ATTiny85 arduinoisp problem

Sorry for the super long delay between posts, school work has kept me busy until I passed out everynight lol. Here is my avrdude report:

C:\Users\>C:\Users\Documents\PCB_Projects\arduino-0022\arduino-0022\h
ardware/tools/avr/bin/avrdude -CC:\Users\Documents\PCB_Projects\arduino-00
22\arduino-0022\hardware/tools/avr/etc/avrdude.conf -v -v -v  -pattiny85 -cstk50
0v1 -P\\.\COM14

avrdude: Version 5.4-arduino, compiled on Oct 11 2007 at 19:12:32
         Copyright (c) 2000-2005 Brian Dean, http://www.bdmicro.com/

         System wide configuration file is "C:\Users\Documents\arduino-0022\arduino-0022\hardware/tools/avr/etc/avrdude.conf"

         Using Port            : \\.\COM14
         Using Programmer      : stk500v1
avrdude: ser_open(): setting dtr
         AVR Part              : ATtiny85
         Chip Erase delay      : 4500 us
         PAGEL                 : P00
         BS2                   : P00
         RESET disposition     : possible i/o
         RETRY pulse           : SCK
         serial program mode   : yes
         parallel program mode : yes
         Timeout               : 200
         StabDelay             : 100
         CmdexeDelay           : 25
         SyncLoops             : 32
         ByteDelay             : 0
         PollIndex             : 3
         PollValue             : 0x53
         Memory Detail         :

                                  Block Poll               Page
      Polled
           Memory Type Mode Delay Size  Indx Paged  Size   Size #Pages MinW  Max
W   ReadBack
           ----------- ---- ----- ----- ---- ------ ------ ---- ------ ----- ---
-- ---------
           eeprom        65     6     4    0 no        512    4      0  4000  45
00 0xff 0xff
                                  Block Poll               Page
      Polled
           Memory Type Mode Delay Size  Indx Paged  Size   Size #Pages MinW  Max
W   ReadBack
           ----------- ---- ----- ----- ---- ------ ------ ---- ------ ----- ---
-- ---------
           flash         65     6    32    0 yes      8192   64    128  4500  45
00 0xff 0xff
                                  Block Poll               Page
      Polled
           Memory Type Mode Delay Size  Indx Paged  Size   Size #Pages MinW  Max
W   ReadBack
           ----------- ---- ----- ----- ---- ------ ------ ---- ------ ----- ---
-- ---------
           signature      0     0     0    0 no          3    0      0     0
 0 0x00 0x00
                                  Block Poll               Page
      Polled
           Memory Type Mode Delay Size  Indx Paged  Size   Size #Pages MinW  Max
W   ReadBack
           ----------- ---- ----- ----- ---- ------ ------ ---- ------ ----- ---
-- ---------
           lock           0     0     0    0 no          1    0      0  9000  90
00 0x00 0x00
                                  Block Poll               Page
      Polled
           Memory Type Mode Delay Size  Indx Paged  Size   Size #Pages MinW  Max
W   ReadBack
           ----------- ---- ----- ----- ---- ------ ------ ---- ------ ----- ---
-- ---------
           lfuse          0     0     0    0 no          1    0      0  9000  90
00 0x00 0x00
                                  Block Poll               Page
      Polled
           Memory Type Mode Delay Size  Indx Paged  Size   Size #Pages MinW  Max
W   ReadBack
           ----------- ---- ----- ----- ---- ------ ------ ---- ------ ----- ---
-- ---------
           hfuse          0     0     0    0 no          1    0      0  9000  90
00 0x00 0x00
                                  Block Poll               Page
      Polled
           Memory Type Mode Delay Size  Indx Paged  Size   Size #Pages MinW  Max
W   ReadBack
           ----------- ---- ----- ----- ---- ------ ------ ---- ------ ----- ---
-- ---------
           efuse          0     0     0    0 no          1    0      0  9000  90
00 0x00 0x00
                                  Block Poll               Page
      Polled
           Memory Type Mode Delay Size  Indx Paged  Size   Size #Pages MinW  Max
W   ReadBack
           ----------- ---- ----- ----- ---- ------ ------ ---- ------ ----- ---
-- ---------
           calibration    0     0     0    0 no          2    0      0     0
 0 0x00 0x00

         Programmer Type : STK500
         Description     : Atmel STK500 Version 1.x firmware
         Hardware Version: 3
         Firmware Version: 3.3
         Vtarget         : 0.3 V
         Varef           : 0.3 V
         Oscillator      : 28.800 kHz
         SCK period      : 3.3 us

avrdude: please define PAGEL and BS2 signals in the configuration file for part
ATtiny85
avrdude: AVR device initialized and ready to accept instructions

Reading | ################################################## | 100% 0.02s

avrdude: Device signature = 0x1e950f
avrdude: Expected signature for ATtiny85 is 1E 93 0B
         Double check chip, or use -F to override this check.

avrdude done.  Thank you.

did you do -F?

did you do -F?

The dash-F option should never be necessary. Having to use it is an indication of another problem (like faulty wiring).

But, at this point, it may be is not worth trying until 92_foxgt has confirmed that AVRDUDE can communicate with his ATtiny85 processor.

92_foxgt:
Sorry for the super long delay between posts, school work has kept me busy until I passed out everynight lol. Here is my avrdude report:

No need to apologize. If you get it working and don't follow-up then you need to apologize! :wink:

avrdude: Device signature = 0x1e950f
avrdude: Expected signature for ATtiny85 is 1E 93 0B

From the ATmega328 datasheet...

  Part         Signature Bytes
  ATmega328P   0x1E 0x95 0x0F

Your processor is responding that it's a 328. Are you certain that you've correctly loaded the Arduino ISP Sketch and disabled auto-reset?

No kidding... doesn't mean that it never works. It can be very helpful in debugging.

It can be very helpful in debugging

In 92_foxgt's case? Even though the 328 processor on his Arduino is very likely what responded to AVRDUDE?

Perhaps not, but it would certainly provide useful information.

Also, did you really -karma me? :expressionless:

Perhaps not

I agree.

but it would certainly provide useful information

Once all other problems have been resolved, maybe.

Also, did you really -karma me?

No. Would you like me to?

Lol, sorry, not sure who else would have... :~

Also, how would the arduinoISP try to program itself? Because it sounds like that's what you mean...

Also, how would the arduinoISP try to program itself?

The bootloader responds to AVRDUDE instead of the Arduino ISP Sketch. If autoreset is not disabled, the bootloader runs instead of te Arduino ISP Sketch. From AVRDUDE's perspective there is no difference. For our perspective there's a huge difference!

But the bootloader does not send the device ID, does it? Does the bootloader mimic the built-in serial interface?

But the bootloader does not send the device ID, does it?

I have no idea if it does or not. AVRDUDE gets rather annoyed if the ID is not available or is not the expected value so I assume the bootloader has to send the processor's ID to satiate AVRDUDE.

Does the bootloader mimic the built-in serial interface?

By "built-in serial interface" I assume you mean the interface provided by the processor. In which case, I have no idea. I don't know anything about the on-processor interface.

I was not aware that the arduino IDE used AVRDUDE to upload programs. I thought the whole point of the bootloader was that you didn't need to use ICSP, considering that the arduino IDE uses serial to upload stuff... It just seems astronomically unlikely to me that the two protocols would line up so conveniently.

I was not aware that the arduino IDE used AVRDUDE to upload programs

It does. Hold the Shift key and click the Upload button.

I thought the whole point of the bootloader was that you didn't need to use ICSP

That is one of the points of a bootloader.

considering that the arduino IDE uses serial to upload stuff...

The IDE uses AVRDUDE to perform an upload. AVRDUDE communicates with the bootloader through a serial connection.

It just seems astronomically unlikely to me that the two protocols would line up so conveniently

What would be accomplished by making one protocol for the bootloader and a different protocol for an ISP?

lol @ the misinformation here.... the IDE is just a wrapper for the avrdude program. the icsp pins on the uno are the six pins mounted right next to the chip. The usb port uses serial communication, I have a breadboard arduino and the only things hooked up to the FTDI cable are the serial ports, power, ground, and the auto reset pin. like Coding_Badly said, hold shift and click upload for any sketch and you see the avrdude output.

I had the auto reset disabled, but then I get sync errors. So I unplugged the reset wire, and still had issues, i have to hold the reset button on the uno and then let go when avrdude tried connecting to get anything now... who knows...

foxgt, no one here is misinformed... I'm not stupid, I've used ICSP and the arduino serial protocol, I know how these things work. What perplexes me is the fact that they (apparently) chose to make a bootloader for the sole purpose of using the default ICSP protocol over asynchronous serial. Using the default protocol literally takes 1 more pin, saves kilobytes of code and probably lots of time. Is there really any tangible gain to doing this? I can't think of any...

I never called anyone stupid...
Two things:

  1. I have been able to write to the attiny85 using the arduino IDE, I just have to perform a manual erase with avrdude...

  2. the -F doesn't really seem necessary if I can write to the chip without it... I don't think I can make the IDE use it by default, so it really won't save me any trouble.

I think this might be related to my laptop, it seems like others seem to have success with it... I'll try my desktop and see what happens, both are Windows 7 machines, but the laptop isn't cutting edge by any means...

92_foxgt:
I had the auto reset disabled, but then I get sync errors. So I unplugged the reset wire, and still had issues,

You will. Autoreset has to be disabled or the Arduino will not function as an ISP.

i have to hold the reset button on the uno and then let go when avrdude tried connecting to get anything now...

In which case, the bootloader is responding.

Give these a look...
http://www.arduino.cc/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1295386772
http://www.arduino.cc/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1267120897/all

I've found a few places that recommend a 110 ohm resistor. Try that.

lol... correct me if im wrong...To disable the auto reset I'm using two 220 ohm resistors in parallel, but that is when I get the sync errors. Two 220 ohm resistors in parallel is equivalent to 110 ohms... 1/(1/220 + 1/220).

I looked through those posts... I hadn't thought about putting a cap as well as the 5v to it... I'll try that as well and see if it helps me get around the sync errors I guess

edit: oops, thought I mentioned the 220 ohm resistors earlier, added that

If you have a serial cable with a level shifter (i.e. MAX232) you can just use that. Sine you only connect the Tx & Rx to the Arduino you will not get the reset. The ArduinoISP won't work if it resets when you load the sketch into the ATtiny. (Maybe you know that or am doing something else, reading this I'm a little confused.)
:zipper_mouth_face: