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Topic: advice please - Device to track how a delivery company handles our parcels (Read 987 times) previous topic - next topic

Boardburner2

I haven't ever shipped palettes but I frequently receive them and that's actually where I see the worst breakage. I think the culprit is the forklifts.

Packing !

At 5 ft long excessive packing could cause this. I am assuming you are using euro 2 pallets for this.

With long glass tubes if there is too much cushioning the bending moment can cause breakage with a big drop off a forklift.
No definitive data though.

Boardburner2

if you need to test a shipment, I would be happy to photograph what is received and re-label the package for return shipment.


Ditto.

I am in the UK and would be happy to take a few photos of the delivered package before opening.

Boardburner2

Give me a link to your site and i would be happy to order something.
So long as it is not a chateau latour 2009 or similar.

Not that i would not buy it but do not fancy paying for something that postie licks off the bottom of his truck. :)

jago2

Because we've been using it for many years with many couriers, including our last one that we had for several years. And the QA guy at our depot has personally visited us a number of times, checked it, watched us pack etc.

This suggests fairly clearly that the problem rests with the cheaper courier you are using.

So the question you have to face is whether the savings (compared to your previous courier) offset the cost and inconvenience of the breakages.

I know you said earlier "you get what you pay for but you also have to be able to pay for it" - but maybe you have simply got to the unacceptable bottom?

...R
no, trust me, we are nowhere near the bottom. this is reputable courier (as much as any are) and not one of the cheapest or terrible ones like Yodel.

TomGeorge

Hi,
Just reading through the thread, have your depot guys done a demographic of the damaged packages.

Do you get a % more damage from customers in one part of the country to another when you look at size of orders to those areas.

Being Sherlock here, your problem could be one of the handling depots in the delivery company or road route or airline or rail company.
Or even a Monday work blues.

Tom... :)
Everything runs on smoke, let the smoke out, it stops running....

Robin2

no, trust me, we are nowhere near the bottom. this is reputable courier
IMHO there lies the problem - failure to interpret the evidence!

If your breakage percentage is too high then you ARE at the bottom. Recognize it and move on.

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

dave-in-nj

Hi,
Just reading through the thread, have your depot guys done a demographic of the damaged packages.

Do you get a % more damage from customers in one part of the country to another when you look at size of orders to those areas.

Being Sherlock here, your problem could be one of the handling depots in the delivery company or road route or airline or rail company.
Or even a Monday work blues.

Tom... :)
all these would be answered by the idea the  OP offered in his first post.  create a data logger with sensors, even GPS, and send in the same box.
I had a thought that it could be lousy customers that claim damaged goods.
or this guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mn_kEwBZ7tE
you will never know until you datalog.  

TomGeorge

Hi,
Quote
all these would be answered by the idea the  OP offered in his first post.  create a data logger with sensors, even GPS, and send in the same box.
True, but the OP has all this information already with invoices and returned goods, and damaged goods claims.

Tom.... :)
Everything runs on smoke, let the smoke out, it stops running....

ardly

One place I worked we used to unload articulated lorries by hand and take the contents up two floors as there was no service lift. This was done by chain gang with anything of a suitable size and weight being thrown person to person, including cases containing glass and liquid.

Any breakages had normally already occurred when the goods were in pallets in the lorry, it was very rare for things (or people) to get damaged as packages were thrown along the line even if there was horseplay.

The idea of shipping some kind of tracking device to record what is done to a package seems like an attractive one. However it might be difficult to separate destructive handling from vigorous but actually quite safe handling. It also might be very difficult  to get the courier to understand the information and to interpret it in the same way you do. If the courier stonewalls the sight of broken packages are they really going to pay attention to information on g forces?

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored" - Aldous Huxley

dave-in-nj

Hi,True, but the OP has all this information already with invoices and returned goods, and damaged goods claims.

Tom.... :)
this is not entirely correct.
with returned goods showing damage.
you do not know if it was damaged by :
the driver picking it up
the person unloading the truck
the handlers in the warehose
the handler loading the first transfer vehicle
the drive between depots
the unloading at the first depot
the handling in the warehouse
the loading onto the second transfer truck
the ride in the second transfer truck
the unloading at the final warehouse
moving in the warehouse
loading onto the delivery vehicle
inside of the delivery vehicle
by the driver at the customer destination.
Can you say, without any reservation that the unloading at the first terminal did either 100% or 0% of the breakage ?
if the results were that there was breakage at every point, then the problem is the packaging.
if the results show that 100% of the breakage was at the first transfer, then you go to the company for corrective measures.
I agree that if you find 90% of damage is to 3 people, you have to wonder if they are making false claims.


Now, I will ask the group a question.
pro-mini
vibration sensors
GPS
impact sensor
battery
enclosure
what do you think it would cost to put that together ?

Robin2

what do you think it would cost to put that together ?
I'm not convinced that GPS adds any value - it may not be able to receive a signal for larger periods. I reckon an RTC that allows the date and time to be recorded would be just as useful.

HOWEVER ... the real answer seems to be to use the previous courier who could deliver the goods without excessive breakages.

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

jago2

I'm not convinced that GPS adds any value - it may not be able to receive a signal for larger periods. I reckon an RTC that allows the date and time to be recorded would be just as useful.

HOWEVER ... the real answer seems to be to use the previous courier who could deliver the goods without excessive breakages.

...R
Thanks but it really isn't the answer. They are over 3 times as expensive and it simply cannot be done. They've priced themselves out of this market.

No offence, but I came here to ask about the technical side.

dave-in-nj

<snip>  I came here to ask about the technical side.
we can help you with your product selections and guide you on your programming needs.
it was pointed out that there are a number of devices on the market to help track packages.  if none of them fit your needs, or you just want to make your own,  here is a simple starting list of options.
main boards :    
pro-mini
Nano
wemos D-1
pros's  smaller in sizes,  lots of pins
sensors ;
vibrations
shocks
temperature
gyroscope for angles
atmospheric pressure
humidity
real time clock
GPS
there can be lots more, some have good points
the GPS may not work for a large portion of the journey, but may work inside of open warehouses revealing where it traveled.   information could be valuable.
list what you think you would want to have and let us know what your questions are.


TomGeorge

this is not entirely correct.
with returned goods showing damage.
you do not know if it was damaged by :

inside of the delivery vehicle
by the driver at the customer destination.
Can you say, without any reservation that the unloading at the first terminal did either 100% or 0% of the breakage ?
if the results were that there was breakage at every point, then the problem is the packaging.
if the results show that 100% of the breakage was at the first transfer, then you go to the company for corrective measures.
I agree that if you find 90% of damage is to 3 people, you have to wonder if they are making false claims.
But you could get a possible paper trail from manufacturer to customer.
Any overlay of routes would have to be suspicious.
For example if this was here in Australia.
Parcel originates in Victoria, and I find my East Coast customers are returning damaged goods, but my West Coast don't.
What does it tell you.
The company is capable of carrying my parcels, but somewhere on the East Coast route there is something wrong.
If I further find the majority of problems is mid East Coast, then it narrows it down even further.
And that would just be from using the damaged goods return forms.
You then ask the carrier to "Please Explain" how he can deliver safely to one area but not another?

With respect to the list of parts, I wouldn't quote, I'd phone my friendly Chinese Manufacturer and let him under quote the rest of us.
The GPS in a container would have Rx problems, but an RTC and logging would be good.
If you put it in every parcel, you would have to offer a return fee to get it back.

I calibrate humidity and temp logging devices about 25mm diameter and 40mm long, they can be as low as $30 to $40.
But it would be interesting to see what price a simple unit with accel ,rtc , mem card, battery would cost assembled.

No offence, but I came here to ask about the technical side.
Sorry but this happens in forums, open minds to different ways to solve problems.
Tom... :)
Everything runs on smoke, let the smoke out, it stops running....

Robin2

Thanks but it really isn't the answer. They are over 3 times as expensive and it simply cannot be done. They've priced themselves out of this market.
I do understand that issue and I sympathize. But to my mind, based on what you have told us so far, it is the more expensive courier or nothing. I don't believe this is amenable to a technical solution.

The problem arises while your products are in the hands of the courier and they do not seem to be prepared to solve the problem. From what you have told us the courier firm is well aware of your concerns. More detailed evidence won't make them more aware.

I know this is not what you want to hear.

...R

PS.. Don't worry. I am not going to say this again
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

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