Dremel vs Proxxon for PCB fabrication

Hello,

does anybody have experience on Dremel or Proxxon rotary tools for PCB fabrication?

It seems that Proxxon is more precise and with a better stand. Any advice on particular models?

I' ll use the tool both for drilling and cooper board cutting

Ta
mDSP

I have been using a Proxxon miller for PCBs
http://www.arduino.cc/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1278335827
With good results but I haven't done much with a Dremel. A lot depends on the tool used (see link).
Are you planning to use the tools by hand or in some sort of CNC machine?

I am thinking of
either

Precision drill/grinder
FBS 240/E

or

Professional drill/grinder
IB/E

I am going to use them with the corresponding stand

No, I won't biuld a CNC. I am just going to cut copper boards and srill them with the drill attached to a stand.

Dremel is quite cheap compared to Proxxon, possibly another indication that Proxxon is more professional and precise.

Thanks for the reply

I am not sure how you will do it. Cutting PCB tracks with a drill by hand is not going to be possible. What sort of track width are you after?

and srill them

Sorry don't know what srill means.

Sorry I did not make it clear, I just want to cut the external size of the board (not the traces). I am using the ferric chloride etching method with toner transfer process.

srill, ha ha... sorry I meant drill!!!

Will a 12V machine do the job? they seem to be more flexible for other operations but I am concerned about the power they have. Maybe I have to send Proxxon an email directly.

P.S. By the way, your work is impressive. Are you a musician?

Thank you

Hey mDSP

I want to do exactly the same. I'm etching the boards but want to cut to size/drill holes as neatly as possible. I don't want to spend too much as I'm investing in a CNC machine later in the year (lumenlab.com - lumenlab Resources and Information.).

I'm leaning towards Proxxon because I find their website easier to navigate more than anything. Like you I also read that the Proxxon is more accurate as they have less vibration. They're a nice colour too!

I think either are powerful enough, there's quite a few related videos on YouTube.

Shall we both post our findings here?

Jim

This is the drill stand I'm looking at

Notice that the collar can turn through 90o. If the board could be slid accurately across it's path (with this maybe PROXXON - The fine tool company) then I guess you have an upside down table saw! In fact in the picture they show the Proxxon with a circular blade.

12v is to weak, using it is like using a sponge to hammer the nail

I get it now sorry.
For cutting out PCBs I use the Proxxon bench saw:-

Although for fibreglass boards you have to get the ceramic blade which is expensive. I have a jig saw as well

That will do fibre glass boards but the blades break very easily.
If you use a cut off disc you don't need a stand.

Try and use SRBP in place of fibre glass boards as they produce much less ware on the tools and although their strength is not as good they will do for most applications.

P.S. Are you a musician?

No I just like sounds. My son is though.
http://www.vimeo.com/2241880

Try and use SRBP in place of fibre glass boards as they produce much less ware on the tools and although their strength is not as good they will do for most applications.

Otherwise known as "FR-2" (vs FR-4 - fiberglass PCB):

Grumpy_Mike, how is the quality of the Proxxon kit? Every time I look at their products, they always seem to have a "cheap" look to them; like they are made of plastic and aluminum or such. They certainly don't have a price to match that look, so it may just be a false perception of mine.

As another suggestion for possible small tooling for PCBs, I have recently started to wonder about devices like the Unimat (and its cheaper copy by the Chinese company Xendoll)...

:slight_smile:

I find them top quality, they are plastic and aluminium but they are precise miniature tools. You certainly don't have the robust industrial character of a Unimate and some of the other low end tools but you do have the precision. For stuff like plastics and wood they are fine. Aluminium is OK too but with steel you are perhaps starting to struggle, Not that I have done much with steel other than mill some M3 machine screw heads from round into flat.

I will give you that they are not cheap and when it came to a lathe I didn't go for the Proxxon but something 5 times bigger and 4 times less the price.

I have some Proxxons here. They are definitely better than Dremel. TBM220 is perfect for PCBs, much better than the other tools. Somewhat expensive though.And the circular saw "FET" with a diamond blade eats very well through FR4.

Unimat looks better though.

Udo

So, I can't afford a "drill" and a "saw", if you get my meaning, so can a "drill" be used to "saw" a PCB in any way? (I have no experience of machining). Could I use a Proxxon/Dremel with a routing bit to cut or at least "score" (so it's easier to snap) a PCB? By PCB I mean some copper clad board.

Thanks
Jim

These drills are not really good for routing. This will bring them down much faster. Same for Dremel and other tools of this size. Routing needs heavier tools.

PCB != PCB. The question is FR4 or FR2? Better material is reinforced and thus much harder to cut. If you go for the cheap stuff it would be much simpler to cut. Unless you have proper tools.

My experience is: buy cheap = buy twice.

If you want to have a cheaper board cutter: some people use electric tile cutters. These are not as precise as a Proxxon FET but can be found very cheap at *bay. I have no experience with those though.

For the drills: the cheaper higher speed drills work for PCBs as well. But since I have the TBM I figure that they are not the proper tool for this kind of job.

Udo

Thanks Udo

These drills are not really good for routing.

I mean routing just to cut to size, not the actual board layout?

The question is FR4 or FR2?
If you go for the cheap stuff it would be much simpler to cut.

Whilst I want the permanence and neatness of a printed board rather than perfboard or similar, my designs aren't intended for commercial application or demanding environments so strength isn't a top priority. Are FR2 boards as easy to come by? If availability isn't the issue than no problem using FR2.

My experience is: buy cheap = buy twice.

Aint that the truth?!

electric tile cutters.

I'll check 'em out.

I have the TBM

Yes the TBM looks good but as on a budget the added flexibility of a free standing tool plus drill stand is attractive.

Jim

Ooh these look good ...

http://www.esr.co.uk/electronics/products/frame_pcb.htm

... but HOLY CRAPOLA! Look at the price!!!1

I use a Mastercraft (Canadian Tire house brand) "Rotary Multi-tool" (aka a dremel clone) along with a dremel brand drill press stand for drilling my PCB's. It works like a charm and with the right bits (3/64" and 1/32" -- $1.99 for two at Lowes) it makes drilling a breeze... The tool is about $99 or so and the drill press was about $60.

How much noise, relatively speaking, do the Proxxons and Dremels make?

I have got a Chinese knock off of a Dremel on a cnc pcb drill & I have to wear ear defenders or leave the room when it is running.

I was thinking of trying a brushless motor from a local model shop to quieten things down.

Not too much in my opinion... Mind you, I normally wear headphones with music playing to help with the monotony of drilling a few dozen holes, but I've run it in my attached garage at 3am with the whole family sleeping... Not a single complaint.

So I got a Proxxon IB/E and Proxxon MB 140/S drill stand. Impressed with the quality on both. The drill stand is effective but it isn't a design where precision was the greatest priority.

Drilled holes for a small board (FR2) in no time at all with the IB/E and one of the supplied drill bits. Even at 20,000RPM whilst the bit was in the work the unit was quiet. Certainly not as loud as say an electric drill that you might use to put up some shelves. Drilling FR2 I never felt like the unit was under any strain, it was in fact effortless, and found it hard to imagine how I'd break the bit unless I really tried! It got a bit tedious moving the board around for each new hole (I had it taped down to keep my precious guitar playing fingertips out of the way) so I think I might also get the Proxxon KT70 compound table. Then I can just move the work around with the wheels.

I also bought some routing bits and experimented with cutting the board. This was less successful although I was hardly using the tools at hand as intended. I tried sliding the board through the path of the routing bit. It worked but it was slow, noisier, the work had to be forced a little more than felt comfortable and the cut was pretty rough - although as said above the adjustable guide on the stand is not very stable. I was able to cut the board I wanted but the results weren't much better than careful hacksawing.

The board I was making had two PCB mount MIDI sockets that have larger leads than your average resistor, cap or IC. There wasn't a supplied drill bit large enough so I used the routing bit for these successfully.

I tried cutting board with the cutting wheels too. The board cut extremely easily with these although I couldn't really figure out an accurate or more importantly safe (!) way to turn a handheld drill into a table saw :slight_smile: Also worth mentioning that it cut a pretty thick line.

Please note all these observations are from a tool/machining newbie!

Conclusion - for drilling FR2 the IB/E and MB 140/S combo is perfect although the addition of the KT70 compound table would be very helpful and is a useful tool anyway. Short of something a bit random I couldn't really see how to persuade the combination to be a board cutter too.

@Grumpy_Mike - When you said in your post above that you use the Proxxon bench saw for board cutting I read it as "table saw" which I then Googled and found the newer FET table saw and saw that it was £300+ and dismissed it as too expensive. I looked back at your post and realised you meant the bench saw which is more like £90! How is it for cutting FR2? Are the cuts clean and straight and do they require further finishing?

Thanks
Jim