Arduino Due Mini/Nano

If the vanilla SAM3XE chip like you can order it from Farnell works with own-built boards, I might develop a smaller version of the Due. I developed a variant (actually: a shield) for the 8bit Arduino for use in industrial environments (think ruggedcircuits but better :stuck_out_tongue: ), but boards with the dimensions of the Due or the Mega don't fit in our DIN-rail enclosures.

Perhaps it is possible to minimize the dimensions to something in the range of a Uno by omitting some pinheaders. Then you would have the same number of input/outputs of a regular Arduino, but with the processing power of the Due.

The Teensy 3.0 is now entering general release if you wanted an ARM board in a smaller package than the DUE. The Teensy is not the DUE, so be sure to understand what it offers and what it doesn't. Teensy 3.0 uses a modified Arduino 1.0.1 IDE.

Definately an arduino due nano would be very cool :D.

MichaelMeissner:
The Teensy 3.0 is now entering general release if you wanted an ARM board in a smaller package than the DUE. The Teensy is not the DUE, so be sure to understand what it offers and what it doesn't. Teensy 3.0 uses a modified Arduino 1.0.1 IDE.

I have one at home, awaiting torture. I can't tell you how excited I am about these little gems. The teensy is aimed at a much smaller market but I also happen to think that the Due is not only overkill but that it's design misses the sweet spot by virtue of shoehorning a 32-bit architecture into a 8-bit legacy interface. This 144-pin monstrosity seems to have been selected because one could put out a board in a similar I/O factor configuration as the Mega. But IMO they should have broken from past shield designs for the 32-bit architecture to eliminate the possibility of fried CPUs, enable improved I/O interfacing, among other issues.

For me, the 64-pin chip on the teensy offers plenty of I/O out of the box while still being bread-boardable. And the chip is 50% less to buy than the SAM processor on the Due, i.e. about the same price difference as a 328 vs. 1284. And the teensy price vs. Due price reflects that too. I am considering re-designing my DAQ boards around a standard dual pin header for the Teensy. It would eliminate a lot of the complexity from my boards and the CPUs can be re-purposed as needed later. Never mind the on-board RTC, 16-bit ADC (vs. 12 on the Due) etc.

But! There is something to be said for the benefits of older 5V-based legacy devices in terms of their ability to drive signals, etc. in ways that the more modern chips cannot.

Teensy + headers =

I hope to get some time to try some projects out on it this weekend.

Duane B

rcarduino.blogspot.com

Guys... this forum is about the Arduino Due...
let's keep in on topic

While not a Mini/Nano, I look forward to an ethernet Due. Phy ethernet and SD card can do some pretty awesome things. I have a Sam3X-EK at work for a project and the demo is pretty slick with a rich web interface but the demo is based on BeRTOS which doesn't have a large community and has custom drivers. Atmel just added "native" lwIP support to asf and will add SD card drivers in the next version(November hopefully)
Are the Due drivers ASF-based or from scratch because of licensing issues?

I wonder how the Due firmware would work with the Sam3X-EK, Atmel doesn't even sell the processor(SAM3X8H) on the board.

AFAIK The ATMEL engineers who write all the demo code ported arduino to run on the EK. They don't really use the IDE but a custom makefile.

Arduino Due, on the other hand, is included in Atmel Studio 6.

As I mentioned this Due board is the first in the family

m

Hi Massimo and thanks for stopping by.

First of all, many thanks for your time, efforts, and so on that it has taken to get the Arduino project as far as you and your team have. You've single-handedly transformed what used to be a clubby atmosphere in the embedded systems market with the excitement of open-source IDE's/hardware, excellent documentation, great boards for people to begin learning electronics on, etc. That's a huge achievement and the number of competitors imitating you is I guess a nice compliment.

That said, and I don't want to be rude, but where are we off-topic? We're comparing the Due to its competitors, it has features they don't and vice versa. Similar conversations go on all over the forums, comparing various Arduino boards to each other. Are you sensitive to the discussion of a competitors' product?

Many thanks again for all the work that you and your team do to push the Arduino business forward.

I guess that since Masssimo Banzi did not mention the topic of if there was a Due Mini/Nano officially in the works at the present time, then there probalby is not.

I had seen the Teensy 3.0 already at the time I first made this post, and that was why I naturally asked if there were any plans for an "Official" Arduino version with mor guaranteed future Software and hardware support.

As far as the Due Mega+ (Giga?) size factor goes, I will probalby only ever buy one for prototyping and so on. A Due Mini on the other hand more like 3+ for all those flying, walking, roling, swiming things where size/weight is definetely an issue. Never mind all the wearable and hideable stuff.

To CrossRoads:

Start writing up some requiremets, I'm sure it can be reduced to a smaller size.

  • desired size
  • desired power sourcing
  • desired pinouts
  • desired headers
  • desired built-in interfacing
  • etc.

Size: Same as the mini, Perhaps 4 to 8 Pins longer. Just as wide with perhaps a second parallel auter row of pins. I would prefer a rectangular board over a square one. More perimeter to surface area.
Headers: Suggestion: Male headers down for breadboard compatibility, Female headers up for additional pins.
Power sourcing/Interface: USB, Battery 5 to 15V, FTDI would be OK too.
Pinouts: 1.5 to double the amount of the pins on the Mini.

As to which pins... thats where the fun begins. Suggestions? I don't think there will be a please all solution here with all the available capabilities.

J

A small factor Due is in the list of boards that will come out.
There are a number of issues to solve ... for example with such a big processors it becomes hard to make something that would fit into a breadboard without removing access to most of the pins.

Any suggestions?

For example: Is it important to have the two separate USB connections or just the "native" connection would suffice?

m

Hi,
The 'other board' breaks out a set of perimeter pins and then leaves the others accessible through solder pads on the underside, this keeps the size down while providing access to a larger number of pins as an option. It seems like a sensible compromise for new generation boards.

Duane B

rcarduino.blogspot.com

Any suggestions?

Plug it into two breadboards. (no I'm not joking, I see no problem with doing that)

Headers: Suggestion: Male headers down for breadboard compatibility, Female headers up for additional pins.

Leave uncommitted so you can add whatever is appropriate for your application.


Rob

@DuaneB @graynomad

Thanks for the suggestion.

BTW we can discuss other Arduino compatible products and call them by name, I was just objecting to a couple of messages that were basically advertising while the topic is about discussing other formats for the Due.

m

Constantin:
Hi Massimo and thanks for stopping by.

First of all, many thanks for your time, efforts, and so on that it has taken to get the Arduino project as far as you and your team have. You've single-handedly transformed what used to be a clubby atmosphere in the embedded systems market with the excitement of open-source IDE's/hardware, excellent documentation, great boards for people to begin learning electronics on, etc. That's a huge achievement and the number of competitors imitating you is I guess a nice compliment.

That said, and I don't want to be rude, but where are we off-topic? We're comparing the Due to its competitors, it has features they don't and vice versa. Similar conversations go on all over the forums, comparing various Arduino boards to each other. Are you sensitive to the discussion of a competitors' product?

Many thanks again for all the work that you and your team do to push the Arduino business forward.

thanks for the kind words :slight_smile:

BTW I don't "stop by", I live here :slight_smile:

As I mentioned we can freely discuss any compatible board/competitor and what not. I was just objecting to a post that was basically advertising while I was more interested in the discussion around what other formats the Due could have.

m

I for one would like to see a Due the size of a Uno. I don't really care that I won't be able to use all the pins. Heck, most of my advanced projects don't even use all the pins of a standard Arduino. I however do need the extra processing power, speed and memory of the SAM3x chip.

If more IO is needed, I can always buy or build expander shields based on SPI, I²C or plain old shift registers. :slight_smile:

I've looked at other memebers of the same family with a smaller package that wouldn't require a huge amount of porting.
it would be possible to make a Uno sized board with one of those.

m

As an example of design, look at the STM32F4-Discovery, you will see that they made 2 rows of pins on each side of the board. It is not bread board friendly but, the board "in inches" is only 2.6" x 3.85". The Uno is 2.1" x 2.7" (not counting USB connectors on either board). The STM board has some extra features that could be removed to make it a bit smaller, and still have room for another USB connector. This board format will allow for all the pins to be accessible for use and shields could be made to fit it also.

A reason I do not like the board, is because the male pins were soldered in by the factory and I can not seem to remove them without damaging the board. The solder they used seems to have a extremely high melting point. I would have preferred no pins installed or female headers installed.

I spend my time with Arduino because I love the ease of programming Arduino provides and I am grateful the Due is out! I am waiting for mine to be delivered.

Hello Massimo

A question: why did you choose the SAM3X8E and not the lower pin count 3X8C? Wouldn't the latter be easier for smaller boards since it has 44 pins less while still retaining most of its features?

K.R.
Jo

I would start by looking critically at the Leaflabs Maple for ideas on what an Uno sized board should be (and maybe the Chipkit Uno32 as well), and at the Maple Mini and Teensy 3.0 for ideas of what a nano sized board might incorporate. For a nano, I'd think one, maybe two mini usb ports, and that's it -- and the rest of whatever IO is broken out is on breadboard pins.

I've programmed the Maple, and I quite like them, I think they are quite an elegant design in many ways. (Of course, it's in it's third major release revision by now, so there's been time to get a few things sorted out.) The one gripe I have is the limited capacity of the board power supply -- you have to manage the board power very carefully if you want to power any external devices as well. Certainly more finicky than something like an Uno to work with, but they work very well and are very reliable once you get them setup properly.

Obviously, a nano sized board using the same chip as the Due would make no sense economically, even if it were physically possible to fit. If a peripheral isn't broken out on a dev board, it might as well not be there. And the smaller the dev board, the more limited the number of pins for breakouts. So why would you pay for an expensive chip if a cheaper variant will effectively give you the same functionality?

So I think the idea of a Due mini/nano is somewhat wrong-headed to start with. An arm-based mini/nano perhaps, but a different beast entirely to the Due.