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Products => Arduino Due => Topic started by: okay1984 on Nov 01, 2012, 03:44 am

Title: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: okay1984 on Nov 01, 2012, 03:44 am
(http://www.thetonywang.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Arduino-Due-Diff-499x600.jpg)

Hey guys,

   I'm going to manufacture few pieces of Due PCB boards, but I'm really confusing about this above. The small chip 74LVC1G125DCK has been moved to left bottom corner. Seems that's the right position.

   The current EAGLE file released on Due production page matches the second one board in that picture. So it's not the latest one.

   Hope Arduino team release the latest one soon.

Best,
Tony
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: CrossRoads on Nov 01, 2012, 06:30 am
"I'm going to manufacture few pieces of Due PCB boards"

Why?
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: okay1984 on Nov 01, 2012, 06:34 am

"I'm going to manufacture few pieces of Due PCB boards"

Why?


Because I can't buy it, "Not in Stock".
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: io53 on Nov 01, 2012, 12:16 pm
My Due has the chip on the same place as 'the current one'. If you live in EU this place got 3 Due in stock http://www.robomaa.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1001_1020&products_id=1245
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: stimmer on Nov 01, 2012, 12:46 pm
That's interesting - mine has the chip in the same place as "the first release".
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: pico on Nov 01, 2012, 01:06 pm

That's interesting - mine has the chip in the same place as "the first release".


To be clear -- you've got a board with the small IC10 component located between the header pins, rather than located in lower left quadrant of the board?
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: stimmer on Nov 01, 2012, 01:20 pm


That's interesting - mine has the chip in the same place as "the first release".


To be clear -- you've got a board with the small IC10 component located between the header pins, rather than located in lower left quadrant of the board?


Yes that's exactly where it is, between the headers. There's no physical or electrical problem with it being there, the board works fine and it's impossible to accidentally touch it as it's so well guarded by the headers. It just looks like it could be a source of trouble for pick and place.

The voltage supply header is so close to the large capacitor that they are touching and the header has been bent slightly off vertical (similar to the photo if you look closely). Shields still fit in OK though.
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: mikeZ337 on Nov 01, 2012, 01:40 pm
on my Due board is the IC10 located between the header pins. In difference to the 2nd picture in the first post, Y2 is not populated.
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: franceslup on Nov 01, 2012, 01:52 pm
Why there are this differences? I also have the IC10 between the headers...
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: Markus_L811 on Nov 01, 2012, 03:49 pm

(http://www.thetonywang.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Arduino-Due-Diff-499x600.jpg)

Hey guys,

   I'm going to manufacture few pieces of Due PCB boards, but I'm really confusing about this above. The small chip 74LVC1G125DCK has been moved to left bottom corner. Seems that's the right position.

   The current EAGLE file released on Due production page matches the second one board in that picture. So it's not the latest one.

   Hope Arduino team release the latest one soon.

Best,
Tony


There are more diffs:
- above the  ISCP from the 16U2 are the Solderspots named for Aref Intern or extern
- near the TWI pins the JTAG header is present not only the holes
- left from the SAM the external crystal (Y2) for the RTC-Modul is missing

Think thats all at the first view.

The position of the little IC is in my opinion not worse but the crystal for the RTC would be nice to have, the labeling from the Aref is nicely
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: franceslup on Nov 01, 2012, 05:25 pm
Reading this post    http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/topic,129880.0.html   it seems that the model with IC10 beetwen headers is the last one .
The photo on the website is an older model.
Is it true?
and why there are different version of the board if is still sold out and we bought the same board at the same moment :S ?
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: goncalor on Nov 01, 2012, 05:58 pm

and why there are different version of the board if is still sold out and we bought the same board at the same moment :S ?


That's a good question... My Due's already arrived and I'll collect it tommorow. Now I'm really curious to see which of the versions it is...
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: franceslup on Nov 01, 2012, 06:06 pm


and why there are different version of the board if is still sold out and we bought the same board at the same moment :S ?


That's a good question... My Due's already arrived and I'll collect it tommorow. Now I'm really curious to see which of the versions it is...

let us know... :D
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: Markus_L811 on Nov 01, 2012, 06:16 pm



and why there are different version of the board if is still sold out and we bought the same board at the same moment :S ?


That's a good question... My Due's already arrived and I'll collect it tommorow. Now I'm really curious to see which of the versions it is...

let us know... :D


It's an question too, where you bye it, from the Arduino Store or somewhere else, maybe there is an first pullout with different design or the first pullout to the other reseller is different to the first pullout buyed from the Arduino Store.
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: franceslup on Nov 01, 2012, 06:30 pm




and why there are different version of the board if is still sold out and we bought the same board at the same moment :S ?


That's a good question... My Due's already arrived and I'll collect it tommorow. Now I'm really curious to see which of the versions it is...

let us know... :D


It's an question too, where you bye it, from the Arduino Store or somewhere else, maybe there is an first pullout with different design or the first pullout to the other reseller is different to the first pullout buyed from the Arduino Store.


I bought the arduino DUE during the first minute of release and of course on the arduino store!!! I'm in italy and resellers at today, haven't the board! i don't think it's a good idea to sold the same board but with different version... would you be happy if you know that you paid the same money like other people but you received an "old" version (maybe a previous review) ??? i don't think so... and why there is alredy a review???
Of course... i'm just supposing that the two different version represent a sort of review...
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: franceslup on Nov 01, 2012, 06:45 pm
another thing... my board has the IC10 between header but has other things like the other version... it seems to be a mix of the two version in the photo :O
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: franceslup on Nov 01, 2012, 06:52 pm
i mean...
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: mikeZ337 on Nov 01, 2012, 06:56 pm

i mean...

i have the same version.
My store was: https://shop.boxtec.ch/
Shipping was on 24. Oct
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: franceslup on Nov 01, 2012, 06:58 pm


i mean...

i have the same version.
My store was: https://shop.boxtec.ch/
Shipping was on 24. Oct

the same of the mine?
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: mikeZ337 on Nov 01, 2012, 06:58 pm
yes
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: franceslup on Nov 01, 2012, 07:03 pm
instead of this... my DUE work's perfectly :D
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: Markus_L811 on Nov 01, 2012, 07:23 pm

i mean...

Looks for me like an first release without the RTC-crystal because the Aref labeling is missing too.
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: franceslup on Nov 01, 2012, 08:36 pm


i mean...

Looks for me like an first release without the RTC-crystal because the Aref labeling is missing too.

and why they sold out this board??? We bought all together at the same prize, the SAME board... but they are different...
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: io53 on Nov 01, 2012, 08:50 pm

and why they sold out this board??? We bought all together at the same prize, the SAME board... but they are different...


The differences are so small that it doesn't matter.
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: ESLEagleEye on Nov 01, 2012, 09:15 pm


and why they sold out this board??? We bought all together at the same prize, the SAME board... but they are different...


The differences are so small that it doesn't matter.


I think a missing crystal is a huge difference. Especially for people who wanted to use the SAMs RTC.
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: franceslup on Nov 01, 2012, 09:21 pm



and why they sold out this board??? We bought all together at the same prize, the SAME board... but they are different...


The differences are so small that it doesn't matter.


I think a missing crystal is a huge difference. Especially for people who wanted to use the SAMs RTC.

Yes...!
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: io53 on Nov 01, 2012, 09:33 pm

I think a missing crystal is a huge difference. Especially for people who wanted to use the SAMs RTC.


Yes, well if they added the crystal I'd have to agree that it makes a difference, but they have removed it so there will not be any support for using it. Has someone actually gotten a board with the crystal? If then it's just a very small number of boards that has it.

(Don't get me wrong, I'd like the crystal too. But I'm sure they had their reasons for removing it.)
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: ESLEagleEye on Nov 01, 2012, 09:40 pm

But I'm sure they had their reasons for removing it.)


Hopefully not just saving 20 Cents. -.-


Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: goncalor on Nov 01, 2012, 11:49 pm



and why there are different version of the board if is still sold out and we bought the same board at the same moment :S ?


That's a good question... My Due's already arrived and I'll collect it tommorow. Now I'm really curious to see which of the versions it is...

let us know... :D


All right, I'll let you know :) (I don't grant you it will be tommorow though...)


It's an question too, where you bye it, from the Arduino Store or somewhere else, maybe there is an first pullout with different design or the first pullout to the other reseller is different to the first pullout buyed from the Arduino Store.


I bought it from this store http://www.ptrobotics.com . It's one of the stores in Arduino's Distributors page http://arduino.cc/en/Main/Buy .
From what I know I believe 5 Dues were dispatched to this store right after it went on sale. They arrived there sometime between thursday and friday on the release week.
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: Markus_L811 on Nov 02, 2012, 07:09 am


I think a missing crystal is a huge difference. Especially for people who wanted to use the SAMs RTC.


Yes, well if they added the crystal I'd have to agree that it makes a difference, but they have removed it so there will not be any support for using it. Has someone actually gotten a board with the crystal? If then it's just a very small number of boards that has it.

(Don't get me wrong, I'd like the crystal too. But I'm sure they had their reasons for removing it.)

The RTC can be used just without the cystal you can choose in the register to use external or internal clock
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: okay1984 on Nov 02, 2012, 09:20 am



I think a missing crystal is a huge difference. Especially for people who wanted to use the SAMs RTC.


Yes, well if they added the crystal I'd have to agree that it makes a difference, but they have removed it so there will not be any support for using it. Has someone actually gotten a board with the crystal? If then it's just a very small number of boards that has it.

(Don't get me wrong, I'd like the crystal too. But I'm sure they had their reasons for removing it.)

The RTC can be used just without the cystal you can choose in the register to use external or internal clock


Good to know.

Thanks, man.

Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: Markus_L811 on Nov 02, 2012, 09:48 am




I think a missing crystal is a huge difference. Especially for people who wanted to use the SAMs RTC.


Yes, well if they added the crystal I'd have to agree that it makes a difference, but they have removed it so there will not be any support for using it. Has someone actually gotten a board with the crystal? If then it's just a very small number of boards that has it.

(Don't get me wrong, I'd like the crystal too. But I'm sure they had their reasons for removing it.)

The RTC can be used just without the cystal you can choose in the register to use external or internal clock


Good to know.

Thanks, man.


No problem.
http://www.atmel.com/Images/doc11057.pdf (http://www.atmel.com/Images/doc11057.pdf) at Page 248
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: stimmer on Nov 02, 2012, 01:15 pm
I tried this but unfortunately it looks like the internal RC oscillator isn't nearly accurate enough. Mine is about 10% slow :(

Code: [Select]

void setup()
{
  Serial.begin(9600);
}

union urtc {
  struct {
    byte secs,mins,hrs,pad;
  } time;
  long dat;
} rtc;

byte BCD2bin(byte b){return (b&15)+((b>>4)*10);}

void loop()
{
  rtc.dat=RTC->RTC_TIMR;
 
  Serial.print("At the third stroke, it will be ");
  Serial.print(BCD2bin(rtc.time.hrs));
  Serial.print(":");
  Serial.print(BCD2bin(rtc.time.mins));
  Serial.print(":");
  Serial.print(BCD2bin(rtc.time.secs));
  Serial.println(" imprecisely.");
}
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: Nantonos on Nov 03, 2012, 12:29 am
My Due (bought  from arduino.cc store within minutes of the store being updated after the announcement) has IC10 between the headers, no JTAG header, and a missing RTC crystal. It arrived on Monday 29 Oct, but I just saw it today as I was away all week.
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: hiduino on Nov 03, 2012, 02:41 am
I just received two Due's in today.  They were ordered from the Arduino Store the same day it was listed online.  They both look just like the "current one" in the first photo.

(http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=130125.0;attach=28509;image)
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: pico on Nov 12, 2012, 05:57 am
So: after all this discussion, has there been any official response as to a) whether the the currently downloadable reference files are indeed for the final release version, and b), why it is being reported that there are (at least!) two board versions being sold in the first batches of the Due available to the public?

It would be useful for any board variants that are being sold to be identified (r1.0, r 1.1, r1.2, etc.) and differences documented to assist in bug tracking, etc.
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: neslekkim on Nov 12, 2012, 01:32 pm

I just received two Due's in today.  They were ordered from the Arduino Store the same day it was listed online.  They both look just like the "current one" in the first photo.


What??, did you get yours with the jtag header presoldered?, the place for mine is filled with solder..
And your have marking around the atmega ICSP header, unlike mine, I took an picture of that part here:
http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/topic,128464.msg992419.html#msg992419

It seems like yours also have an small chip to the left, under the atmega, that I don't have..

How come these differences?
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: neslekkim on Nov 12, 2012, 01:47 pm

Reading this post    http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/topic,129880.0.html   it seems that the model with IC10 beetwen headers is the last one .
The photo on the website is an older model.
Is it true?
and why there are different version of the board if is still sold out and we bought the same board at the same moment :S ?


It's strange if that is the last board, since it lacks the markings for orientation on the ICSP header next to the ATMega.
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: graynomad on Nov 12, 2012, 03:46 pm
Quote
has there been any official response as to a) whether the the currently downloadable reference files are indeed for the final release version, and b), why it is being reported that there are (at least!) two board versions being sold in the first batches of the Due available to the public?

a) No
b) No

You were perhaps expecting feedback from the Arduino team? While they have posted more times in the last couple of weeks than in the entire history of this forum they still pretty much ignore us.

I did see Massimo give a non-explanation on another similar thread I think, something about we haven't got around to uploading the right PCB file or similar. I rather cynically suggested that may to give them a head start on the clone makers, I can think of no other reason to delay a 2-minute job like uploading a file. Mind you I wouldn't blame them if that is the case, they must get sick of people profiting from their hard work at their expense.

______
Rob

Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: mbanzi on Nov 12, 2012, 04:30 pm
The file available on the website is the latest available design file for the Arduino Due.
As far as I know this is the file used to generate the production files.
I will investigate further and update the file if necessary.

Consider that the factory will apply some minor tweaks to our reference design before going to productions (usually with their own CAM software) therefore some minor differences are possible.

A possible answer for b) is that the factory normally has two stages of manufacturing, a first batch where many steps are still sort of "handmade" to make sure the process is smooth then they move on to large scale manufacturing where they might introduce some more tweaks (usually to make it easier for them to do automated testing, optimising the pick and place machine programming )


@graynomad
We're not ignoring anybody. you have to keep into account that we are bombarded by communications from all sided and it's not easy to be on top of everything realtime.

You seem fairly negative in most of your messages, is that anything we can do to cheer you up? :)

m
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: graynomad on Nov 12, 2012, 05:06 pm
Sorry Massimo, the older I get the grumpier and more cynical I get. Mostly I try to be helpful but I confess to being negative at times, especially with regard to documentation.

You guys are doing a great job and I can only imaging the stuff you have to deal with every day. I'll be more positive in future, honest :)

______
Rob
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: mbanzi on Nov 12, 2012, 05:26 pm
Graynomad

thanks for the support!

Do criticise our work in a productive way, keep us on our toes :)

now back to the geeky stuff ;)

m
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: goncalor on Nov 12, 2012, 05:38 pm
I just unpacked my Due :) Mine is the "old" version.
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: neslekkim on Nov 12, 2012, 07:53 pm
The only thing I really could wish for now Massimo, is an decent pinout schema. I have been struggling the whole weekend to make SPI work, and finally found the one in the forums here, but it's not complete, so I mixed spi for SAM with spi on the doublerow output, and could not understand a thing..
All boards should have that, easily available on the productpage. The pinout list, is kinda ok, but I have no clue to where pin 74 (or what the number was) is.

And, Why do someone get boards with the ic between the headers (like me), and someone gets with the ic close to the power jack?, what is the old layout, and the new/current layout?
The reason I ask, is that on my board, I don't have the pins in the jtag solderen, the holes are filled with solder, and the icsp close to the 16u2 is not marked for orientation... so which way to put the plug?
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: CrossRoads on Nov 12, 2012, 08:12 pm
Put a multimeter on it &  buzz it out. Its not hard. ICSP only has 1 GND pin, its pin 6, opposite corner is pin 1.
Do similar with the JTAG header.  Read the schematic, buzz out for the VCC pin, go from there.
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: neslekkim on Nov 12, 2012, 08:19 pm

Put a multimeter on it &  buzz it out. Its not hard. ICSP only has 1 GND pin, its pin 6, opposite corner is pin 1.
Do similar with the JTAG header.  Read the schematic, buzz out for the VCC pin, go from there.


maybe a bit OT, but
on the pinout picture, it's noted that some gnd is for analog, some is for digital, so I guess, not all gnd is the same?, or?

And, no risk of destroying the board with my multimeter? (Wish I had an Logic Analyzer, but)
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: io53 on Nov 12, 2012, 10:31 pm

The file available on the website is the latest available design file for the Arduino Due.
As far as I know this is the file used to generate the production files.
I will investigate further and update the file if necessary.

Consider that the factory will apply some minor tweaks to our reference design before going to productions (usually with their own CAM software) therefore some minor differences are possible.

A possible answer for b) is that the factory normally has two stages of manufacturing, a first batch where many steps are still sort of "handmade" to make sure the process is smooth then they move on to large scale manufacturing where they might introduce some more tweaks (usually to make it easier for them to do automated testing, optimising the pick and place machine programming )


The Y2 oscillator is in the schematics but is missing on the actual board. May I ask why you removed it? I hardly think that the manufacturer just left it out to make life easier for them :>.
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: CrossRoads on Nov 12, 2012, 11:25 pm
@neslekkim, for ICSP & JTAG, that will be digital ground for sure. Measure for continuity with the Power Header +5 & Gnd.
You will  not damage anything.
All the GNDs are connected together. I see no indication of analog ground on the schematic or in the board artwork.
There are three small areas of the top  & bottom planes that +5v and +3.3V. Every other part of the plane is just ID'd as GND.
This is apparently  a 4 layer board. One inner layer is a ground plane (with 1 signal trace!), and one is power plane (also with 1 signal trace!).  Mosty 3.3V, but also some UCB VCC and some 5V. Interessting.

Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: neslekkim on Nov 12, 2012, 11:32 pm
Ah, ok, I got a bit confused on this picture: http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/topic,128464.0.html
The GND next to 3v3 and 5v is marked as "use for analog ground"
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: CrossRoads on Nov 13, 2012, 12:20 am
That does keep it close to the Analog pins. But all the grounds are still connected.
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: mbanzi on Nov 13, 2012, 01:27 am
io53 i will ask
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: Markus_L811 on Nov 13, 2012, 05:30 pm

I just received two Due's in today.  They were ordered from the Arduino Store the same day it was listed online.  They both look just like the "current one" in the first photo.

(http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=130125.0;attach=28509;image)

Yes get the same today works like charme
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: Markus_L811 on Nov 13, 2012, 05:31 pm

The file available on the website is the latest available design file for the Arduino Due.
As far as I know this is the file used to generate the production files.
I will investigate further and update the file if necessary.

Consider that the factory will apply some minor tweaks to our reference design before going to productions (usually with their own CAM software) therefore some minor differences are possible.

A possible answer for b) is that the factory normally has two stages of manufacturing, a first batch where many steps are still sort of "handmade" to make sure the process is smooth then they move on to large scale manufacturing where they might introduce some more tweaks (usually to make it easier for them to do automated testing, optimising the pick and place machine programming )


@graynomad
We're not ignoring anybody. you have to keep into account that we are bombarded by communications from all sided and it's not easy to be on top of everything realtime.

You seem fairly negative in most of your messages, is that anything we can do to cheer you up? :)

m

That did not explain that the crystal for the RTC is missing
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: Markus_L811 on Nov 13, 2012, 09:02 pm
Who has one with the RTC Crystal can tell me what on the surface so I can order me one by my self
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: io53 on Nov 13, 2012, 09:39 pm

Who has one with the RTC Crystal can tell me what on the surface so I can order me one by my self


I don't think there is a due that has the crystal. No one has reported that they have gotten one.
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: Nantonos on Nov 14, 2012, 06:48 am

Ah, ok, I got a bit confused on this picture: http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/topic,128464.0.html
The GND next to 3v3 and 5v is marked as "use for analog ground"


Yes. That is more of a 'serving suggestion'. If you have a bunch of of-board digital circuitry, and also a bunch of off-board analog circuitry that will be feeding the built-in ADC, it helps to keep digital hash out of the analog circuits by using the GND pins right next to the ADC inputs as an analog ground. (Also by using  aseparate 5V or 3V circuitry, perhaps using screened cable, unity gain buffers, and so on).

On the board though these five GND pins are all commoned together. There is not an inductor-isolated, separate analog ground on the board itself.

The photo in that thead will be replaced by Graynomad's much more detailed diagram, so there is probably little point in my updating it to clarify the 'use for' part.
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: neslekkim on Nov 14, 2012, 12:24 pm
Ah, ok then I understand.
Yes, the new layout looks like it will be very good, not that yours wasn't, but placing all extrainformation like what Graynomad is doing now is great.
Then it's up to all of us to check if it is correct.

Would be fantastic if some of the people behind Arduino also was a part of this..
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: Nantonos on Nov 14, 2012, 07:37 pm

Ah, ok then I understand.
Yes, the new layout looks like it will be very good, not that yours wasn't, but placing all extrainformation like what Graynomad is doing now is great.


I'm happy that there is a better version available to the community.


Would be fantastic if some of the people behind Arduino also was a part of this..


Yes. One could argue that they are in the best position to document these things and check them.
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: Markus_L811 on Dec 01, 2012, 02:29 pm

(http://www.thetonywang.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Arduino-Due-Diff-499x600.jpg)

Hey guys,

   I'm going to manufacture few pieces of Due PCB boards, but I'm really confusing about this above. The small chip 74LVC1G125DCK has been moved to left bottom corner. Seems that's the right position.

   The current EAGLE file released on Due production page matches the second one board in that picture. So it's not the latest one.

   Hope Arduino team release the latest one soon.

Best,
Tony


And the Story goes on,

I have buy just for fun an secound Due from ebay. And now there are the diff.

(http://s14.directupload.net/images/121201/6r44i2x2.jpg)

On the Due from ebay is everything the same, the box, the sticker and the package insert it looks in all way like the actuell one with all labels on the surface, except one part it has the Crystal for the RTC on the surface.

With this I have make an test I used stimmers Sketch for the http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/topic,130125.msg980484.html#msg980484 (http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/topic,130125.msg980484.html#msg980484) RTC and put this in the void setup to use the external Crystal.

Code: [Select]

#define SUPC_KEY   0xA5u

void setup() {
 Serial.begin(9600);
 SUPC->SUPC_CR |= SUPC_CR_KEY(SUPC_KEY) | SUPC_CR_XTALSEL;
}


So there we are if I used the internal RC the RTC lost 5sec in 1 Min so it is nearly 10% to slow with the external Crystal is goes sync with my PC clock.
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: neslekkim on Dec 01, 2012, 02:44 pm
and I don't understand why all of you get Due's with proper markings and even the jtag header soldered.

Seems like one is better off buying from ebay than through official channels, what a shame.
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: stimmer on Dec 01, 2012, 03:05 pm
Thanks, that's useful to know. Could you have a close look under a magnifying glass and tell me if the capacitors next to the crystal are also missing? I'd probably be able to solder the crystal back on if I needed it, but the capacitors would be impossible.

The only situation where this would be important is if someone needs real-time accuracy in low-power mode (otherwise the RTC can be emulated in software). It would be interesting to see how much power the Due takes with the SAM3X in a very low-power state.
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: Markus_L811 on Dec 01, 2012, 03:10 pm
Quote
Thanks, that's useful to know. Could you have a close look under a magnifying glass and tell me if the capacitors next to the crystal are also missing? I'd probably be able to solder the crystal back on if I needed it, but the capacitors would be impossible.

I can,

From Arduino Store now Crystal no capacitors.

From eBay Crystal and capacitors.
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: cyclegadget on Dec 01, 2012, 03:14 pm

and I don't understand why all of you get Due's with proper markings and even the jtag header soldered.

Seems like one is better off buying from ebay than through official channels, what a shame.


The Due I received from Mouser has the crystal and the JTAG header.
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: pico on Dec 01, 2012, 05:02 pm
I'm still confused. What does the (supposedly official) schematic on the downloads page indicate? RTC xtal or not?

If it is present in the schematic but not on (some) of the boards, what does that mean? Manufacturing goof-ups?

I must admit if plunked down the dough for one of these things at the full official list price, I'd be annoyed if I got one that didn't have the RTC. For $49 + shipping and taxes (and possibly more, depending on where you live) I'd expect something fairly premium, with all the bells and whistles. After all, not exactly cheap for uC dev board, considering the alternatives...

Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: graynomad on Dec 01, 2012, 05:25 pm
Quote
What does the (supposedly official) schematic on the downloads page indicate? RTC xtal or not?

The schematic shows the RTC xtal. There is no DNP (do not populate) or similar annotation so if they are not on a delivered PCB I'd say you have cause to complain if you need it.

______
Rob
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: neslekkim on Dec 01, 2012, 06:07 pm

I must admit if plunked down the dough for one of these things at the full official list price, I'd be annoyed if I got one that didn't have the RTC. For $49 + shipping and taxes (and possibly more, depending on where you live) I'd expect something fairly premium, with all the bells and whistles. After all, not exactly cheap for uC dev board, considering the alternatives...


Excactly. I'm dropping this crap, heading in the stm32 direction again instead.
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: stimmer on Dec 01, 2012, 07:23 pm

Quote
Thanks, that's useful to know. Could you have a close look under a magnifying glass and tell me if the capacitors next to the crystal are also missing? I'd probably be able to solder the crystal back on if I needed it, but the capacitors would be impossible.

I can,

From Arduino Store now Crystal no capacitors.

From eBay Crystal and capacitors.


Thanks again.

I tried soldering on a watch crystal by itself and it is not enough - in fact it is worse, only 42 seconds per minute! With capacitors it runs at a more conventional 60 seconds per minute :) But there is no easy place to solder the capacitors on (I was literally holding them between the crystal and the shielding of the USB port, which can't have helped the accuracy much).
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: Markus_L811 on Dec 01, 2012, 07:37 pm
Quote

Thanks again.

I tried soldering on a watch crystal by itself and it is not enough - in fact it is worse, only 42 seconds per minute! With capacitors it runs at a more conventional 60 seconds per minute :) But there is no easy place to solder the capacitors on (I was literally holding them between the crystal and the shielding of the USB port, which can't have helped the accuracy much).


Capacitors are really really important for the Crystal to work proper, they needed that the main frequenz of the Crystal swing. On page 1407 of the full SAM3xa is an formel to choose the right value.
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: neslekkim on Dec 01, 2012, 08:33 pm
Do we really need to calculate this??? on an product that is randomly shipped with or without crystal?, with or without headers?, with or without labelling on the board?
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: Markus_L811 on Dec 01, 2012, 08:50 pm

Do we really need to calculate this??? on an product that is randomly shipped with or without crystal?, with or without headers?, with or without labelling on the board?

Wrong question its not the point if you get an board with or without an crystal, if you want an working crystal/RTC with the most possible accuraty you need the right capacitors. So the question is what is the right value. In the schematic the value are 22pF but the Spec says max is 20pF...
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: neslekkim on Dec 01, 2012, 09:05 pm
Well, I bought a board, that I expect to be complete.
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: Markus_L811 on Dec 01, 2012, 11:00 pm

Well, I bought a board, that I expect to be complete.


Yes right, but if you look at all pictures from the Due on the Arduino pages, the Main or the Product Page, no picture shows an Board with an Crystal on it, so I think more and more the one with an Crystal an anormaly. And older pre Final boards are not relevant for the final release, its an another question why they decided to release them without the Crystal. How Boards without the final marks on the surface are getting to customers is an mystery from the mail-order. May it can solved...
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: neslekkim on Dec 02, 2012, 12:11 am
yes, but my board doesn't look like those pictures either....
No jtag heade, no markings on the icsp header, and I have that chip between the headers at rx0 and tx3..
And I cannot make that crappy spi to work, so it's like I got some unwanted orphan.
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: Markus_L811 on Dec 02, 2012, 02:44 pm
Let me count:

We have the official (IC10 near Atmel 16U2) in 2 versions (with crystal/no crystal)

The Old one (IC10 between headers)

and several other...

need pictures to say what is what

:~
Title: Re: Which one is the working Due version?
Post by: AndreyS on Feb 26, 2016, 10:27 pm
And the Story goes on,

I have buy just for fun an secound Due from ebay. And now there are the diff.

(http://s14.directupload.net/images/121201/6r44i2x2.jpg)

On the Due from ebay is everything the same, the box, the sticker and the package insert it looks in all way like the actuell one with all labels on the surface, except one part it has the Crystal for the RTC on the surface.

With this I have make an test I used stimmers Sketch for the http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/topic,130125.msg980484.html#msg980484 (http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/topic,130125.msg980484.html#msg980484) RTC and put this in the void setup to use the external Crystal.

Code: [Select]

#define SUPC_KEY   0xA5u

void setup() {
  Serial.begin(9600);
  SUPC->SUPC_CR |= SUPC_CR_KEY(SUPC_KEY) | SUPC_CR_XTALSEL;
}


So there we are if I used the internal RC the RTC lost 5sec in 1 Min so it is nearly 10% to slow with the external Crystal is goes sync with my PC clock.
I have exactly the same Due without RTC oscillator. Could anybody point me to the reference design (eagle file) for that exact board?