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Topic: Looks like we have clones that look real (Read 27286 times) previous topic - next topic

Peter_I

#60
Jun 13, 2013, 01:14 pm Last Edit: Jun 13, 2013, 02:01 pm by Peter_I Reason: 1
I bought one of these fakes from http://myworld.ebay.com/aura-communications/
Listing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/171038999986?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
(Note that it is an original on the photo, not the closely resembling copy that is shipped)
It is working as it should, and I honestly believed it to be the real thing (but suspiciously cheap and not delivered in the Arduino cardboard box)

The company is listed as Manchester, UK, and it was shipped from the UK.

Looking closer, it has the small signs listed, but apart from that, it is extremely close to the original.
"Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool"

pYro_65

I think it happens a lot. My first Uno is the same, perfect copy, except for "design in Italy", rather than "made in Italy" ( on the bottom ).

The e-bay listing you have posted caught my eye as it just has "in Italy". I did however receive a second one from a different seller and it was in a 'real' looking box, but not as high quality manufacturing.
Forum Mod anyone?
https://arduino.land/Moduino/

Peter_I

#62
Jun 13, 2013, 04:43 pm Last Edit: Jun 13, 2013, 04:51 pm by Peter_I Reason: 1
Pictures of my copy attached.
(Quite large pictures on purpose. The devil is in the detail)
"Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool"

bperrybap


Quote
I just wished that the designer hadn't put that block of pins on the Uno off grid by .05"... That makes home cloning hard. Maybe that's the reason...Massimo is afraid of "Cottage Competition"..   <BFG>
Sorry for the soliloquy about "Home Made"..


It wasn't a conscious design choice, but rather a error made on rush of ordering of the first batch of PCBs of the original arduino board. Once released and 3rd party shield developers began to ship they didn't feel it would be right to 'correct' the non-standard spacing and make all older shields incompatible.

Lefty

But they did consciously decide not to add a second set of unpopulated holes for those that would want
to populate them with their own header(s) to allow the use standard strip/protoboards.
Some of the 3rd party boards like the Seeeduino have this:
http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/seeeduino-v30-atmega-328p-p-669.html

The only saving grace of the header alignment scewup is that it prevents plugging in the shields backwards.
If I were the Arduino team, I'd be selling that as a feature....

--- bill

Peter_I

I just don't get the marketing idea in making an almost perfect copy (but not more perfect, than it can be spotted), then selling it suspiciously cheap.

People are still annoyed when they find out that it is a "fake".

If it was made in other colors and given another name, the misplaced header combined with a correctly placed header like on the seeduino.... It could still be sold at the same low price, would have a real advantage..... And should it break down, it would be OK, because it was what you bought.



"Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool"

Coding Badly

I just don't get the marketing idea in making an almost perfect copy (but not more perfect, than it can be spotted), then selling it suspiciously cheap.


The power of "search".  Go to ebay.com.  Search for "arduino".  At first glance the first hit appears to be authentic (but is not).  The price is good.  Presto.  Board sold.  They are feeding off the unwary.

Quote
People are still annoyed when they find out that it is a "fake".


If sales drop (e.g. because of annoyed customers) it is trivial to drop the ebay account and start a new one.  As long as there are people who are only concerned about the sale price vendors like "fastpcuser" have no reason to care that their customers are annoyed.

Quote
If it was made in other colors and given another name, the misplaced header combined with a correctly placed header like on the seeduino.... It could still be sold at the same low price, would have a real advantage...


No, it wouldn't.  There are easily a dozen vendors doing just what you've described (selling a [good] cheap clone).  The advantage to selling a cheap counterfeit is that it is irresistible to some people.

Peter_I

This is a little fun.

This "yourduino" is basically identical to the fake i bought:
http://yourduino.com/sunshop2/index.php?l=product_detail&p=386

It even has the same missing holes.
"Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool"

1ChicagoDave

That's called a "counterfeit" --

coun·ter·feit 

/?kount?r?fit/

Made in exact imitation of something valuable or important with the intention to deceive or defraud.

A fraudulent imitation of something else; a forgery.

false - spurious - bogus - mock - sham - forged - phoney - forgery - fake - falsification - imitation - sham - forge - fake - falsify - imitate - simulate - feign

"Clones" are okay, encouraged, and often supported. Counterfeits are intentially misleading....a lie. And, once purchased, you're on your own if quality sucks or if it damages something else.

I can't stand counterfeit products of any type -- electronics, clothing, purses, etc...  The people that sell them are thieves, making money off of other people's hard work & reputation, and have zero accountability. Counterfeiters are a cancer on society.

Please, do not encourage or support these people.  Spend a few more dollars and purchase authentic items....whether "Arduino" or otherwise.

Thank you!



Peter_I

#68
Jul 31, 2013, 10:10 am Last Edit: Jul 31, 2013, 10:16 am by Peter_I Reason: 1
Another counterfeit from evilbay:

http://viewitem.eim.ebay.dk/Arduino-UNO-Rev3-R3-328-ATMEGA328P-Mini-Board-with-Free-USB-Cable-UK/171052169601/item

The "not custom made green fuse" can just be seen. It is passed off as the real deal, but definitely is not.

And another one:
http://viewitem.eim.ebay.dk/Arduino-UNO-R3-With-FREE-USB-Cable--Atmega328-robotics/171079594591/item
"Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool"

Paul__B

#69
Jul 31, 2013, 01:23 pm Last Edit: Jul 31, 2013, 01:58 pm by Paul__B Reason: 1
Not wishing to be provocative but ...

I confess that I have been buying a number of these clones knowing that they clearly are not the original.

The thing is  - the CPU is the same chip (or is there a manufacturer producing counterfeit ATMega328s?), the resistors are the same, the capacitors are the same, the other components are the same and the polyfuse just as functional (or does Italy make these components?).  As best I can figure, the PCBs are made in the same factories, perhaps not in Italy, that make much of our other consumer goods.

The question then is, why would one of these "clone" or indeed, counterfeit boards, perform in any way different to the genuine Italian one?  With the same components?  Of course, you can bring up warranty matters, though if you run the thing and download a (slightly) different sketch as a test when you receive it (as I do), test the voltages if you fancy getting a little more thorough or run it with the LCD shield, then the nature of such electronics is that if it works initially, it is likely to operate a long time before it fails.
Code: [Select]
/*
 Blink_Faster
 Turns LED on for 5/8 second, then off, on, off for 1/8 second each, repeatedly.

 This example code is in the public domain.
*/

void setup() {                
 // initialize the digital pin as an output.
 // Pin 13 has an LED connected on most Arduino boards:
 pinMode(13, OUTPUT);    
}

void loop() {
 digitalWrite(13, HIGH);   // set the LED on
 delay(625);              // wait for a second
 digitalWrite(13, LOW);    // set the LED off
 delay(125);              // wait for a second
 digitalWrite(13, HIGH);   // set the LED on
 delay(125);              // wait for a second
 digitalWrite(13, LOW);    // set the LED off
 delay(125);              // wait for a second
}


As to "support" - the fact is, the vendors hardly need to because that is on the Arduino site (and others), including this :).  If some boards do vary a little in their implementation, that can usually be worked through as long as you have the basic circuit to hand.

There is some fairness in the notion that it is an open source project and the more novice users are well served to purchase the full-price materials - with support - from the authorised dealers while others avail themselves of the cheaper versions - as with all the other junk on eBay and in our "Two Dollar" shops.  I certainly know and knew (well, presumed) from the start that the cheap versions I am buying are not the original (even though one exactly as cited in the posting above is indeed labelled "Made in Italy" on both sides; the "WWW.ARDUINO.CC" reference I tend to interpret more as a helpful pointer to the project information than a manufacturing claim of authenticity) while I tend to treat "Arduino" in much the same fashion as "Band-Aid".

Clearly this is more of an argument and concern regarding deception than reliability or anything else.

jonrobertd

Ok, so according to the green 5x5 polyfuse, I have two fake mega2560 boards from Amazon.com! Will post pics and a link later to confirm, then will be contacting amazon.  They shipped in an antistatic bag, with a blue USB cable.

1ChicagoDave

Quote
The thing is  - the CPU is the same chip (or is there a manufacturer producing counterfeit ATMega328s?)

Who cares if it's counterfeit or not? As long as it works like it should, they can put any name on it they wish....right?

Quote
As to "support" - the fact is, the vendors hardly need to because that is on the Arduino site (and others), including this .  


Yep! And because it's so cheap & easy to setup & maintain these websites & forums....why bother buying product from the people who do that? (Servers don't cost anything, right?)

Quote
The question then is, why would one of these "clone" or indeed, counterfeit boards, perform in any way different to the genuine Italian one?

You're right. What's the big deal?
While we're on the subject, I've got a few more similar questions that have been bugging me --

• If this counterfeit money buys the same stuff as real, legitimate money...(it "performs the same")...why shouldn't we all just make our own "clone" dollar bills?

• If forged paintings look about the same as the original...why are they illegal? They're both just paint on canvas?

• As long as the answers on my test get me a passing grade....who cares if I "cloned" them from someone else's test?

• Why do people have a favorite baseball/sports team? They all do the same thing. I just go to whatever game is the cheapest.


Thank you so much for showing us how silly it is to support the people that contribute their own time & money to create something original for us, and why we should instead support the ones that just make the cheapest, functional, copies of those things.

Coding Badly

#72
Jul 31, 2013, 07:45 pm Last Edit: Jul 31, 2013, 09:25 pm by Coding Badly Reason: 1
Not wishing to be provocative but ...
I confess that I have been buying a number of these clones knowing that they clearly are not the original.
Clearly this is more of an argument and concern regarding deception than reliability or anything else.


This forum is kept running by the Arduino folks.  They can keep it running because people buy products from them.  If everyone follows your lead, they run out of money and this forum gets shut down.

The Arduino folks have always made a commitment to...
http://blog.arduino.cc/2009/10/13/arduino-manufacturing-and-carbon-neutrality/

They help people learn...
http://arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/HomePage
http://playground.arduino.cc/Main/ManualsAndCurriculum

I assume that you...
- Do not care if this forum continues
- Have no concern for the environment around you
- Do not care if the next generation benefits

fungus


As to "support" - the fact is, the vendors hardly need to because that is on the Arduino site (and others), including this :).


The support is free, the servers aren't.

And...who's going to develop the next generation of Arduinos?

etc.
No, I don't answer questions sent in private messages (but I do accept thank-you notes...)

alnath

#74
Aug 01, 2013, 01:18 am Last Edit: Aug 01, 2013, 01:49 am by Coding Badly Reason: 1

Ok, so according to the green 5x5 polyfuse, I have two fake mega2560 boards from Amazon.com! Will post pics and a link later to confirm, then will be contacting amazon.  They shipped in an antistatic bag, with a blue USB cable.

I confess I bought one from amazon, same green fuse, same packaging, but it was not an illegal clone, it is a (reference to company selling counterfeit product removed by moderator), identified as (reference to company selling counterfeit product removed by moderator), not arduino . I bought it because I needed another device that arduino had not in stock, and I didn't want to pay 2 shipments, but, for the same reasons as Coding Badly, I try to buy only originals, and never bought a counterfeit board ! If it is really cheaper and claims it is an original, than it is a copy  ;)

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