What's with the response to Sandy's victims ?

Nice to hear a more balanced view. Problem with news from afar - only the sensational part gets through.

[quote author=Coding Badly link=topic=131835.msg992910#msg992910 date=1352712746]
Criminals amongst refugees is a valid concern. For example, providing refuge for Katrina victims resulted in a very significant increase in murders (and other violent crimes) in Houston.
[/quote]Hmmm... was that infighting amongst the new residents?

Anyhow - back to the OT. There is a difference between the "general populace's" reaction and the offical goverment/state actions. I think Graynomad mostly thought of the latter. My comment was (kinda regret it) towards the former.

Msquare:
Problem with news from afar - only the sensational part gets through.

Also a problem with news from anear.

Hmmm... was that infighting amongst the new residents?

No. The murder rate increased for several years following the influx of refugees. My understanding is that it took a few years for Houston to "get back to even" after the huge increase in population; meaning there was a lack of things like probation officers to keep ex-cons on the straight-and-narrow.

For those living outside the U.S., bear in mind that our government is layered and delineated (we even fought a nasty war to determine where the delineation falls). Typically, the Federal Government can only act by permission from the state. In other words, the state of New Jersey must first (and formally) request assistance before any federal employees can provide assistance. The burden falls first to the governors. If the "government" is sluggish to respond it could be because the state government is sluggish.

Also bear in mind that electricity is provided by private companies. If the electricity has not been restored, in the short term, the government (federal or state) can do very little but complain publicly (embarrass company officials).

Graynomad:
Some good points there I think.

I live on solar and I think that empowers me (sorry :)) because I'm not dependant on any outside people.

There is a down side of course, that being that I can't depend on any outside people. If something breaks it's me that has to fix it.

Same goes with my plumbing, roofing, hydraulics, air systems, truck tyres, LPG, you name it.

Overall I like it that way, but there are times when I'd rather just pick up the phone, like now, I have a leaking pressure pump :frowning:


Rob

So wishing I could just call someone right now. Truck is busted, furnace is busted, septic is backed up into the sinks, and a boatload of college work to do. We're not complety self sufficient (still require sporadic heating oil and propane deliveries), but at least we have backup systems just in case. When the ice storm of '98 hit us, we just sat in our house for a week until the roads were cleared and the power restored. Rigged the furnace, sump pumps, and hot water heater to run off our generator, and played some games on my Playstation 1. We didn't rush out the night before to try to buy up supplies, and we aren't even "preppers". It amazes me how unprepared some people are. Their priorities are also questionable. I tried explaining how to make a simple DIY "portable" power pack (using the alternator in a car to charge the batteries, and give them a few hours of light/radio/heat inside their house) to some of them, and got b*tched at because it was too heavy for them to carry in their pockets. They opted to have friends buy iPhone chargers on Amazon and mail them to their house (those should be arriving in a few weeks).

Having grown up in rural Wisconsin, I was used to power outages and being cut off- on a regular basis. I remember the summer of 1976, when a cluster of downbursts and tornadoes hit the town- we were without power for nearly three weeks. I also remember the winter of 1984, when our power was out for two weeks and the temperatures were as low as ten below zero.

I now live in the suburbs of Boston, a very different environment. In 2008 a severe ice storm crippled much of new england, we were without power for about a week.. and it was far more difficult to handle than living rurally. First was the fact that although I have a fireplace (and dry wood, usually around a cord at any time), most of my neighbors don't. Within hours of power failing, we had neighbors and two friends sleeping on our living room floor for a week. Stores that didn't have power simply didn't open, and gas stations generally didn't have power for the pumps- therefore no gas. Add to that the simple fact that urban folks just don't have the resources in many cases- think about apartment buildings. It's pretty much a reality that anything over five stories will be uninhabitable simply because five stories of stairs is what most people are going to manage. They are city folk, don't camp- so they don't have a tent, and even if they did, there is only so much flat, dry, open ground.

Most of it is inexperience on the part of the populace, and also the sheer scale. Finding alternate living space for a thousand people is a herculean effort- but finding even basics for a million is nigh on impossible.

New York and New Orleans (maybe sticking with the old ones would be a good idea?) are perfect examples of the fact that today's urban populace simply could not live "in the wild". Personally, I am with WHO on keeping an eye on hospitals for water-borne illnesses at this point. Cholera in Queens. A single outbreak could be horrific.

In the 70s we had a truck blockade of Sydney (drivers wanted better conditions or something), within days there was panic.

We're not as far removed from total chaos as most people would like to think.

You guys get real life-threatening cold that compounds things. We never really get so cold that a good jacket can't handle it, one reason I like living up north.


Rob

Graynomad:
You guys get real life-threatening cold that compounds things. We never really get so cold that a good jacket can't handle it, one reason I like living up north.


Rob

I'm disappointed in myself. It took my mind a whole 5 minutes to figure out how you could get warmer by going north.

wizdum:

Graynomad:
You guys get real life-threatening cold that compounds things. We never really get so cold that a good jacket can't handle it, one reason I like living up north.


Rob

I'm disappointed in myself. It took my mind a whole 5 minutes to figure out how you could get warmer by going north.

Yea, and their toilet water when flushed spin backwards so we have to give them a lot of some leeway in their comments. :wink:
At least cold is cold and hot is hot so we can bank on that I guess.

Lefty

Hey, I can't help it if you blokes are upside down.


Rob

I'd rather have killer storms than killer bushfires...

I'm down in the city and I hate it, but I still go into panic mode for a second when I get a wiff of smoke.

Funny you should mention that, I can't see the hills at the moment for smoke. I hope it's just someone burning off.


Rob

nr Bundaberg

There's a place called Bundaberg?
Wow! - that's like finding there's a place called "Jack Daniels" or "Famous Grouse"!

Just where do you think the rum is made :slight_smile:

No good to me though, I can't stand the stuff.


Rob

Some day they totally privatize emergency services here. Then the people who are paid up get help until the profit margin drops and the service declares bankruptcy, leaving the government/taxpayers to pick up the tab as usual. Those who aren't paid up will be known as 'Cranicks' and be mocked by talk radio conservatives.
But that won't be happening soon. :grin:

Grey Nomad, what do you think of methane digesters? Any organic waste like kitchen scraps or vegetation off the roadside can in time make fuel, and the 'waste' liquid is good fertilizer. Unlike an aquaponics setup you can probably drive around with a decent size digester on your truck.

I don't really know anything about them. Many (some?) of our rubbish tips here have methane reclamation. I'm all for stuff that will make us more independent, I was going to beta test a grey water recycling system a few years ago, but they couldn't get it small enough.

As for Armageddon, I already have the Mad Max vehicle and 6 months supply of home brew ingredients, bring it on.


Rob

Check Youtube, search on methane digester.

Like this on, I link because his parting words on the science are worth a lot.

One thing I don't see is anyone using weather balloons to store methane or catch pressure release.

That looks interesting, we certainly have a lot of cow crap around here to get it started. Maybe when/if I settle down.


Rob

Why isn't the national guard and the Army all over these places like a rash with generators, fuel tankers, mess facilities with free hot meals, field hospitals, whatever is needed.

It is a question of what you think the role of the government should be.

There is a case to be made that people will remain stupid if stupidity is rewarded.

Many times, the best help you can give people is not to help them.

We already see the results when GREED is rewarded.

We already see the results when GREED is rewarded.

Yes, just look at all those people capitalism / greed has lifted out of poverty.

Oh good, a class warfare food fight right here on the Arduino forum. :roll_eyes:

Lefty