield Arduino connections.

Power is a regulated 2.8V (3-5.5V input), or you can attach a 2xAlkaline pack directly to the Vdd. The electronics can go down to 2V, so subtract 0.2V for the Schottky, and you can take the alkaline cells down to 2.2V. This is almost all the way to the bottom of their discharge curve. I chose 2.8V because it allows a Li-Ion cell to get discharged almost all the way to its bottom, and it is high enough to work with 3.3V IO. This board will not instantly work with 5V IO. It is 5V tolerant, but your 5V Arduino will not be able to detect the 2.8V signals unless you install/configure pull-up resistors. There seem to be plenty of tutorials on converting Arduino to 3.3V, or alternatively there are plenty of 3.3V Arduino models to buy.

The MCU is a 48pin STM32L15x. These come in many sizes, from 32/10 to 384/32. If anyone is interested in helping me port libmaple to STM32L (it shouldn't be too hard), then this could be a Wiring/Arduino platform in its own right. Right now, you will need to know C to write an application that runs on the STM32L.

I have interest, in the arduino shield, or this board, or even the schematic project. About the programmable work that you will have, I hope contribute with, so keep contact when you want.

OK, the first boards are in. Check it out!

I'm new to Dash7, but am very interested in this technology and its use in home automation, and would like to work with this prototype module and contribute to the project.

Are any of these modules still available?

skyjumper:
Are any of these modules still available?

No, but we will most likely be doing another run sometime later in the year, before HayTag goes live.

That would be great, thanks. I like that you included so many options for talking to it. My personal favorite is I2C. Will this board be able to talk to your Haytags?

skyjumper:
That would be great, thanks. I like that you included so many options for talking to it. My personal favorite is I2C. Will this board be able to talk to your Haytags?

Yes, they can talk to HayTags, although HayTags in private use will probably have most of the data secured by encryption keys that you don't have. If you buy some HayTags of your own, you can configure them to use no encryption, or just copy the key into this dev kit. This can be done during runtime, i.e. it is not necessary to compile the keys into the image.

jpnorair:

skyjumper:
That would be great, thanks. I like that you included so many options for talking to it. My personal favorite is I2C. Will this board be able to talk to your Haytags?

Yes, they can talk to HayTags, although HayTags in private use will probably have most of the data secured by encryption keys that you don't have. If you buy some HayTags of your own, you can configure them to use no encryption, or just copy the key into this dev kit. This can be done during runtime, i.e. it is not necessary to compile the keys into the image.

That's what I meant. I want to buy some Haytags and have a way of tracking them with my own hardware. Any idea when this might all be available?

Availability is later this year. HayTag will not be available until Q4. The dev kits should arrive at about the same time for the general public, or earlier if you are a strategic partner.

+1 for more DASH7 arduino shields. Let us know when you have some to sell.

nikpetroff:
+1 for more DASH7 arduino shields. Let us know when you have some to sell.

Given the recent success of the Flutter campaign, I might do a kickstarter campaign for our Jupiter board. I think I would need to offer a more compelling open source toolchain and Arduino/Maple library as an API.

Anyway, please email me if you're interested in contributing. I think we need the following additions in order to have a compelling kickstarted campaign:

  • Open source GCC toolchain and makefile, perhaps based on Summon-ARM-Toolchain and OpenOCD, but anything with GCC and an open source JTAG is fine with me.
  • An Arduino Library for interfacing over UART using OpenTag's binary protocol and messaging APIs.
  • Optionally, a port job of Maple onto STM32L so that sketches can run directly on the Jupiter shield board.

You can find my contact information on this webpage. If I think you would be a good fit for the project, we'll work together to get those points accomplished and arrange a cut of the project sales for you to take as compensation for your efforts.