Arduino Forum

Development => Suggestions for the Arduino Project => Topic started by: bahex on Jul 09, 2012, 07:55 am

Title: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: bahex on Jul 09, 2012, 07:55 am
Hi guys,

I was reading about the Arduino Due and about the plans to release it at the end of 2011.
Is it still in progress and when do you plan to release it?

Thanks in advance

BaHeX
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: graynomad on Jul 09, 2012, 05:14 pm
Quote
plans to release it at the end of 2011.

And we've been asking ever since although I think most have given up.

Search the forum for other threads (there are a few), but the answer is something like "real soon now".

______
Rob
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: Far-seeker on Jul 09, 2012, 08:25 pm
I wouldn't give up on the Due just yet, as there are a small number of "beta boards" currently in existence.  However, I wouldn't hold my breath either...  The best answer to your question is probably: "Yes, but we just don't know how long it will take."   
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: retrolefty on Jul 09, 2012, 10:51 pm
Status =  still over'Due'.

Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: Louis Davis on Jul 10, 2012, 10:28 pm
This reminds me of 'Due'ke Nukem Forever, that took 15 years from announcement to release.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: hybridnz on Jul 19, 2012, 12:27 am
The information is there if you look for it :)

http://arduino.cc/blog/2012/06/28/android-adk2012-is-here/

Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: bperrybap on Jul 19, 2012, 11:28 pm
But what I haven't seen is any comment on whether it will be a single IDE that can support
both like MPIDE or whether it will be a separate IDE - which would be a total bummer.

Anybody got a link to the actual code so people can start to evaluate the IDE
and look over the source code to the core code and libraries?

--- bill
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: graynomad on Jul 20, 2012, 12:02 am
Quote
which would be a total bummer

I'm of two minds about this. A real IDE with all the associated goodies is a joy to use, the Arduino IDE could never be described as such but it is simple and that's important for many people.

Any decently sized and complicated program really benefits from the sorts of features available with a real IDE and IMO proper debugging support is a must. That said a 100-line program doesn't need that, so I think there's an argument for both.

Of course supporting two IDEs would be a lot of work.

Quote
Anybody got a link to the actual code...

Fat chance, if anything became available it would have been broadcast from the rooftops 2 minutes later.

______
Rob
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: bperrybap on Jul 20, 2012, 12:24 am
What I was referring to was not a "better" ide but rather the mpide way of doing things
within the existing IDE interface:
1 ide that supports different processors transparently because they are just a different board type.

It is a joy to use mpide when testing on different boards,
as you can build the same sketch for an AVR based Arduino board
like an UNO and then flip over to a MIPs based Arduino board like the chipkit UNO32  by
just changing the board type.



I figured they weren't making any code available.
I think that is really dumb. Probably even dumber than what was done with Arduino 1.0
It is silly to keep things so hidden if they are really as close to release as they seem to imply
because the lack of additional testing and eye balls looking at it will only cause
the code to ship with issues that could have been resolved prior to release.

I wish the Arduino team would just swallow its pride and jump on to using mpide
as it has already solved so many of the multiple/different processor type using
the same IDE issues and is up and working today.

But I figure that won't ever happen given how tightly they seem to want to keep control
of everything.

--- bill
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: graynomad on Jul 20, 2012, 12:59 am
I've contacted the "Arduino team" many times offering to help...so far not one single response. I'd be happy to sign an NDA etc and as you say more eyes can't do any harm. I understand that you don't want too many actual developers and maybe they have enough (or maybe not) but you can have lots of people doing code reviews and inputting ideas.

There's nothing on the developers list either, not one post. So I guess we just have to wait until it's released then complain about the results. :)

______
Rob
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: hybridnz on Jul 20, 2012, 01:19 am
The IDE has had to be re-written for 32bit code. This means that ALL functions needed to be re-written for 32bit.

Arduino are working with Atmel directly and have had to work pretty hard on the liciencing of atmel code to fit the 'open source' model with the IDE. I think these two things alone have been some of what the hold up has been.

Its not as simple as just chucking another board out there and adding to an existing architecture IDE.

The signs are that the google android dev board is ready and based off the same techonlogy so it wont be long. I for one would prefer a nice stable product / IDE so its worth the wait.

The down side to all of this is 32bit libraries are going to take some time no-doubt :( I cant wait for full colour 32bit oLED :D
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: graynomad on Jul 20, 2012, 01:32 am
Quote
The IDE has had to be re-written for 32bit code.

Technically it's the libraries that have to be rewritten, although we do tend to use the term IDE to mean the lot around here.

I'm currently having a stab at porting to an LPC so I can appreciate the problems :)

I suspect that some things just won't port across, but also there's the opportunity to add new features that weren't really practical with the smaller AVRs.

_______
Rob
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: Bi0H4z4rD on Sep 13, 2012, 09:04 am
I just hope they enable Analog Comparators on this one, because it would be simply hilarious to be able to use video experimenter on this one...


BR
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: Far-seeker on Sep 13, 2012, 04:17 pm

I just hope they enable Analog Comparators on this one, because it would be simply hilarious to be able to use video experimenter on this one...


Well even if that isn't supported by built-in functions or official libraries, using anything that's on the final microcontroller chip of the Due should be possible without too much difficulty (provide any required pins are broken-out ;) ).   Because the Arduino IDE natively understands C/C++, a lot of low-level control of the microcontroller can be implemented.  Although this requires slightly more advanced knowledge of programing and  the architecture of the main chip than many applications require.  That stated, it would be nice to have some sort of easy to use high-level functions with for the majority of periphal features found on the Due's microcontroller, similar to the currently available Arduino boards.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: graynomad on Sep 13, 2012, 04:36 pm
AFAIK the SAM3X doesn't have analog comparators.

Quote
provide any required pins are broken-out

Don't bet on it, they left a few useful ones off the Mega.

______
Rob
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: funkyguy4000 on Sep 20, 2012, 04:50 pm
Many people are hoping that they will release something at Maker Faire in this coming week or so.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: Louis Davis on Sep 30, 2012, 01:24 am
The DUE will be released Oct. 22. This was announced at Maker Faire New York.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: funkyguy4000 on Sep 30, 2012, 01:37 am
Do you have a link?
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: Louis Davis on Sep 30, 2012, 04:06 am
No, I was in the auditorium during the talk.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: funkyguy4000 on Sep 30, 2012, 07:33 pm
Ohhh okay.  Lucky
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: bperrybap on Sep 30, 2012, 08:18 pm

No, I was in the auditorium during the talk.


So how complete is it?
Was there an actual demo of using the IDE and uploading a sketch to it? (or it just talk)
Did they comment on what is working vs what is not there yet?

--- bill
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: Louis Davis on Oct 01, 2012, 06:49 pm
They did not do a demo during the talk in the auditorium that I attended.

They were doing live demos in the Arduino/Atmel tent. It was very crowded, so I did not get any hands on.

From what I could tell during the demos at the tent, it looks like it is ready to go.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: hybridnz on Oct 01, 2012, 10:28 pm
Bugger, I was just in New York and would have liked to have attended this.

Good news about the release date, my project is stalled because im quite frankly just out of grunt on the mega.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: funkyguy4000 on Oct 01, 2012, 10:31 pm
Well this thing will be able to run wayyy faster.  Thats why I'm getting it, to run actual displays.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: hybridnz on Oct 01, 2012, 10:44 pm
You and me both .... Im only able to draw and refresh my screens using graphical mode at 2-3fps which is just too slow.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: funkyguy4000 on Oct 01, 2012, 11:04 pm
never wanted to try even here
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: hybridnz on Oct 02, 2012, 12:39 am
Happy days

World Maker Faire 2012: The Arduino Hour with Massimo Banzi & Alf-Egil Bogen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TZQt9lTAOU

Release date/ price: Oct 22nd 49USD + tax :)

Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: graynomad on Oct 02, 2012, 01:45 am
Very interesting, not a lot of details but some good stuff. For example it seems we aren't getting a full-featured IDE which is a bummer partly because that means no official debugger support.

I had to skip the Atmel stuff in the middle, not enough bandwidth, but Massimo's bit about open source was interesting and I sympathise with their predicament whereby they do months of work and someone clones it in a few days. I will never buy a $10 Chinese clone for that reason. I currently have one official board and one Australian board. I will buy a clone from someone who has given back to the community and will of course continue to buy official Arduinos, in fact unless there's a compelling technical reason to buy a clone I will only buy official boards in future I think.

______
Rob
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: pico on Oct 02, 2012, 05:31 pm

I will only buy official boards in future I think.


So you are saying that if you buy at least two more "official" boards, you will have paid your Dues?

(Boom tish.)
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: graynomad on Oct 02, 2012, 05:32 pm
:)
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: pico on Oct 02, 2012, 06:24 pm
More seriously, I hear what you say about the issue of buying clone boards, but the issue is a tricky one, with a lot of apparent contradictions lurking beneath the surface.

On one hand, I think it's a good thing to vote with your $$$, and put money towards the companies and inividuals who you would like to see rewarded for their work in the open hardware and open source arena. It's not really different from donating to a worthy charity that you think is doing good work.

OTOH, surely the whole point of open hardware and open source is not about a financial reward, but rather non-monetary rewards. I'm thinking about the Stallman manifesto on "free" software from way back when.

The other thing is that if you are open, you must _expect_ to be copied by people whose sole motivation is to make a buck. That's just axiomatic. I don't see how you could ever imagine it's not going to happen.

So the question is: Why are you going down the "open" route in the first place? Can your business (or non-business) model stand being potentially undercut by cloners?

There are certainly some open-source companies that have built very profitable businesses around the open source/open hardware concept. But they are usually doing something clever in terms of value adding (e.g. consulting, support) to get a revenue stream that is not for the licensing of the software or hardware design per se. Tricky stuff. I think it's a helluva neat trick if you can pull it off.

I'm not sure where the value add comes in terms of say, an Uno. If I am supposed to feel bad for buying an Uno clone, what if instead I buy a 328p chip, add a half dozen component to end up with a home-brewed Uno class dev board, and then program it with the Arduino IDE?

You might reasonably say "but what about all the effort that went into developing the Arduino IDE? You can't ignore that, you freeloader."

Fair enough. But when you consider the IDE is really essentially wrapping paper for the Gnu compiler that actually does all the heavy lifting, how does it make sense to financially reward only the makers of the wrapping paper but leave the makers of the Gnu compiler financially unrewarded?

It strikes me as akin to taking a taxi to hospital where a brilliant surgeon saves your life, and then tipping the taxi driver handsomely in your gratitude!

You might (also) reasonably say "but what about the 'wiring' libs? Surely that's value-added over and above the Gnu compiler?"

Fair enough. But then there are also all the third party libs that (personally) I actually find are far more valuable than the wiring stuff, but once again, how does it make sense to financially reward only the makers of the 'wiring' libs but leave the authors of the (much more valuable, imho) third part libraries financially unrewarded?

And finally, there is the question of scale. The total development effort of the entire Arduino development team to date just disappears into insignificance when compared against the sheer number of man-hours of development effort of something like the Gnu compiler. Or the AVR chips, for that matter.

When I buy a clone board, Atmel still get their financial reward. When I buy an "official" board. the developers of the Gnu compiler and the authors of the third party libs still get nothing.

Lots of contradictions. If it really is a moral issue (and I'm not sure even that's true), then it certainly isn't a straightforward one.


Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: retrolefty on Oct 02, 2012, 07:41 pm
Quote
Lots of contradictions. If it really is a moral issue (and I'm not sure even that's true), then it certainly isn't a straightforward one.


Well put. I love the Arduino concept and the way they have executed both their platform and their own hardware offerings. But make no mistake, their platform rests on top of many other independent open source projects, the compiler/linker and Wiring libraries you mentions, AVRDUDE for uploading, Processing for the IDE which in turn uses Java, etc. So the Arduino company added on additional open source contrubution like bootloaders and libraries, designed a very basic hardware platform and released all their contrubutions as open source. I think they in no way expected any 'moral' obligation for users to contribute to their financial income stream other then buying their products if they wished, nor expected clones to not be avaible nor purchased by users. I think the only thing they have tried to protect is their brand name, Arduino, and have asked cloners to respect it when it comes to naming of their products and marketing language.


So I own Arduino build boards, 3rd party value added boards, and simple knock off clone boards and I don't feel I've violated any obligations owed to the Arduino company nor the open source community at large.

Lefty
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: Jantje on Oct 02, 2012, 07:42 pm
Pico
I agree with most of what you say but not all of it.
I would advice to listen to the video (the open source thread is in the Q&A part).
I would formulate the statement like "We do not feel hurt by people making variations of arduino ( because they bring added value); we do not feel hurt by people making and selling arduino clones; we do feel hurt by people why make and sell a clone that looks like an arduino and sell it like an arduino. This because Arduino sponsor money is not send to arduino."
I see this as: Someone goes around with a collection box for Arduino and does not give the collected money to arduino. This is called fraud. This has nothing to do with the open source nature of Arduino.
However the open source nature of arduino makes it easier for people to fraud.

The other thing is that if you are open, you must _expect_ to be copied by people whose sole motivation is to make a buck. That's just axiomatic. I don't see how you could ever imagine it's not going to happen.
So the question is: Why are you going down the "open" route in the first place? Can your business (or non-business) model stand being potentially undercut by cloners?

Eventhough I agree with the first part of the statement, I find that the second part is extremely dangerously wrong minded. The sentence may be interpreted like "As you do open source don't complain people copying your work". This interpretation is completely wrong.
As a human I would say it sounds like "If you go out with money; don't complain when you get robbed."
A more legal comparison is with patents: If you request a patent in the USA you have to disclose all details. As soon as that is done, china can copy your work 100% legal and 100% informed just as if it is open source. But no country in the world with a mutual patent agreement with the USA is legally allowed to import those goods. So it is law which is protecting the patent owners and it is law which protects the arduino trademark.


OTOH, surely the whole point of open hardware and open source is not about a financial reward, but rather non-monetary rewards. I'm thinking about the Stallman manifesto on "free" software from way back when.

It is very noble to give stuff away for free. However everybody needs to eat. The question is: Do you go for "enough to survive" the "whole plate", the "whole dish",......the"whole world". From all donations for my plugin I'm not able to feed myself during the time I developed it. I'm not sad about it, it was my choice to develop it, my choice to shape it, and it will be my choice on how to take it further. My point is, if you want to survive in a donation world you need to push people to donate. Arduino has this push with their branding.


Fair enough. But when you consider the IDE is really essentially wrapping paper for the Gnu compiler that actually does all the heavy lifting, how does it make sense to financially reward only the makers of the wrapping paper but leave the makers of the Gnu compiler financially unrewarded?

i advice you to rethink the value of good wrapper software. I have been in software development for decades and I can really appreciate a good wrapper like the IDE. The fact most people do not know that the ide is mostly a wrapper means it is a really good wrapper.


It strikes me as akin to taking a taxi to hospital where a brilliant surgeon saves your life, and then tipping the taxi driver handsomely in your gratitude!

This happens all the time. Think about what managers and sales people urn compared to technical people. ]:D
It is impossible to say who or what did it; so finding out who really urns the tip is nearly impossible.

I really like this analogy because giving tips is essential to any eco system. And tip's do not have to be financial. I know for instance that some people have made an arduino library as contribution because they felt they already got so much from the eco system. Other people give away their code because they see no commercial benefit so they feel they can just as well make it open source.

My conclusion: Indeed it is a complex eco system. The only way that the eco system will stay healthy is by a huge amount of members doing a contribution. Contribution is in most cases not money.
But in the end we all need to eat and feed our children. So -in our society- money will come lurking around. And I feel the Arduino core team is really mature about it. I would translate it as "When you start learning Arduino; buy a UNO and then we'll see." and "Don't fraud."

Sorry for the rant

Best regards
Jantje
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: bperrybap on Oct 02, 2012, 08:02 pm
kind of drifting way off topic...


...
A more legal comparison is with patents: If you request a patent in the USA you have to disclose all details. As soon as that is done, china can copy your work 100% legal and 100% informed just as if it is open source. But no country in the world with a mutual patent agreement with the USA is legally allowed to import those goods. So it is law which is protecting the patent owners and it is law which protects the arduino trademark.


patents vs open source are not even close to the same thing.
A patent is a disclosure of IP in an attempt to protect it.
Open Source is a disclosure of IP in an attempt to give it away.

These two are very different.

And I agree with Pico, in that given our capitalistic greed driven societies,
that if you give something away for free, you have
to be naive to think that there won't be somebody out there that will attempt to take
that free resource and attempt to monetize it.

With respect to trademarks,
if you closely looked at the "Arduino" trademark, it was only recently
assigned, and IMHO, I think they were lucky to have obtained the US "Arduino" mark - given their delay.
The Arduino guys were complaining about use of their "trademark"
a few years before they bothered to follow through with the proper legal paper work
to make it an official legal trademark.
i.e. if you want to play in the real world of business, you need to understand certain
rules of the game, especially if you want to have legal protection for things like IP
or trademarks.

--- bill
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: Jantje on Oct 02, 2012, 08:14 pm
bperrybap
I agree it is off-topic but still interesting  8)


...
A more legal comparison is with patents: If you request a patent in the USA you have to disclose all details. As soon as that is done, china can copy your work 100% legal and 100% informed just as if it is open source. But no country in the world with a mutual patent agreement with the USA is legally allowed to import those goods. So it is law which is protecting the patent owners and it is law which protects the arduino trademark.


patents vs open source are not even close to the same thing.
A patent is a disclosure of IP in an attempt to protect it.
Open Source is a disclosure of IP in an attempt to give it away.

These two are very different.

I never stated that patents and open source are not very different. But if you are in china and the patent is in USA it is 100% legal to copy and you have 100% information on how to do it. Even if you are a researcher or doing non commercial things for yourself there is little distinction between the 2.
This because patents are there to share the work without losing the copy right. With the same idea as with open source that when you share it will grow.
Don't be fooled about open source. It is not because you can freely "read" the code there are no patents in there and there is no copy right. If you can be bothered read the gpl, cpl and epl licences.  or read this wiki page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eclipse_Public_License (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eclipse_Public_License)
Best regards
Jantje
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: bperrybap on Oct 02, 2012, 09:17 pm

I never stated that patents and open source are not very different. But if you are in china and the patent is in USA it is 100% legal to copy and you have 100% information on how to do it. Even if you are a researcher or doing non commercial things for yourself there is little distinction between the 2.
This because patents are there to share the work without losing the copy right.
With the same idea as with open source that when you share it will grow.

Patents are to protect the commercial rights to an idea. It has nothing to do with copyrights.
i.e. it controls who has the right to make a product for sale or use the idea in a commercial product.
Individuals are always allowed to use patented ideas and implement them in their
own personal products.

Quote

Don't be fooled about open source. It is not because you can freely "read" the code there are no patents in there and there is no copy right. If you can be bothered read the gpl, cpl and epl licences.  or read this wiki page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eclipse_Public_License (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eclipse_Public_License)
Best regards
Jantje

Duh...
I'm quite familiar with the patent/trademark systems (US vs EU vs Asia vs rest of world)
as well as copyrights and various licensing: gpl (v2 vs v3) bsd, apachie, creative commons, and a
variety of others. How they work and the limitations involving closed vs open source in derivative works.
I have more than a dozen issued patents many of which are International not just US with 3 currently still
pending. I was founder of company that we took public in the late 90's (EFNT on nasdaq)
and then grew to 800 employees and finally sold it for $1B a few years later,
so I'm very familiar with many of the intricacies of the patent system
(including the recent US changes from "first to invent" to "first to file")
as well as the advantages and issues surrounding using
open source in commercial products.



There are many different "open source" licenses and as a business if you choose to deal
with open source (use it or give it away) you have understand what it really means by
understanding the risks of using it in your products and potential risks to the profits
(businesses are about making money right?) and how it can potentially enable competitors.

Some licenses like LGPL are essentially "freeware" where GPL v3 is at the opposite end of the spectrum
which requires opening up anything that touches it as well as some patent enforcement restrictions.
And there are many that land in between.

(I'll drop out now as this is moving into a open source philosophy discussion which
is way off topic)

--- bill
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: Jantje on Oct 02, 2012, 10:39 pm
bill

Quote

Don't be fooled about open source. It is not because you can freely "read" the code there are no patents in there and there is no copy right. If you can be bothered read the gpl, cpl and epl licences.  or read this wiki page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eclipse_Public_License (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eclipse_Public_License)
Best regards
Jantje

Duh...
EDIT:  Personal add removed



EDIT: repetition of what is in the provided link removed

(I'll drop out now as this is moving into a open source philosophy discussion which
is way off topic)

--- bill

Can you explain why you say "Duh..." and add a lot of text. I mean I don't see the relation between "Duh..." and the remainder of the text.
Maybe "Duh..." is not denigrating in your country but it is in mine. So at least I would like to know what makes you do this.
Jantje
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: hybridnz on Oct 02, 2012, 11:30 pm
Can we please keep the same old arguement out of this topic ?
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: Jantje on Oct 04, 2012, 12:03 am
And a link http://arduino.cc/ArudinoDUE (http://arduino.cc/ArudinoDUE) to a page that will contain more info soon (whatever that may be)
I'll buy one just to make sure my plugin works with it.

Best regards
Jantje
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: Nantonos on Oct 04, 2012, 11:59 am
I came across  a flickr set of the Due dev board (http://www.flickr.com/photos/robotgrrl/sets/72157629855444076/with/7252706778/). General pinout is very Mega2560-ish but looking here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/robotgrrl/7252716722/in/set-72157629855444076) I notice SCL1 and SDA1 next to AREF, plus a 10-pin header where the 6-pin ICSP for 16U2 is on the Mega2560r3. And here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/robotgrrl/7252736898/in/set-72157629855444076) A12..A15 have changed to DA0, DA1, CAN RX0, CAN TX0.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: graynomad on Oct 04, 2012, 12:14 pm
Quote
SCL1 and SDA1 next to AREF

All new boards have the I2C signals over there I think.

Quote
10-pin header where the 6-pin ICSP for 16U2 is on the Mega2560r3

That will be the JTAG header for the SAM.

Quote
A12..A15 have changed to DA0, DA1, CAN RX0, CAN TX0.

CAN and the DAC (I guess), well they had to come out somewhere.

Also those pics have been around for a while, they must be of an earlier version as there is only a single USB jack, the current board has two.

______
Rob
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: funkyguy4000 on Oct 04, 2012, 07:49 pm
Does anybody know what the difference between the two jacks are?
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: Far-seeker on Oct 04, 2012, 08:02 pm

Does anybody know what the difference between the two jacks are?


The following is from the PDF Telecommando linked to...

Quote

The Due hast two micro USB connectors one
intended for debugging purpose and a secondo one
capablo ef acting as a USB host, allowing externa USB
peripherals such as mouse, keyboards, smartphones,
etc. to be connected to the Arduino Due.


So they are probably completely separate as far as communication, and you can probably think of one as working similar to the USB port on the Uno and the other as more like a fully integrated USB host shield.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: mbanzi on Oct 17, 2012, 03:14 pm
@funkyguy4000

One USB port is connected directly to the processor and has an OTG connector, this means that it can be used as an USB host to connect devices like mouse, keyboard, android phones etc
The Second USB port is connected to the UART0 via the usual atmega16u2 we use on the other boards. this port is used for programming and communicating with the board. This allows you to develop projects using the USB host without having to plug and unplug cables all the time.

The board has a 4 pin SWD connector that can be used to debug code using a SWD/JTAG dongle. There is also a footprint for a 14pin jtag connector.

The pictures robotgrrl posted on the flickr account are of an old beta board we gave out in may to a number of beta testers and it didn't have the second USB port.

We upgraded the power supply to a DCDC converter that can provide enough current to the USB host so that now the Due can be used as an ADK2 development board

if you have other questions, shoot!

m
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: funkyguy4000 on Oct 17, 2012, 05:28 pm
Just a couple layout questions.
1) The Due obviously looks very "mega-ish", does this mean that the pins will be laid out in a similar fashion?  Having the PWM pins over here, the communication over here, digital there, and analog over there?

2) If I'm not mistaken, the Due has been in development since the release of the new R3 layout, will the SDA and SCL lines be mapped to analog pins or will they be broken out like on the new R3 boards?
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: mbanzi on Oct 17, 2012, 06:24 pm
1. this is the first board we make with the SAM3X but not the last one ;) we decided to adopt the mega layout to help people migrate their apps as easily as possible. In the future we'll explore different layouts.

2. The Due follows the R3 layout that we developed to make the standard layout more flexible/homogeneous  (i.e. having easy access to the I2C) and to support boards operating at voltages other than 5v (IOREF PIN)
Unfortunately the mega328 on the UNO has I2c multiplexed on two analog pins while already on the mega (or leonardo) they are on different pins. Any current Arduino boards is based on R3 and solves the problem by placing I2C in the same position on every

m
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: bperrybap on Oct 17, 2012, 06:46 pm
Is the DUE is using a compatible shield footprint as the Uno/Mega?
If so, Is the DUE 5V tolerant on the inputs?
Or are users potentially going to be burning up inputs when they attempt
to use their existing 5V shields on the DUE?

In other words, if the DUE is backwards compatible with existing shields,
how do you prevent users from damaging their DUE when plugging in 5V shields?

--- bill
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: retrolefty on Oct 17, 2012, 07:13 pm

Is the DUE is using a compatible shield footprint as the Uno/Mega?
If so, Is the DUE 5V tolerant on the inputs?
Or are users potentially going to be burning up inputs when they attempt
to use their existing 5V shields on the DUE?

In other words, if the DUE is backwards compatible with existing shields,
how do you prevent users from damaging their DUE when plugging in 5V shields?

--- bill



That was discussed by several of us in this or possible another Due based thread. I believe some of us feel that many a new beginner will most likely (or at least potentially) suffer damage from using non-Due compatible shields. Venders of shields will probably have to be burdened to state with their shield offerings if their shield products work with Due only or older arduino + Due or older 5vdc arduinos only. I don't see a good case for why they didn't give the Due a whole new shield footprint to work with?

Lefty
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: Far-seeker on Oct 17, 2012, 07:32 pm


Is the DUE is using a compatible shield footprint as the Uno/Mega?
If so, Is the DUE 5V tolerant on the inputs?
Or are users potentially going to be burning up inputs when they attempt
to use their existing 5V shields on the DUE?

In other words, if the DUE is backwards compatible with existing shields,
how do you prevent users from damaging their DUE when plugging in 5V shields?

--- bill



That was discussed by several of us in this or possible another Due based thread. I believe some of us feel that many a new beginner will most likely (or at least potentially) suffer damage from using non-Due compatible shields. Venders of shields will probably have to be burdened to state with their shield offerings if their shield products work with Due only or older arduino + Due or older 5vdc arduinos only. I don't see a good case for why they didn't give the Due a whole new shield footprint to work with?

Lefty



From the SAM3X datasheets (http://www.atmel.com/Images/doc11057.pdf)...
Quote

Voltage on Input Pins
with Respect to Ground....................................-0.3V to + 4.0V


So the IC's I/O pins certainly can't take 5 VDC logic.  I suppose it's possible for there to be optional FET based level shifter circuitry for each I/O pin, but it's very unlikely they included it on the stock Due...
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: bperrybap on Oct 17, 2012, 10:11 pm


***
In other words, if the DUE is backwards compatible with existing shields,
how do you prevent users from damaging their DUE when plugging in 5V shields?
--- bill

That was discussed by several of us in this or possible another Due based thread.
***

I've seen a few discussions on this.
I was wanting to hear a definitive answer straight from the horses mouth, somebody
on the Arduino team, perhaps  Massimo Banzi
as most of the discussion about this that has happened so far is from/by folks that don't have access
to the real product and as such is speculation on what will/won't be in the final version
of the product.

--- bill
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: pico on Oct 18, 2012, 09:17 am

I don't see a good case for why they didn't give the Due a whole new shield footprint to work with?


I really don't think there is one. I suspect this decision to continue with the "legacy" shield footprint for the "Due" will be recognised in hindsight to be a significant blunder, as well as an opportunity lost.



Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: graynomad on Oct 18, 2012, 10:02 am
I've been arguing for ages that the current backplane arrangement leaves a lot to be desired and when I first heard about the Due I hoped there would be a change. No such luck.

I guess it's hard to orphan 500+ existing shields, but if some/many/most of them won't work anyway it doesn't matter.

I think that "How many will work?" is the $64 question.

____
Rob
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: mbanzi on Oct 18, 2012, 10:13 am
@pico

As I just mentioned this is the first board with the SAM3X we're going to release so there is plenty of opportunities to create different layouts (as a matter of fact we have a new layout we've been playing with for a while)

I think there is a lot of people who prefer to re-use as much as possible of what they currently have before they have to throw everything away.. Our current Eth and Wifi shields, to mention two, work with the Due as they are able to detect and adapt to the whatever voltage the main board is operating at.

Making the board 5v tolerant would have made the it way too expensive. The market is now full of heavily subsidised (even sold at loss...) products that make it quite difficult to fight these battles.

The beauty of open source is that in a few days time you will be able to download the Arduino Due eagle file, design a much better layout and sell your own boards  benefiting from our lack of vision :)

@Graynomad
we introduced the R3 layout a long time ago and we explained why the IOREF pin is there... some people understood and implemented the correct measures to make their shields compatible, some others didn't ... you'll see a lot more shields made available with the full implementation of R3



m


Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: Jantje on Oct 18, 2012, 10:37 am
@Massimo
The due is a completely new hardware platform which needs a new toolchain. From the video's I have seen on this subject I learned that the new Arduino IDE has been optimized to support more toolchains. As you may know I have developed a Arduino eclipse plugin that uses the Arduino IDE toolchain. When the due comes out I will change this to "a arduino eclipse pllugin that supports multiple toolchains".
As such I am very interested in how you support "configuring a toolchain in the new arduino IDE". I assume this is done based on an additional hardware folder that contains it's own boards.txt file.
I also assume that this boards.txt fie has been extended to allow to identify which toolchain must be used and which options must be set for which tool.
I would love to get a description of the new boards.txt. I have been searching but didn't find anything on this subject yet.
Can you point me to a description that would allow me to take the right decisions to implement "toolchain selection based on Arduino IDE info" in eclipse?
Thanks

Best regards
Jantje
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: mbanzi on Oct 18, 2012, 11:06 am
Jantje

Next week we release IDE v 1.5  and there will be a blog post discussing some of the internals of the new version.

m
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: dxw00d on Oct 18, 2012, 11:11 am
Will IDE 1.5 rollback the removal of errors for missing include files that happened in 1.0.1?
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: mbanzi on Oct 18, 2012, 11:22 am
I don't have specifics on that.. as I said there will be a blog post 

1.5 will be Due only at the beginning. shortly after there will be a 1.0.2 with some of the enhancemens backported (there are some nice user experience improvements in it)
Later on when 1.5 is stable we'll merge and have only one IDE.

if you can point me to an issue here http://code.google.com/p/arduino/issues/list I'll have it checked.

m
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: dxw00d on Oct 18, 2012, 11:32 am
It's http://code.google.com/p/arduino/issues/detail?id=1057. It was introduced in 1.0.1, and it really needs rolling back. It causes a lot of problems, particularly with inexperienced coders.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: pico on Oct 18, 2012, 11:38 am

I guess it's hard to orphan 500+ existing shields, but if some/many/most of them won't work anyway it doesn't matter.


Exactly. No-one is going to "throw out" their old shields just because they've bought a Due, anymore than they'll throw out their Unos and Megas. Why would they? The AVR product line still has a future, and the the ARM products complement rather than replace these products. Even if Arduino never made another AVR-based board, the old 8-bit AVR Arduino "ecosystem" would now continue indefinitely under its own momentum.

The problem with the IOREF pin approach is that adds complexity (and therefore cost) to any shield design that wants to use this technique. Cheaper and simpler to design an AVR 5v version and a separate ARM 3v3 version, if needed (I suspect many if not most shields will be suited for either AVR or ARM rather than for both). The fact that a lot of people are going to be buying shields designed for AVRs and finding they don't work for the "Due" is going to cause endless aggravation that could have been avoided, I suspect. I hope I'm wrong.

The reason I believe this is an opportunity lost is that, while anyone can design a dervative board with an alternate header layout, only Arduino is in a position to set a new "standard" layout by simply releasing a new product. So no, remedying the "lack of vision" is not quite that simple.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: pico on Oct 18, 2012, 11:55 am

As I just mentioned this is the first board with the SAM3X we're going to release so there is plenty of opportunities to create different layouts (as a matter of fact we have a new layout we've been playing with for a while)


This is encouraging. Could I suggest soliciting some feedback from the user base before settling on a final design? Who knows, you might end up with something even better.  ;)
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: bperrybap on Oct 18, 2012, 05:58 pm

I think there is a lot of people who prefer to re-use as much as possible of what they currently have before they have to throw everything away.. Our current Eth and Wifi shields, to mention two, work with the Due as they are able to detect and adapt to the whatever voltage the main board is operating at.


But in reality how much shield re-use will there really be? (I'm guessing not much)
There are many things that will prevent existing shields from being used.
- 5v outputs driving the Arduino input pins
- depending on certain alternate being functions on certain pins
- Current demand on Arduino output pins
being some of the biggest issues.

Normally when electrically damaging incompatibilities exist,
connectors/pinouts/headers are changed to ensure that such devices
are never allowed to be connected to each other.

Just my opinion but preserving the existing header layout is creating a much
bigger problem than it is trying to solve.
It now makes the selection of which shield to buy/use no longer simple as there
will be shields that will plug into the DUE that can damage it.
Not good for newbies and less technical users who will tend to have the view
that "if it fits" it must be ok.

Quote

Making the board 5v tolerant would have made the it way too expensive.

Ah. Finally, A definite answer on the 5v tolerant question.

Too expensive for whom? The naive user that blows up his DUE or schools that have
students blowing up DUE boards when trying to use an  incompatible shield may not
think the money saved for this lack of protection on DUE was worth it.

There are other 32 bit MCUs out there that are 5v tolerant that would not
have incurred the additional cost that might have been better suited
for this type of environment.

--- bill
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: funkyguy4000 on Oct 19, 2012, 12:54 am
Quote

Quote

Making the board 5v tolerant would have made the it way too expensive.

Too expensive for whom?


Too expensive for what the developers want to sell it for.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: Louis Davis on Oct 20, 2012, 05:52 pm
Yet another article about the arrival DUE on Monday:
http://www.wired.com/design/2012/10/arduino-due/
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: funkyguy4000 on Oct 20, 2012, 06:10 pm
Code: [Select]
An audio library for the Due is also being released, coupling onto the Due's ability for wav file playback.

I got super excited when I saw this.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: Nantonos on Oct 20, 2012, 09:47 pm
Due retail packaging sighted by ?@HamburgMakers:

(http://)
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: graynomad on Oct 21, 2012, 12:05 am
Only one more sleep :)

______
Rob
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: retrolefty on Oct 21, 2012, 02:04 am

Yet another article about the arrival DUE on Monday:
http://www.wired.com/design/2012/10/arduino-due/


And so the shield compatibility problem begins. Note the first sentence in the below, does that sound like a beginner might think any present should he might own will work ok with the new Due? Later it tries to explain that all shields may not indeed work with a Due or some can even cause damage, but it's certainly not a crystal clear to this reader what is trying to be explained. However this a article from Wired so not sure if the source is from Arduino or just the writers attempt at an explanation? Anyone ever see an official arduino R3 spec? I don't recall seeing one published, although I'm assuming they means new shields should have that mating connector pin and read the voltage present on the new IOref pin to determine is it's a 3.3vdc signal meaning the controller the shield is attached to is operating at that voltage. Older controllers will not have that pin so no voltage will be sensed by a connected shield board.

Quote
The Due will continue to work with all Arduino shields -- add-on boards and circuitry like motion sensors and LED light arrays -- that conform to the official Arduino Revision 3 layout. However, the Due operates at 3.3V whereas AVR-based Arduinos operate at 5V, meaning some third-party shields that don't follow the R3 specs to the letter may not be compatible, depending on their voltages. It also means those looking to use the Due in existing applications should adjust their voltage or risk damaging their board.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: graynomad on Oct 21, 2012, 02:30 am
Quote
And so the shield compatibility problem begins.

Yep, we live in interesting times.

Brace yourself for a lot of "Is my Due bricked?, all I did was plug in the XYZ shield and now nothing works" questions.

Quote
Anyone ever see an official arduino R3 spec?

Someone just asked that on another thread, I said I don't think such a thing exists, at least not available to the public. Who needs documentation when you have the source code and the Eagle design files right :)

All the Arduino stuff really should be properly documented. I volunteer someone else to do it.
______
Rob
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: retrolefty on Oct 21, 2012, 02:40 am

Quote
And so the shield compatibility problem begins.

Yep, we live in interesting times.

Brace yourself for a lot of "Is my Due bricked?, all I did was plug in the XYZ shield and now nothing works" questions.

Quote
Anyone ever see an official arduino R3 spec?

Someone just asked that on another thread, I said I don't think such a thing exists, at least not available to the public. Who needs documentation when you have the source code and the Eagle design files right :)

All the Arduino stuff really should be properly documented. I volunteer someone else to do it.
______
Rob



Well from the official Uno Rev3 board discription there is this section:

Quote

Revision 3 of the board has the following new features:
1.0 pinout: added SDA and SCL pins that are near to the AREF pin and two other new pins placed near to the RESET pin, the IOREF that allow the shields to adapt to the voltage provided from the board. In future, shields will be compatible both with the board that use the AVR, which operate with 5V and with the Arduino Due that operate with 3.3V. The second one is a not connected pin, that is reserved for future purposes.


But again I don't think that is a easy for beginners to understand statement/specification, and therefore the burden now falls on the shield manufacture to now state which arduino boards their shields will work with and which might damage a Due board. People selling Due boards may also have to be pretty specific about what shield types can or cannot be connected to the Due. I would not be happy with the arduino folks if I was in the shield selling business. There are going to unhappy sellers of both shields and Due boards facing newby customers asking for refund or replacements on their newly purchased Due boards.

Lefty
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: graynomad on Oct 21, 2012, 03:07 am
Quote
Well from the official Uno Rev3 board discription there is this section:

That's the sort of thing I refer to, it's not a spec, it's a general description.

pins that are near to the AREF pin
Where?

the IOREF that allow the shields to adapt to the voltage provided from the board
How?

AFAIK the only drawings that show the shield dimensions are those produced by users (myself included).

As I said in the other thread, nobody is getting paid to do proper documentation and few people have the time so I guess it will never happen.

______
Rob
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: pico on Oct 21, 2012, 04:32 am
If I was selling shields, I'd be placing big disclaimers on my webpages for each shield


This is a 5V shield! Will NOT work with an Arduino DUE! Tested to work with Arduino Uno, Mega1280, Mega2560, and Leonardo. Connecting this shield to your Due may result in damage to your shield and/or your Due, and will void your warranty!


That should reduce the number of credit card chargebacks by at least 10%. Who needs IOREF?  ;)

More seriously, plugging a board designed for 5V onto a 3.3V board will most likely result in the shield simply not working due to undervoltage, rather than actually harming either the shield or Due. The exception might be the IO shields that require higher current and have their own power in connector, and are designed to supply power via backfeed to dev boards on the Vcc pin. Unless it turns out the Due has some built in protection like a zener circuit or something, the result could be smoky.

Any other specific failure modes anyone can think of?

Edit: OK, just thought of another one myself. If a AVR designed shield tries to draw more current on an IO pin (up to 40mA) than the Due is rated for, more smoke.

Prima facie it would appear the Due itself is much more likely to be damaged than the 5V shield.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: bperrybap on Oct 21, 2012, 06:08 am
Many shields, sensor boards,  and external i/o boards that I've seen use
active components that tie into the +5v power pin for their power.
If the +5v power pin on DUE is still +5v (the pictures I've seen so far have it labeled as +5v),
then that means all kinds of shields and devices have the potential to create problems for DUE.

For example, those shields that use +5v and drive any outputs back to
the MCU pins, those outputs will usually be +5v which will be too high for the DUE.

Then there are many devices like TTL Async serial devices, SPI,  and I2c devices that also
use 5v for their circuitry and will drive +5v back to MCU input pins.
Then there are sensors, like the popular HC-SR04 ultrasonic ping sensor,
and a slew of "electronic brick" sensors  and i/o boards that use +5v input voltage and drive
output pins at that voltage.

Then there are passive shields that do no harm by themselves like the "Sensor Shield" but then
depending on what is hooked up to it, it has the potential to do harm because the voltage
provided to each of the sensor headers and connectors is +5v.
In that case, whose at fault?
The sensor in some cases could have run at 3.3v but the shield provided +5v,
however the +5v came from the DUE and the DUE can not handle the 5v inputs.

Even some passive shields have a pullup on the RESET line back to +5v.
(Not sure if that would be an issue for DUE)

So it isn't just 5V shields that will have issues and the potential to blow up DUE pins.

--- bill

Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: pYro_65 on Oct 22, 2012, 08:08 am
Hmmm, release must be imminent. Geez, wake up Italy...  :P
I'm quite interested to see the new IDE and code base.

As for the shield problem, plenty of hardware/software nerds here, why not start a community developed voltage tolerant shield just for plugging any voltage shields in, maybe add a few lasers too.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: Nantonos on Oct 22, 2012, 08:46 am
08:45 in Europe.
http://www.arduino.cc/ shows a picture of an Uno and some four-day-old twitter feed.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: DuaneB on Oct 22, 2012, 09:00 am
Hi,

  Waiting, waiting, waiting ...

EDIT: I wonder if we will have to wait until the US is up and about ?

Duane B
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: Nantonos on Oct 22, 2012, 10:07 am
@Arduino  "Should go online on the different websites this morning"

(http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=113460.0;attach=27729;image)
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: Jantje on Oct 22, 2012, 10:18 am
I just checked RS
nothing :-(
Best regards
Jantje
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: Markus_L811 on Oct 22, 2012, 10:22 am

I just checked RS
nothing :-(
Best regards
Jantje


Hi

I found him there:

http://www.homotix.it/index.cfm?Page=Catalogo&IdCatProdotto=139&IdSchedaProdotto=2245 (http://www.homotix.it/index.cfm?Page=Catalogo&IdCatProdotto=139&IdSchedaProdotto=2245)

Now, I have a vision, many people all over the world scratching on there desk's even if there high on valium, and waiting for the Arduino Due, at the same time Massimo Banzi is stroking a nealy dead cat (from the endles stroke) and the tells his numbero Uno let them wait till afternoon, then a scary laugh is filling the room, and in some edge someone is playing an sad melody on his violine.

I hope nobody is killing me for this some sort of irony mixed up bad humor. I think Mr. Banzi and his team did a great work with the arduino and the boards it's really incredible how they put the word usability near to microcontroller, and now with the possibility to use an ARM for cool stuff on the horizon there will be the next level of fun. Thank you Mr. Banzi and of course his team.

Markus
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: vogel1230 on Oct 22, 2012, 12:25 pm
Not sure how long it will take to get them in or how long you might be willing to wait, but Mouser Electronics has 25 waiting to come in and listing them at $38 US. Arduino Store has them @ $58 US, but I get errors when I place one in the cart. $20 off is worth the wait to go Mouser.

I looked at Sparkfun and Adafruit this morning and didn't see a thing. I figured the websites would have had them just after midnight and watched the sales rack up by this morning.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: Nantonos on Oct 22, 2012, 12:29 pm
Its in the Arduino store
http://store.arduino.cc/ww/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=243

but you can't buy it, because it complains that one unit has beeen added and to change that to one!!

(http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=113460.0;attach=27732;image)
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: Nantonos on Oct 22, 2012, 12:33 pm
But there is a technical information page now
http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardDue

The main http://arduino.cc/ meanwhile still shows a UNO and has no mention of a new product.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: Nantonos on Oct 22, 2012, 12:37 pm
Floris.cc (in Belgium) lists it in their shop, but is out of stock and won't let you order
http://www.pieterfloris.nl/shop/category.php?id_category=7
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: Nantonos on Oct 22, 2012, 12:43 pm
The Arduino.cc shop seems to have fixed the error, it let me order one now. Postage from Italy to France is quoted as 5 days  :smiley-roll:
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: Jantje on Oct 22, 2012, 12:52 pm
you can download the new ide at http://arduino.cc/en/Main/SoftwareDue (http://arduino.cc/en/Main/SoftwareDue)
I'm curious what the boards.txt looks like.
Looking at the download speed; I'm not the only one downloading
Best regards
Jantje
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: graynomad on Oct 22, 2012, 01:00 pm
Quote
you can download the new ide at


I love this on that page

Quote
WARNING: This software is a beta version, so exspect bugs and..


______
Rob
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: Markus_L811 on Oct 22, 2012, 02:28 pm

Quote
you can download the new ide at


I love this on that page

Quote
WARNING: This software is a beta version, so exspect bugs and..


______
Rob


I exspect allways bugs but I'am old school I make bugs by my self most of the time...  ...if I'am in buisness I will other let build bugs for me professionaly.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: bperrybap on Oct 22, 2012, 02:57 pm
After a quick glance at the new IDE.
The IDE tools configuration looks amazingly similar to mpide with the platforms.txt files.
It looks like it will now be easy to set/modify compiler and linker flags.
It also appears that flags/defines can be set down to a per board basis using the extensions in
boards.txt similar to what is available in mpide.
This should make things like using floating point xxprintf() code or setting board specific defines much easier.
It also means that moving the maple and chipkit tools sets to this new IDE should be very easy.

One thing that looks like an improvement over mpide is that it appears that there is finally
an attempt at a separation and location for the arduino generic libraries. So now you don't have to keep cloning
library code between the different architectures if it is MCU independent.

--- bill

BTW, I used the new IDE to upload a few sketches to an AVR based board, so the AVR support seems
to be at least somewhat working.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: pYro_65 on Oct 22, 2012, 04:07 pm
Wanting to put in an order, but 112 Euro to Australia, are you serious, almost twice the cost of the board for shipping, no wonder people buy clones...

I waited a year I suppose I can wait till clones come out, I was expecting a large fee for postage, not daylight robbery.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: graynomad on Oct 22, 2012, 04:13 pm
I don't think there's much the Arduino guys can do if they want to use a courier. I've seen this a lot with small companies who don't have the volume to cut a good deal. It can be a killer for a startup company. I've seen prices of $50 or even $75 for a single (small) bolt.

I think element14 are Arduino resellers so they should have some soon I would guess and they used to have free shipping in Aus although I'm not sure if that's still the case.

______
Rob

Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: MOUSER_EMBEDDED on Oct 22, 2012, 04:24 pm
Arduino Due now available for order at Mouser (A000062)!  Small quantity on the way with a large order coming in November.

-Tim

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Arduino/A000062/?qs=%2fha2pyFadujh7tmx%252bTW1S5W5DfpIHKIfE2xTrhRb%252bBQ%3d
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: mbanzi on Oct 22, 2012, 04:31 pm
pYro_65
unfortunatly the courier from europe to australia is going to expensive... We're not ripping you off.. they are.
We have distributors around the world to alleviate this problem.
I think that accusing us of "daylight robbery" is unfair.

As I said before we can't use the postal shipping because there are way too many packages that get "lost". since there is no way to track then efficently in many countries, we had to ship boards multiple times.

m





Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: vogel1230 on Oct 22, 2012, 04:33 pm
MOUSER_EMBEDDED.......nice work. I actually ordered mine from you last night. Great prices too!!
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: vogel1230 on Oct 22, 2012, 04:44 pm
pYro_65..........Sedonia Technologies has them in Australia, but currently out of stock. Maybe check with them to see if you can get on a wait list.

AU $48 +gst

http://www.sedoniatech.com.au/arduino-due.htm (http://www.sedoniatech.com.au/arduino-due.htm)
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: graynomad on Oct 22, 2012, 04:55 pm
Little Bird has them listed as well. 0 stock of course but maybe when they open tomorrow.

______
Rob
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: vogel1230 on Oct 22, 2012, 04:59 pm
Mouser Australia will ship once they get them in for $88 AUD including shipping.  They will let you order now and just have them backordered so that yours will ship once they are received. Most places won't even let you order till they get them in stock.

Mouser has great prices on all the Arduino stuff. Got my Mega for under $40.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: bperrybap on Oct 22, 2012, 05:03 pm

pYro_65
unfortunatly the courier from europe to australia is going to expensive... We're not ripping you off.. they are.
We have distributors around the world to alleviate this problem.
I think that accusing us of "daylight robbery" is unfair.

As I said before we can't use the postal shipping because there are way too many packages that get "lost". since there is no way to track then efficently in many countries, we had to ship boards multiple times.

m

But if courier charges are more than the cost of the board, you could lose half of them and still be ahead of
courier rates.
What percentage of your packages going to Australia are actually "lost"?

You could let the buyers to assume the risk loss for using postal shipping.

--- bill
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: JonMarkGo on Oct 22, 2012, 05:05 pm
Anyone see any US retailers that have them for sale?
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: vogel1230 on Oct 22, 2012, 05:08 pm
I don't know about in stock, but Mouser has them at $38 and they will back order it for you.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: vogel1230 on Oct 22, 2012, 05:11 pm
Adafruit has them up now, but no stock either.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: graynomad on Oct 22, 2012, 05:36 pm
Quote
Mouser Australia will ship once they get them in for $88 AUD including shipping.

Ouch! That's nearly $40 for the shipping.

______
Rob
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: Nantonos on Oct 22, 2012, 05:46 pm

We're not ripping you off.. they are.
We have distributors around the world to alleviate this problem.

Agreed.


I think that accusing us of "daylight robbery" is unfair.

I think it is UPS rather than Arduino.cc who are being accused of daylight robbery. And I think it is a fair accusation - people quoting the UPS shipping charges should realise that this is not the end of the story. UPS will show up at your door asking for more money (local sales and import duties, calculated on goods and shipping) plus a substantial 'brokerage fee'.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: vogel1230 on Oct 22, 2012, 05:51 pm
I just checked out the US postal website and a small flat rate box (Priority Mail International) from US to Australia is $16.95 USD.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: vogel1230 on Oct 22, 2012, 06:00 pm
I show an estimated ship date of 12/3/12 on my mouser order, but they are going to try and firm that up. As of right now they have 13 available to purchase on their initial stock order of 25.

That US postal shipping info was with a delivery of 6-10 business days and no tracking or insurance available at this price. As soon as you add the tracking and insurance it jumps to roughly $40
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: pico on Oct 22, 2012, 06:00 pm

Ouch! That's nearly $40 for the shipping.


Ouch indeed.

I'm not too worried about waiting for the dust to settle on all of this to check out my options. I've got a couple of Teensy 3.0 on the way to play with to scratch any near-term Cortex-3/4 itches -- I always like to have a spare of a new dev board I'm working with on hand, to see if it's a hardware error (i.e., I've blown up the board) or a software error (keep looking at code and pulling out hair...)

I've also got a cubieboard on order and I've just taken delivery of another Raspberry Pi (one of the new ones with the 512MB RAM). So I'm likely to be busy for a while with new toys of the ARM persuasion in any case.

Paul still had some Teensies in stock last time I looked, if anyone simply MUST have their ARM fix NOW...  :smiley-mr-green:
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: pYro_65 on Oct 22, 2012, 09:36 pm

pYro_65
unfortunatly the courier from europe to australia is going to expensive... We're not ripping you off.. they are.
We have distributors around the world to alleviate this problem.
I think that accusing us of "daylight robbery" is unfair.

As I said before we can't use the postal shipping because there are way too many packages that get "lost". since there is no way to track then efficently in many countries, we had to ship boards multiple times.

m


Yes, maybe my words were a bit strong for what I intended, I've been waiting to do testing on a large Arduino specific library for almost 10 months now, held off buying other 32bit arm & avr boards like the Olimex. If the estimated postal price was released a year ago, I would not have bothered waiting. The clones will flood in soon.

I would have been happy accepting some risk, also maybe some sarcasm was lost in translation, for that price I'd expect it to be delivered at gun point.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: pico on Oct 23, 2012, 04:34 am

The clones will flood in soon.


Maybe, maybe not. Could be only a few weeks, but could be many months as well. The limiting factor will be the availability of the Atmel part. Typically, a new part gets "rationed" out to the high-volume, strategic customers (like Arduino) until the production and inventory catches up to the general demand. I'm not sure what the word is at the moment of the availability of this particular part, but I wouldn't be surprised if they have long lead times for anyone but a select few customers at this point.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: pYro_65 on Oct 23, 2012, 04:55 am
Yeah, true. But are Arduino and its distributors going to face the same problem, I notice the store only has 11 left.
For something like this it'd be nice to have the authentic stuff, however a few spare clones would be handy for creating network applications, or something that could possibly damage the board.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: westfw on Oct 23, 2012, 05:07 am
Quote
The IDE tools configuration looks amazingly similar to mpide

People have said in the past that the official support was going to be based on the MPIDE stuff...
(grr.  I can't find exactly WHERE that was said, though.)  It would be pretty foolish to do differently, IMO.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: funkyguy4000 on Oct 23, 2012, 06:04 am
Quote
MPIDE


What is that?
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: bperrybap on Oct 23, 2012, 06:36 am

Quote
MPIDE


What is that?

It is the IDE that the chipkit guys developed for their 32 bit pic32 "duino" boards that also supports
the AVR based "duino" boards.
It was based on the 0022/0023 Arduino IDE code
and was intended to be a base for supporting "multiple processors" (rather than just the AVR)
by allowing easy integration of other processors.
Hence the name "mpide"

http://www.chipkit.org/forum/index.php (http://www.chipkit.org/forum/index.php)
http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Catalog.cfm?NavPath=2,892&Cat=18 (http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Catalog.cfm?NavPath=2,892&Cat=18)

I was surprised to see the convergence in that if I remember correctly there were some disputes over how to
handle adding in support for non AVR based processors and the "openness" of the Arduino code and development
process in general which eventually led to the fracture.

--- bill
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: pico on Oct 23, 2012, 06:44 am

Yeah, true. But are Arduino and its distributors going to face the same problem, I notice the store only has 11 left.


Well, if Arduino themselves are having any problems at all getting supply at this stage, I'd say the clone makers will be completely out of the picture for the time being.

Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: Markus_L811 on Oct 23, 2012, 01:16 pm


Yeah, true. But are Arduino and its distributors going to face the same problem, I notice the store only has 11 left.


Well, if Arduino themselves are having any problems at all getting supply at this stage, I'd say the clone makers will be completely out of the picture for the time being.


Well, "SOLD OUT" how many DUE did Arduino sell in maybe 30 hours? What a meltdown...
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: Louis Davis on Oct 23, 2012, 05:16 pm
Adafruit has the Due in stock:
http://www.adafruit.com/products/1076
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: JonMarkGo on Oct 23, 2012, 05:56 pm
Just ordered mine, looks like they only have 5 left now.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: vogel1230 on Oct 24, 2012, 04:13 am
Mouser shows that they now have 1020 Due boards on order. Must have decided to get a jump on things after thier original order of 25 went quickly @ roughly $40 ea.

Looks like they have 295 of the chips by themselves on order. I saw Arrow Electronics has 70 chips in stock @ $9.28 ea. This is assuming I'm correct that the part number is ATSAM3X8EA-AU
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: vogel1230 on Oct 24, 2012, 04:17 am
Most places are showing about a 10-12 week lead time on chip only orders. I'm sure Atmel will see a rise in demand very shortly.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: westfw on Oct 24, 2012, 10:40 am
I went to Atmel's "Technology on Tour" training today, which was essentially an introduction to Atmel Studio and the Atmel Software Framework (pay $99, get a JTAG ICE3 and a xmega a3bu Xplained board.  good deal.)  (also, the training was pretty good.)

AS/ASF has a "quick start" mode where you can set up a project based on a bunch of pre-defined "boards" (like the xplained boards.

One of the pre-defined boards is the Arduino Due...
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: Far-seeker on Oct 24, 2012, 03:36 pm

One of the pre-defined boards is the Arduino Due...


Well it's nice to know the support of the two organizations is a two-way street.
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: vogel1230 on Oct 25, 2012, 11:44 pm
I'm a little disappointed in Mouser Electronics. They jumped the price of their Due boards from $36 to $48. Not that $48 is too high I was just really looking forward to the same great deal I got on my first board........or maybe I just was able to take advantage of a mistake before they caught it. ;)
Title: Re: Is Arduino Due coming?
Post by: MOUSER_EMBEDDED on Nov 20, 2012, 08:23 pm
It was a mistake, sorry.  Great news though, the first 100 Dues shipped out from our warehouse today so if you were one of the lucky designers who got it on order that first 1-3 days, it should be on its way!  Another 100 - 150 should ship in the first week of December (or sooner if we can help it).  Enjoy and let us know how you like them!

- Tim