What's with the response to Sandy's victims ?

It's natural (and right I think) for people to want to better themselves and their situation. It turns into greed when said people have more than they can ever use and yet want even more.

Anyone read the Mexican fisherman story? It's a classic.


Rob

It turns into greed

Without greed, 99.9% of what we rely on daily wouldn't have been available to you and me.

Graynomad:
It's natural (and right I think) for people to want to better themselves and their situation. It turns into greed when said people have more than they can ever use and yet want even more.

Anyone read the Mexican fisherman story? It's a classic.


Rob

Very NSFW comedian, Lewis Black, on Greed:

"Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Take his fish away and tell him he's lucky just to be alive, and he'll figure out how to catch another one for you to take tomorrow."

Ah yes but don't confuse wealth creation with greed.

We do need people with the drive to create large companies that in turn produce goods and livelihoods for the vast majority that don't have the vision or the drive and just want a job.

But the wealth created should be distributed more equitably. Yes as the prime mover you should get paid a lot more than the janitor, but at present you have people spending more on a hotel room for the night than others earn in a year. Not that there's anything new in this, it's been the case ever since there was "stuff" to buy.

There are a few that don't follow the greed path, billionaires that still drive their old Chevy and give a large part of their wealth to various causes.

I just watched a documentary on some bloke (I think he is the richest person in China), he still eats with the staff in the lunch room and gives most of his money away.

He has created a huge amount of wealth, given a good livelihood to 1000s of people (presumably or they wouldn't eat with him, either that or they are scared of being fired :)) and not an ounce of greed in sight (as far as one can tell from a documentary anyway).

So I would argue that greed, while as natural to humans as breathing, is wrong and not necessary.

Wanting to better yourself is good, but as I said before once you have more than you need it becomes greed. This is largely semantics though as some people "need" more than others, for example I "need" an Arduino Due while others need health care or a good meal.


Rob

Lewis Black, on Greed:

That typifies a large portion of our society: greed is good as long as you spend it in liberal-approving ways, like hiring an attractive young girl as your ball-washer, or spending it creatively (as defined by Lewis Black. Greed is bad if you didn't do as Lewis Black had deemed good.

Lewis Black, on Greed:

That's good, I've not seen him before.

One assumes that his use for all the money is just a piss take :slight_smile:


Rob

dhenry:

Lewis Black, on Greed:

That typifies a large portion of our society: greed is good as long as you spend it in liberal-approving ways, like hiring an attractive young girl as your ball-washer, or spending it creatively (as defined by Lewis Black. Greed is bad if you didn't do as Lewis Black had deemed good.

America is doomed as long as people like you are able to turn everything into a political issue.

But the wealth created should be distributed more equitably.

What does that mean? How do we define "equity" / "equality"? "equity" or "equality" of what? who defines "equity"? and why?

End of the day, it is a choice of what kind of a society we want: do we want to provide our folks upward mobility or do we want to bring down our producers.

An utopia where everyone is equally rich is a world where everyone is equally poor. If you want to know what capitalism can do for poor people, look to China.

A utopia where everyone is equally rich

That's not what I said.

If you want to know what capitalism can do for poor people, look to China.

You mean the millions of farmers being screwed and cheated from their land by the town's officials so said officials can get in on the property boom?

do we want to provide our folks upward mobility or do we want to bring down our producers.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

@wizdum
We sometimes get questions about taking Arduino projects through the airports, how do you go with that Bomb Prop project of yours :slight_smile:


Rob

When our port cities and all the land now 20 ft or so above sea level is below sea level, that's a good time to admit that just maybe things got pushed a bit too hard.

What's that, about HALF the world population displaced? Not to worry! The ones who can't afford to move and push someone else off higher ground don't count!

Really, how many of RMoney's 47% had jobs/careers and homes before the Bush tax cut borrow and spend economy took them away? Something like half, in the name of realized profits. What a great deal when you get to cut so many people down and then insult them to boot. How many pensions robbed? How many people saw their life savings evaporate in the Wall Street Casino? But now they're all just lazy losers that never took responsibility? What a crock!

What a crock!

[+]

RMoney's 47%

In that event, Romney's 47% should all get together and redistribute wealth amongst themselves - all of their problems solved.

Just leave the rest of us out of that.

So now it's creeps who villainize the latest victims of industry gone too far. That just goes to show what kind of country we could have.

villainize

I see those "victims" more as blood sucking leeches that you cannot get rid of.

It is never fair for them to own up to their own decisions. Fairness to them is really to take money from others and put it into their own pockets.

The democracy they practice is nothing more than three wolves voting to eat that poor rabbit. 100% democratic, and 100% wrong too.

Yes, you should take your money and leave. Find a nice totalitarian country you can be happy in.

I'm amazed at how right wing the world is becoming

Perhaps you disagree with the role of government as established EVEN BY STATE MILITIAS (also known as the National Guard):

http://www.arng.army.mil/Pages/Default.aspx
http://www.arng.army.mil/aboutus/history/Pages/ConstitutionalCharteroftheGuard.aspx

Quite obviously you've never been through a natural disaster or other event which you cannot prepare for or handle. Some folks are not so lucky.

Providing for the Common Defense (which also includes domestic disaster response) and General Welfare of the nation. For ourselves and our posterity. Sound familiar? It's the Preamble. We've got this funny little document kicking around which describes the role of government, the levying of taxes to support those roles, and all that fun stuff. It establishes at least basic protections should be provided to ALL the populace based upon a series of taxes levied upon the citizens. This is fair because those members of the populace that prosper do so by use of the public infrastructure and private work and patronage of the citizenry at large. Accumulation of wealth comes with a responsibility to repay the society which provided the circumstances and structure (this country) that allowed the wealth to be created. General Welfare and Common Defense. Because not everyone gets lucky enough to avoid tragedy, and we as nation believe that we are strong enough to help our citizens in times of emergency.

We have sanctioned trajedies any more. Whole areas of people whose water is poisoned and land wasted because of what's under it.

We've turned from the original country into a winners-take-all game of Monopoly except in the last 30 years that's gotten crossed with Musical Chairs as tax law and free trade have made exporting jobs steadily more profitable for the few at the expense of the rest.

My not favorite part is how many of the cheerleaders call themselves Christians. There's your wolves in sheep's clothing. They should hold services in banks and make pilgrimages to Wall Street.

Quite obviously you've never been through a natural disaster or other event which you cannot prepare for or handle. Some folks are not so lucky.

I am sure there are natural disasters that you cannot prepare for or to handle. But you are not seirously suggesting that Sandy is one of such events, right?

It establishes at least basic protections should be provided

So what are considered "basic"? food? clothing? public housing or a MacMansion for everyone? ...

[/quote]to ALL the populace[/quote]

OK, where is my mortgage principal reduction then? why am I subject to means testing, just because I did the responsible thing of saving up for my retirement or to investment in myself, rather than blowing my savings on some $500/pair shoes or $5000 flat screen tvs?

based upon a series of taxes levied upon the citizens.

Yeah, let's levy that series of taxes on ALL of our citizens if ALL of our citizens receive benefits of such taxes.

Because not everyone gets lucky enough to avoid tragedy,

I am sure I have money in the bank because I am lucky, :slight_smile:

Again, wealth redistribution is only fair to those demanding wealth redistribution as long as they are recipients of such redistribution.

You don't think so? Try to tax those folks in the name of wealth redistribution.

Homes and small businesses wiped out, it will be a while to put things back in order if something else doesn't make it worse.

But when it's banks and/or big business due to their own bad deals, let's start at 12 digits.

Do they make weapons? Make sure they get more than last time, anything else is treason.

Big Oil made trillions in profit? Give them a few billion extra to cover campaign contributions.

Halliburton? Whatever your books say happened, that's what happened, here's the money.

But oh no no no we don't want any redistribution of wealth.

BTW, the poor do pay taxes and fees all the time. Where does the landlord get the money to pay his? Ever heard of sales tax? License or ID card fees? Utility taxes? Gas tax?

What's this $500 pair of shoes? Not the usual at all. Nor the $5000 flat screen. Some may but the stereotype is just as lame as the jerkwad that uses it.

Let's hear the one about the 10 men who eat at a restaurant and the 1st one gets hit with 56% of the bill. It leaves out a few details like who eats gourmet while being entertained in the private suite of privilege and who eats cheese sandwiches at a small table next to the restroom door.

Not to mention how when the country's in a mess, who by far and beyond get drafted and even in peacetime fill the enlisted military positions? Or to put a finer point on it, whose children get to die for the security of the privileges they never had?

Instead of managing the problem they helped make many times worse over the past 3 decades, the GOP operates on a "get rid of them" view while espousing to be the party of responsibility. Responsible to their big campaign contributors, not the country and people they exploit.

If stimulus was evil in 2009 then why was the even bigger stimulus package of 2008 good? Or the other Bush stimulus packages? Oh yeah, GOP never says anything the GOP does is wrong even if when the DEMS do it The World Will End.

If tax cuts makes jobs then please explain how in 11 YEARS since the big 2001 cut there have been less and less jobs with 2007 and 2008 taking the US into a depression?

GOP is party of denial and bad math. Also the Hate and Fear Groupthink Party.
That and their lunatic fringe base is why they lost the election and their best sitting members.