Arduino Forum

Community => Products and Services => Topic started by: wwbrown on Aug 22, 2012, 04:51 pm

Title: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: wwbrown on Aug 22, 2012, 04:51 pm
I recently was directed to this site http://oshpark.com/, it may have been someone on this site who told me about it.  The cost for a two layer board is $5 per sq inch for three boards, shipping is included.  Boards must be ordered in multiples of 3, your boards are panelized with others they seem to have the volume to send out a panel each day.

I sent them a simple design for a bare bones ATTINY2313 header board, and 10 days later I had the boards in hand and they looked and functioned great.  Today I sent them a design for an instrumentation amp board for a project that included a load cell, the charge on these three boards was $4.44.  I would have ordered more than 3 of the instrumentation boards except it was a new design and it may need some mods.  No loss as anytime I want more of any boards I have purchased from them the files are on their site and I can log in and place an order anytime I want.

They also do 4-layer boards, the cost is more and I do not think they send a panel out each day, if interested check their site out.
Title: Re: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: JoeN on Aug 22, 2012, 10:58 pm
$5 for square inch for 3?

I'm no expert on PCB manufacture but iteadstudio does 5cm x 10cm two layer boards for $22 for 10.  5cm x 10cm = 1.97in x 3.94in (7.762in2) which is $38.80 for 3.

http://imall.iteadstudio.com/open-pcb/pcb-prototyping.html
http://pickandplace.wordpress.com/2011/09/10/testing-itead-studio-pcb-service/

This service looks good only if you are going to do small boards.  It gets expensive fast.

Title: Re: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: wwbrown on Sep 14, 2012, 06:22 am
The quicker turnaround than itead or iseed is what I really like, yes if you are producing any numbers the price hurts.
Title: Re: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: frank26080115 on Sep 14, 2012, 07:58 am
I'm usually a fan of SeeedStudio but recently I've seen some comparisons between these three services (SeeedStudio, iTeadStudio, OSH Park), and OSH Park seems to have much better quality.

Read about the comparison here: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/paulstoffregen/teensy-30-32-bit-arm-cortex-m4-usable-in-arduino-a/posts/305527

My next project might actually use 6 mil trace and spacing and 13 mil drills, I might need to use OSH Park to guarantee that the PCB actually works.
Title: Re: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: CrossRoads on Sep 14, 2012, 08:01 am
I use 8 mil trace and 12 mil drills with itead all the time, never any quality or working issues.
Title: Re: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: iteadstudio on Sep 17, 2012, 11:14 am

I use 8 mil trace and 12 mil drills with itead all the time, never any quality or working issues.


@CrossRoads: Thanks a lot for your support to our company, we are very glad to be at your service!

To others who wonder where to get your pcb manufactured: http://imall.iteadstudio.com/open-pcb/pcb-prototyping.html

Speaking of pcb, then maybe i should mention our small batch pcb service as well: http://imall.iteadstudio.com/open-pcb/small-batches-pcb.html

Best regards,

Wendy
Title: Re: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: xl97 on Sep 17, 2012, 07:07 pm
I too use iTeadStudio, and have YET to have a problem with my boards

edit:
<update>
they have been terrible lately (Feb/March 2013)...   no emails, no communication, no pcb's, no tracking numbers...etc..

had to file paypal dispute with them.....

random comments about having lost my order, found my order, said it had shipped or will ship that day several times, said they cant ship FEDEX now.. are using DHL.. will 'ship today'..  they are moving office.....  PayPal notification was broke....  the list goes on.

After I ordered, and paid...I went back to iTead website..and there wasnt even an order entry in my order history page..  (although got order# from itead and Paypal trans id#.)

VERY un-happy with them

</update>








(thanks CrossRoads & Royce for the recommendation to use them)


5cm x 5cm for 10 pcbs'  = $10.00

hard to beat.
Title: Re: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: LROBBINS on Oct 11, 2012, 01:25 pm
I am JEALOUS.  I haven't found any PCB shop here in Italy that will do prototypes for anywhere near those prices.  If anyone has any suggestions,I'd love to have them. 

Sono invidioso.  Non sono riuscito a trovare nessuna dita qui in Italia disposto a fare PCB per prezzi simili.  Se qualcuno avesse dei suggerimenti, mi piacerebbe averli.

Lenni Robbins (Siena)
Title: Re: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: xl97 on Oct 11, 2012, 03:29 pm
Does it have to be in Italy?

I dont live in China.. and I still order from/use iTeadStudio...

Title: Re: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: LROBBINS on Oct 26, 2012, 08:15 am
Thanks.  I've now done the same.  Their price was extraordinarily low, now I just have to wait the 3-4 weels for the postal service to get it here.  Ciao, Lenny
Title: Re: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: Leon Heller on Oct 26, 2012, 12:13 pm
I've ordered three sets of boards from ITead, and am very happy with their service. They typically take about three or four days to get them made (they use the same board manufacturer as Seeed) and shipping to the UK takes about another week or so, so I usually get my boards in about 10 days to two weeks. Seeed has been getting lots of complaints on their forum about their PCB service.
Title: Re: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: LROBBINS on Oct 26, 2012, 01:56 pm
Mail from China to Italy generally takes a LOT longer, but that's OK - I'm not in a great rush.  I need 2 tiny boards (ca. 1.5 x 2 cm) and I'll end up with 20 at a unit cost of near zero.  Ciao, Lenny
Title: Re: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: liuzengqiang on Oct 28, 2012, 06:41 pm


I use 8 mil trace and 12 mil drills with itead all the time, never any quality or working issues.


@CrossRoads: Thanks a lot for your support to our company, we are very glad to be at your service!

To others who wonder where to get your pcb manufactured: http://imall.iteadstudio.com/open-pcb/pcb-prototyping.html

Speaking of pcb, then maybe i should mention our small batch pcb service as well: http://imall.iteadstudio.com/open-pcb/small-batches-pcb.html

Best regards,

Wendy


Wendy,

You are crtainly not welcome from me! I dumped hundreds of dollars at your PCB services. Quality aside, your pricing for larger quantity (100-200) was confusing and differ with different people I emailed. I decided to not order from you anymore a year ago. I have also used seeed itead and laem. None of them failed at quality of my simple boards. Laem is a lot more expensive when I was using it, over a year ago. They have fab connection in USA, not necessarily meaning better precision or faster turn around, a year ago. Seeedstudio had better selection of options than itead but itead soon copy catted. Both seeed and itead take three weeks or more from design submission to receiving boards. Seeed has free shipping over $50 but itead didn't and I don't care now.
Title: Re: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: xl97 on Oct 28, 2012, 07:16 pm
trying to 'weed' through to some facts here...

1.) you havent ordered from itead in over a year?  is this correct?  (Im unclear)


2.) what exactly (if any) were the problems with your board(s)?

quality?
cost? (confusing for large qty)?
shipping time?
costs that changed per person you talked to?  (that would be a bit bothersome to me as well)


Im (again) unclear.. as to what was the 'con' when YOU used itead?

I just ordered 3 new designs/pcbs from them (itead)..

Title: Re: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: liuzengqiang on Oct 28, 2012, 07:41 pm

costs that changed per person you talked to?  (that would be a bit bothersome to me as well


You ever tried to order 200 small boards with them? I just don't want any of that experience anymore, give it a year or more, period. If you were promised a price and then told another later, you should stay away from the seller. So for the order you paid, were you given free shipping for order over $50? Seeedstudio does this. I started with seeed and later discovered itead because they were cheaper. That was when neither they had any service for more than 10 pcs so I had to email them to negotiate a price for 100-200 pcs. Itead won out with less cost and I made some purchases with then, until they became confusing with different people saying different prices and eventually annoyed me enough to go back to seeed. That clear enough for you now?
Title: Re: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: xl97 on Oct 28, 2012, 08:11 pm
no I have not tried to order 200+ board from them..  (all mine have been the 5x5-10pc orders more or less..)

all my shipping has been in the $5.00-$8.00 range.. (not free.. was that advertised? or told to you over the phone?  or your just bringing up/mentioning that seeed does that as a plus for them?..and not really a 'neg' for itead?)

seems like this was a while back (since they didnt even offer these larger batches to be purchased on the store front).. but the two different price thing would have been a turn off for me as well.

I have been wanting to give seeed a chance myself at least once.. but the prices on my small batches of pcb has always been lowest from itead.
Title: Re: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: CrossRoads on Oct 28, 2012, 08:15 pm
You should try itead again liudr - they have "small batch" pricing  now for 50-300 pieces.
I've ordered 50 pieces a couple of times with no problems.
Title: Re: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: liuzengqiang on Oct 28, 2012, 08:35 pm

no I have not tried to order 200+ board from them..  (all mine have been the 5x5-10pc orders more or less..)

all my shipping has been in the $5.00-$8.00 range.. (not free.. was that advertised? or told to you over the phone?  or your just bringing up/mentioning that seeed does that as a plus for them?..and not really a 'neg' for itead?)

seems like this was a while back (since they didnt even offer these larger batches to be purchased on the store front).. but the two different price thing would have been a turn off for me as well.

I have been wanting to give seeed a chance myself at least once.. but the prices on my small batches of pcb has always been lowest from itead.


Seeed has free shipping for $50 for as long as I know them. You don't order enough so certainly this has not come up for you at check out. Remember if you do order more than the lowest quantity, just a couple of 10*10 designs will be $50. Shipping a couple hundred boards is around 30-40 at itead but still free at seeed. IDK where your price info came from but they have the same exact price except you pay shippinf with itead even for $50 orders.

@crossroads, I check itead price every time I order from seeed. They are not cheaper for 50-200 pcs. they are the same as seeed and they don't offer free shipping as seeed does. Unless Wendy is just an avertar I know I don't want to talk with Wendy from itead anymore.
Title: Re: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: jwatte on Oct 28, 2012, 09:10 pm
I use itead for quantity-10 orders, and it's fine, except for when they go on week-long breaks :-) (new years, fall festival, etc...) They do clearly communicate when this will happen, so it's not a surprise, just an inconvenience.

OSH Park is the productization of "Laen's dorkbot order" and I've used that too. Those boards are super nice -- gold finish, deep purple solder mask, 6 mil precision. A little more expensive for the total order of the bigger boards I make, though. Note that I don't need the 10 boards I get from ITEAD -- 3 is plenty per test design for me, but ITEAD is still a cheaper and faster option even when I toss the extra boards I don't need ;-)

When I order from ITEAD, I pay the extra $28 for DHL shipping, and the boards ship in 2-3 days after they're done, so I often have less than 10 days turn-around. Order monday morning, get next tuesday. The ITEAD people will also include devices in the same shipping if I buy them (nRF24L01+ boards etc.) So, $38 for 10x 4sqin boards -- a little more than laen for the order (less per board,) but faster. $50 for 10x 8sqin boards is cheaper, and the bigger the boards get, the better the price gets. Although if laen could deliver within 10 days, that might still be a nice option. (Last I ordered there, I had a 3 week wait before I got the boards, and I'm an impatient man...)
Title: Re: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: liuzengqiang on Oct 28, 2012, 09:16 pm

When I order from ITEAD, I pay the extra $28 for DHL shipping, and the boards ship in 2-3 days after they're done, so I often have less than 10 days turn-around. Order monday morning, get next tuesday.


Thanks for the info. If I have impatient clients, I will ask them to pay the extra shipping to get the boards faster.
Title: Re: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: Texy on Nov 05, 2012, 01:26 pm
I,ve used itead a number of times now since Crossroads introduced them to me a year or so ago. I,ve not had them deliver to the UK in under 3 weeks, but thats my choice - the price and quality are good for me.
However I have a design where I need 25mm x 50mm. I already ordered the same design and doubled them up on a 50 x 50mm pcb, but I,m struggling to cut them in half with the tools (or lack of) I have at home - 1.6mm is surprisingly thick when you try and cut it! So if I ordered from itead a 25mm x 50mm design, but under the 50mm x 50mm ordering code, would I received just 10 pcb's and effectively waste half the order, or would they supply twice as much, ie 20 pcbs?

Thanks,
Texy
Title: Re: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: liuzengqiang on Nov 05, 2012, 03:40 pm

I,ve used itead a number of times now since Crossroads introduced them to me a year or so ago. I,ve not had them deliver to the UK in under 3 weeks, but thats my choice - the price and quality are good for me.
However I have a design where I need 25mm x 50mm. I already ordered the same design and doubled them up on a 50 x 50mm pcb, but I,m struggling to cut them in half with the tools (or lack of) I have at home - 1.6mm is surprisingly thick when you try and cut it! So if I ordered from itead a 25mm x 50mm design, but under the 50mm x 50mm ordering code, would I received just 10 pcb's and effectively waste half the order, or would they supply twice as much, ie 20 pcbs?

Thanks,
Texy


Yes to itead or seeed. They don't charge per area but charge per predefined area. It is wasting money and material but that is the only way they can offer low price. If you make more than 100 boards, you should email them to see if they are open to negotiate price down. Everyone fits within a predefind box so they can easily and quickly fill up a large board for printing. Hope if you do come to negotiating, your experince is better than mine.
Title: Re: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: skootles on Nov 05, 2012, 05:54 pm

So if I ordered from itead a 25mm x 50mm design, but under the 50mm x 50mm ordering code, would I received just 10 pcb's and effectively waste half the order, or would they supply twice as much, ie 20 pcbs?

No, you would get 10 PCBs. If you want to get 20, you would either double-up or add another 10 PCBs to your order. If you want to cut them, invest in a scroll saw or a dremel. I just cut some of mine this past weekend and had no problem with the scroll saw.
Title: Re: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: CrossRoads on Nov 05, 2012, 05:59 pm
Visit your local hardware store and pick up a hacksaw, works great for cutting in half also.
They might inquire with you about the duplicate design on the board, but as along as you're not adding a row of holes or similar down the middle they'll likely make it for you.
Title: Re: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: jwatte on Nov 05, 2012, 07:21 pm
Quote
I,m struggling to cut them in half with the tools (or lack of) I have at home - 1.6mm is surprisingly thick when you try and cut it! So if I ordered from itead a 25mm x 50mm design, but under the 50mm x 50mm ordering code, would I received just 10 pcb's and effectively waste half the order, or would they supply twice as much, ie 20 pcbs?


Yes, you would "waste" that area.

A hacksaw actually cuts PCBs just fine, if you cut along the flat area. If you try to cut on the edge, it doesn't work very well.
Just put the PCB on a corner of a workbench, lay the hacksaw flat across the line you want to cut, and saw; takes only a minute!

(http://bansalbtechlearning.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Hacksaw-Frame.jpg)
Title: Re: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: Texy on Nov 05, 2012, 08:06 pm
Thanks guys. I will give that a go ;-)
Texy
Title: Re: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: liuzengqiang on Nov 06, 2012, 02:37 am
The fiber dust from rapidly rotating tools is bad to your lungs. Hack saw is probably safer.
Title: Re: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: xl97 on Feb 28, 2013, 01:51 pm
update for me:


iTeadStudio = F

(I am completely, 100%,  PISSED OFF right now too!)


my last order had some problems with them.. (shipping slow.. but not even emailing me telling me anything, accepted?  completed?  shipped?.... apologized..moved on)..

now I have placed another order.. (over chinese new year)..  so I new it wouldnt start until 17th of Feb....

Since then.. I ordered, paid.. and there is no entry/order history in my account on the website..?? (no order history)
although they have taken the money from PayPal account?

No emails...  

I emailed asking about the order? why not showing up? status?..etc.. got 1 reply saying  (quoted)  "Sorry about this condition. We've checked with the transation ID and it's received. And we've fabricated all the files. Sorry for the long delay and we will ship your order today or tomorrow."


I have emailed using their contact forms, help forms, on-line emails.. and Sunny, John & Wendy directly..

all emails have gone without any responses......(zero)

NO emails to say designs were accepted, designs were done..   designs were shipped.. and no tracking number!!
To top it all off.. I paid for the fast $29.00 FEDEX shipping too!.. but since the order was lost, not done in time and no communication was given.. that was a complete waste too!


Just an FYI people.. iTeadStudio custom server/quality has left the building!  

I hate feeling 'burned' liek this.. (espeically when I have posted good reviews about them in the past, and have sent many customers/friends there to get pcbs done too)  

well all thats stops now.. no more support form me until they can fix this:

I suggest using:

SeeedStudio -
(very similar to iTeadStudio)
http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/fusion-pcb-service-p-835.html

Sitopway (Technology Limited) -
(new, but has bigger pcb size for their smallest package/cost compared to the two above)
http://www.sitopway.com/en/index.php



again iTeadStudio = terrible service lately!!  


(seems like every since iMall took over.. things have been crap)

Wendy, Sunny, John & Sales @iteadstudio.com  can all be fired as far as Im concerned...

Not one of them can or have done their job.

Completely, un-professional...

go somewhere else, that will actually email you back or delivery your product to you.


iteadStudio (as of now) = thieves & liars..
Title: Re: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: Leon Heller on Feb 28, 2013, 10:12 pm
People seem to have more problems with Seeed. I've been very happy with ITead, I've used them three times and haven't had any problems.
Title: Re: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: xl97 on Feb 28, 2013, 10:19 pm
I havent had any problems with iTead in the past either.. except for minor communication problem last order (their fault).. and now this order which is a HUGE problem..(again their fault)

Usually Im ok with problems as long as communication is great...  (shit happens ya know) ;)

but this is terrible, complete lack of customer service!...

no email saying the boards were accepted?
no email saying they were done?
no email for the shipping/tracking number?

No entry fr it in my order history on THEIR website?


I had initial contact the first day or two things went wrong...

getting ANY reply after that to see if things have been fixed?  a status update?  anything...   has resulted in ZERO response.




Title: Re: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: BillO on Mar 02, 2013, 11:51 pm
I'll have to say I've had very good luck with Sitopway.  Especially on large orders.  Their prices for 10 5cm x 5cm boards may not be as sweet as some of the other shops (who farm it out to folks like Sitopway anyway).  The only complaint that I have ever had about them is that when you get them to do assembly, they don't always clean the boards properly.  But this I can live with as I just pop them in the ultra-sonic cleaner here an in a few minutes they are sparkling.
Title: Re: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: JoeN on Mar 03, 2013, 09:23 am
Getting back to the original house - OSH Park.  I've used them three times now and I have to say their quality is top notch and I really like the way their online system works with showing you previews of the boards.  The previews are spot on.  I've been designing the boards with DipTrace and it works great with OSH Park.  This tutorial has been my guide:  http://kuzyatech.com/diptrace-osh-park
Title: Re: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: geekpcbguy on Sep 12, 2013, 09:14 pm
OSH Park is great, the only thing I don't like is the lead time. I usually need boards faster. I have used

http://www.4pcb.com/
http://www.pcbunlimited.com/
http://www.sunstone.com/
http://www.pentalogix.com/

Prices are higher than OSH Park, but I get them in the time I need to meet deadlines for the people I work for, and quality in all of them has been great. The best customer services probably from Pentalogix.

Regards
Title: Re: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: xl97 on Oct 08, 2013, 04:57 am
Just used SEED studios as well as Elecrow for the first time for both..

was trying to compare to iTead/iMall... when I need an odd size they didnt offer in a small batch pcb (5cm x 10cm)

SEED had that size in small batches of 10.. cheaper than i could get from iTead for only 5 pcbs..

I had some other pcbs I needed to order.. in my usually 5cm x 5cm sizes.....  so i decided to use Elecrow, because of their posting here....  and because they give you FREE color pcb's..

I can say that all 3 are more or less the same as far as board quality goes.. Im not sure if it OSH Park quality..but I think they are good...  GREAT even for the price.

iTead told me they would have met the SEEED price if I was a better customer (which up until now, i had only ever used itead before.. so go figure?)

SEEED had decent shipping..

Elecrow has free color, good communication on the status of your order (and send pics of your pcb's when done/shipping)

I will probably stick with Elecrow for now, as its more or less the same as iTead, they seem to want your business, and color is free.. (which i really enjoy)..

Title: Re: Great PCB House for Prototyping
Post by: Riva on Oct 08, 2013, 11:08 am
Has anybody used Ragworm (http://www.ragworm.eu/)? I think they are quite new but hope someone UK/EU based has used them.