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Community => Bar Sport => Topic started by: sbright33 on Dec 06, 2012, 08:26 am

Title: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: sbright33 on Dec 06, 2012, 08:26 am
http://www.artmusicdance.com/vaspi/highlights.htm

Do you like math?  Take some time to read this.  Click some of his links.  What do you think?

He found messages written by God in Pi ...
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: DuaneB on Dec 06, 2012, 09:03 am
Personally I wonder about this guy, I enjoy some of his music and he holds some significant accademic positions, but he is also clearly nuts -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oiJMXAgZR0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oiJMXAgZR0)

Duane B
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: sbright33 on Dec 06, 2012, 09:11 am
Maybe he's just really stoned or tripping in that video.  Anybody who loves music is alright by me!
What about his math knowledge?  Does it make sense?  Can you follow it?  Do you see any mistakes?
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: DuaneB on Dec 07, 2012, 12:00 pm
I skipped through the article and when i read something along the lines of 'proves the existence of the pythagorean god, not the god of the many religions' i decided on 'nutter' on the basis of -

Here are some weak links between a few things - i am going to ignore that many thing are rather difficult to discover and do not have similar links but will still conclude that my few examples prove the existence of god and to cap it all, its not god after all.

Eh ?

Duane B
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: GoForSmoke on Dec 07, 2012, 06:51 pm
Quote
When I was eighteen years I noticed the 3_4_5 right at the start of pi.


3.14159.....

What 3_4_5 ?

This guy takes a running start at nutter.

Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: liuzengqiang on Dec 09, 2012, 06:47 pm
Did anyone notice what it reads if you write 3.14 and flip to the back side and read again? Trying to find some pattern in pi is a pretty foolish behavior of maybe obsession of arithmetic and the inability to understand more advanced mathematics at intro college science engineering level that finds pi value through calculus. What these nuts really love is to find a location where the local gravity is the square of pi. Maybe that is where their god is.
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: CrossRoads on Dec 09, 2012, 06:54 pm
Of course, this whole argument only makes sense in Base 10 math.
Do it in Octal, Hex, I bet the results don't show any of these quirky patterns at all.
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: sbright33 on Dec 09, 2012, 08:18 pm
That's exactly his point Crossroads.  No patterns show up in the beginning of Pi using any other base.  There is nothing unique about base 10.  We chose it because of our fingers?  This proves that there is some connection between the base we use and the number Pi.  Almost as if it were a message to us...  He subtracted a constant from Pi and found no patterns in the beginning of the result.  There is no simple constant you can add or subtract which creates interesting patterns.  Nobody is buying it?
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: GoForSmoke on Dec 09, 2012, 10:15 pm
Just because you think there's a pattern doesn't make it real.

Pi is an irrational number (can't be expressed as a ratio of integers) regardless of base. It is the relation of flat space to lines if you look close. It is very important but will not reduce to anybody's short-cut BS philosophy. It's as simple as a circle without the meanings idiots would attach to that for which I am grateful, math is difficult enough without adding superstition.

Pi --- starting with 3 - 4 - 5? Oh puh-leeese! That twerp could care less about Pi, he's off on his own trip.

I'd put money on the whole thing being an exercise in image-pumping for the next release. I guess he had to go with Pi since Jon Anderson took the Golden Ratio for his revelation tool.

Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: liuzengqiang on Dec 09, 2012, 11:49 pm

Pi is an irrational number (can't be expressed as a ratio of integers) regardless of base.


Exactly. Or alternatively put it, a result of two incommensurate periods. I wonder why there's not as much fascination to other irrational numbers such as square root of 2 being 1.4142136... It's every bit as practical as pi. If you see some independent variable change by a factor of 2 but your dependent variable only changing about 40%, you are likely looking at a y=sqrt(x) situation. I routinely cancel square of pi with gravity g since their numerical values only differ by less than 1%. There's no hidden message here. Just numerical coincidence. I also hate the calender. Some irrelevant initial conditions have set the period of earth rotation, revolution around sun and moon revolution around earth and we are trying to make sense by hodgepodging these three incommensurate periods together into various calenders even to this day. The crazy leap day, some once per 4 years but not per 100 years but again per 400 years and again some stuff 8000 year you will have to do what?!
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: CrossRoads on Dec 10, 2012, 12:47 am
Don't forget leap seconds too 8)

And with the Mayan calendar running out ...
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: liuzengqiang on Dec 10, 2012, 12:50 am
Essentially if you drive X channel with day and Y channel with year, your Lissajous curve will never close.  ;)
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: Grumpy_Mike on Dec 10, 2012, 01:01 am
That is only because there is no relationship between the rotation of the Earth on its axis and the orbit of the Earth round the Sun. All the leap units of time compensate and stop the seasons drifting round the calander. Messages from God ought to start, Dear Mankind, otherwise you are just making it up.
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: Ran Talbott on Dec 10, 2012, 01:04 am

There is nothing unique about base 10.  We chose it because of our fingers?  This proves that there is some connection between the base we use and the number Pi.


There you have it: incontrovertible proof that evolution is a lie, and we were intelligently designed with 10 fingers so we would choose decimal numbers and find the secret messages embedded in the value of pi  ]:D

And if that's not enough, don't forget that our eyes' spectral response was designed so we could see Jesus in that grilled cheese sandwich on ebay.

What more could you ask for?
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: CrossRoads on Dec 10, 2012, 01:08 am
LOL 8)
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: sbright33 on Dec 10, 2012, 02:00 am
You may be right, but you shouldn't jump to conclusions about the relationship between the earth and sun rotation/orbit.  200 years ago you wouldn't expect the period of the rotation of the moon on it's axis is connected to the period of it's orbit.  But it is exactly the same for good reason!
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: liuzengqiang on Dec 10, 2012, 02:04 am

200 years ago you wouldn't expect the period of the rotation of the moon on it's axis is connected to the period of it's orbit.  But it is exactly the same for good reason!


I am not an astronomer but enlighten me anyways.
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: retrolefty on Dec 10, 2012, 02:25 am


Pi is an irrational number (can't be expressed as a ratio of integers) regardless of base.


Exactly. Or alternatively put it, a result of two incommensurate periods. I wonder why there's not as much fascination to other irrational numbers such as square root of 2 being 1.4142136... It's every bit as practical as pi. If you see some independent variable change by a factor of 2 but your dependent variable only changing about 40%, you are likely looking at a y=sqrt(x) situation. I routinely cancel square of pi with gravity g since their numerical values only differ by less than 1%. There's no hidden message here. Just numerical coincidence. I also hate the calender. Some irrelevant initial conditions have set the period of earth rotation, revolution around sun and moon revolution around earth and we are trying to make sense by hodgepodging these three incommensurate periods together into various calenders even to this day. The crazy leap day, some once per 4 years but not per 100 years but again per 400 years and again some stuff 8000 year you will have to do what?!


And I always thought it was Presidential elections that caused and forced leap years on us?  :D
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: sbright33 on Dec 10, 2012, 05:34 am
The moon's orbit and rotation on it's axis has the same time period, because of it's shape.  Gravity causes it to do both at the same speed.  It is shaped like a football a little, not a perfect sphere.
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: liuzengqiang on Dec 10, 2012, 06:33 am

The moon's orbit and rotation on it's axis has the same time period, because of it's shape.  Gravity causes it to do both at the same speed.  It is shaped like a football a little, not a perfect sphere.


Makes some sense. Not gravity, friction. This is the steady state of moon after so many years. I read up on wikipedia.
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: GoForSmoke on Dec 10, 2012, 06:35 am
All orbits are ellipses and the moon always faces the Earth because its rotation is gravitationally locked, as some day Earth will be to the Sun. I think that Newton and others had that figured out over 200 years ago, btw.

The relations can't be so special since Earth is turning slower every year and the Moon's orbit is still widening about 2 inches per year towards its equilibrium.

Think of the long tradition of astrologers and other con-men getting over on the rubes, this clown is working the crowd in that grand old tradition. It's -not- just music, it's inspired music that if you have the right vibes can pick up on and become like, a better person you know? It's tooooob-yew-ler!

Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: udoklein on Dec 10, 2012, 07:39 pm
This guy did not notice the coincidence e^(pi*i) + 1 = 0 which connects 5 fundamental constants.Of those 5 constants the first two are transcendental, the next is imaginary and the last two are natural. If this does not prove the existence of god please turn your head by 90 degrees and rethink the whole argument ;)
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: liuzengqiang on Dec 10, 2012, 08:08 pm

If this does not prove the existence of god ...


I thought that was a philosophical question, all of which requires no proof. I though such question as do you trust Newton's laws of motion needs no proof. There is no way to prove the laws. We can experiment with them and show they work under our experimental conditions but still can't prove it will work elsewhere. But, if you do trust these laws, through seeing them work under various experimental conditions, you can prove many other laws with Newton's laws. I used to watch TV and I had (still have) the "History" and sci-fi channel. Between these channels I can't remember how many times some religious "scientists" were proving some events described in religious scripts actually happened, such as Red sea splitting with a desktop fan and bath tub, and bush can burn spontaneously. They got it all wrong. Philosophy needs no proof! Although it is easy to actually prove that god exists than disproving it. He just needs to show up and do some godly things in front of non-believers.
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: GoForSmoke on Dec 10, 2012, 09:09 pm
If Jesus himself showed up at a Tea Party convention and healed a bunch for free then started delivering -his- message they'd call him a fag and hang him for being a liberal.

Anything you can prove is not God. You spend your time better getting along with others, knowing them even if you can't prove who they are either.

Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: sbright33 on Dec 10, 2012, 10:49 pm
http://xkcd.com/217

But why does e^(pi*i)=-1?  I think we understand that.  At least some of us do.  But not the 3_4_5 thing and all the rest.  It's a mystery.  It requires belief not proof.  It's philosophical.  It can't be explained.  There's no reason for that pattern to be there.  You have to admit at least that it's interesting.
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: liuzengqiang on Dec 10, 2012, 10:59 pm

http://xkcd.com/217

But why does e^(pi*i)=-1?  I think we understand that.  At least some of us do.  But not the 3_4_5 thing and all the rest.  It's a mystery.  It requires belief not proof.  It's philosophical.  It can't be explained.  There's no reason for that pattern to be there.  You have to admit at least that it's interesting.



First time seeing it for me! Very funny!
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: sbright33 on Dec 11, 2012, 01:22 am
Why does e^pi-pi = 19.9990999...? Can someone explain the math behind that to me? Maybe there is no math. Philosophy?

Is it a Coincidence that it is so close to 20?  It's only 1/10,000 away.  But 6 9's?  Hmmm  Wait for it.
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: liuzengqiang on Dec 11, 2012, 02:31 am
exp(pi)-pi=pi+pi^2/2+pi^3/3!+pi^4/4!....-pi

I don't know where that leads except for numerical result.
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: el_supremo on Dec 11, 2012, 02:58 am
You've missed a term.
exp(pi)-pi=1+pi+pi^2/2+pi^3/3!+pi^4/4!....-pi

Pete
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: liuzengqiang on Dec 11, 2012, 03:04 am
oops. Any math wiz?
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: GoForSmoke on Dec 11, 2012, 03:18 am

But not the 3_4_5 thing and all the rest. 


That's because there is no 3_4_5 thing. The rest is fundamental relationships you can't understand without advanced math and coincidental digits.

You do the math you get to see it. There's no other way. You don't and you may become prey to charlatans and worse.

3_4_5.... what a con!

Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: cyberteque on Dec 11, 2012, 03:59 am
has any one read "Half Past Human" or "Godwhale" by T.J. Bass?

His gY=c premise that it's the creators signature is kinda interesting.

basically a planets gravity times the year in seconds comes out to the speed of light for a habitable planet.

And on the subject of pi, have you guys seen the movie?

If you haven't you should
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: GoForSmoke on Dec 11, 2012, 05:53 am
I liked the first Castenada set better.
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: Boffin1 on Dec 12, 2012, 03:43 am
Quote
There is nothing unique about base 10.  We chose it because of our fingers?  This proves that there is some connection between the base we use and the number Pi.


If only a threetoed sloth could talk and inform us what he thinks pi is ?
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: sbright33 on Dec 12, 2012, 05:50 am
It seldom stands alone.  But it stands alone more often than pi/2 or pi+constant.  So it makes more sense to define pi than 2pi. 

A= Pi * r^2  That's the first one we learned with Pi in it.
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: Ran Talbott on Dec 12, 2012, 07:55 am

If only a threetoed sloth could talk and inform us what he thinks pi is ?


3.05033005141512410523441405312532110230121444200411525255331420331

However, since it's a sloth, most people would give up and walk away before it got past the second "3"...
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: cyberteque on Dec 12, 2012, 08:02 am
for a 3 toed sloth counting in base 3
base10 -> base3
1- 1
2- 2
3- 3
4-10
5- 11
6- 12
7- 13
8- 20
9- 21
10- 22

as for 2Pi, thats a radian/gradian thing

geometrically Pi is diameter/circumference
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: GoForSmoke on Dec 12, 2012, 08:03 am
Uhhh, Cybertech.... how do you count to 10? With 1 hand?

The usually teach circumference first.

Pi as a half-circle, once you start using graphs and trig makes a whole lot of sense.

I've read there's been recent discovery of a pile of Archimedes' writings. The man was on to the limit or working on it before the Roman soldier showed him who's boss.

There's an ancient Arabic proof of the Pythagorean Theorem from centuries before Pythagoras that I always liked because it's geometric. But my hat's off to the Indian scholars who invented zero and went on to other depths (finite series, maybe infinite series) maybe 1000 years before Newton.

I remember finding out why the volume of a sphere is 4/3 Pi R^3, why the 4/3. It doesn't "prove" anything but the volume of a sphere but it was nice to know how. Which brings me to this whole "proves" thing. Some people have awfully loose ideas about what proof is, ie: "I want" + "something convenient with no real connection" = "proof". Please.. just.. think.
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: Boffin1 on Dec 12, 2012, 08:07 am
Right, perhaps the sloth uses base 6 then ??   and can you imagine how slow he would be using a calculator, as Ran said.
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: cyberteque on Dec 12, 2012, 08:17 am
so the Roman's had how many fingers?

base 10 as we know it was an Arabic invention.

besides the sloth would fall out of the tree if he/she used both hands

but to cater to the pedantic

1- 1
2- 2
3- 3
4- 4
5- 5
6- 10
7- 11
8- 12
9- 13
10- 14

this assumes the sloth has learnt the value of 0, either as a quantity or a place holder

Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: DuaneB on Dec 12, 2012, 01:46 pm
I can't help wondering - 'now who are the nutters ?'

Fair points though.

Duane B
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: Boffin1 on Dec 12, 2012, 02:23 pm
I think its fairly late night bar sport !
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: liuzengqiang on Dec 12, 2012, 04:59 pm
There may exists algebraic proof of the volume of a sphere but if you do integral calculus, the volume is fairly easily found. What was hard for me in college was finding volume of n-dimensional sphere. I never got the concept right to start with.
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: cyberteque on Dec 12, 2012, 05:33 pm
A few years agoI went to buy some paving paint to repaint my laundry floor, I asked the smarmy hardware guy, "How many cans of this do I need for a floor 3 metres by 4 metres"

he replied

"how long is a piece of sting?"

I suggested he procreate with himself

Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: kf2qd on Dec 12, 2012, 06:44 pm
One can find many things in strange places if one really wants to find it there. The tests and the results are easily manipulated to yield the desired result. And one can waste much time chasing after foolishness thinking one is wise because he believes the lies others are telling him. And some just think that they are so superior to other humans that they don't need anyone else's input to feel superior.

He who thinks himself wise should take care lest others see him as he really is. Kind of like the "Emperors New Clothes".
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: retrolefty on Dec 12, 2012, 06:53 pm

One can find many things in strange places if one really wants to find it there. The tests and the results are easily manipulated to yield the desired result. And one can waste much time chasing after foolishness thinking one is wise because he believes the lies others are telling him. And some just think that they are so superior to other humans that they don't need anyone else's input to feel superior.

He who thinks himself wise should take care lest others see him as he really is. Kind of like the "Emperors New Clothes".


But on the other hand, Nostradamus made himself famous (and probably rich) by using just such methods. Say and write enough crazy stuff and someone will find some answer(s) they are looking for in it.  :D

Lefty
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: Boffin1 on Dec 12, 2012, 08:03 pm

Quote

"How many cans of this do I need for a floor 3 metres by 4 metres"

he replied

"how long is a piece of sting?"


We asked directions to Dublin while lost in Ireland, and the guy said     " to be sure, I wouldnt have started from here ! "     

Just as helpful but from the heart -)
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: cyberteque on Dec 12, 2012, 08:28 pm
Nostradamus didn't get rich, he hid his visions in weird poetry so he didn't burnt at the stake
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: retrolefty on Dec 12, 2012, 08:44 pm

Nostradamus didn't get rich, he hid his visions in weird poetry so he didn't burnt at the stake


Never met the guy, but Wikipedia does state:

Quote
Final years and death


Nostradamus' current tomb in the Coll├ęgiale Saint-Laurent, Salon, into which his scattered remains were transferred after 1789.
By 1566, Nostradamus's gout, which had plagued him painfully for many years and made movement very difficult, turned into oedema, or dropsy. In late June he summoned his lawyer to draw up an extensive will bequeathing his property plus 3,444 crowns (around $300,000 US today), minus a few debts, to his wife pending her remarriage, in trust for her sons pending their twenty-fifth birthdays and her daughters pending their marriages.


Maybe he had a day job that paid better then he got from his writings?

Lefty
Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: GoForSmoke on Dec 13, 2012, 12:03 am
He got too many details right for me to dismiss outright.

Title: Re: Nutter or Genius?
Post by: cyberteque on Dec 13, 2012, 12:37 am
His "day job" was being an apothecary and healer.