Go Down

Topic: questions in politics ,ethics and death . (Read 2321 times) previous topic - next topic

amine2

@ amine2

"your belief that aliens exist is therefore unjustifiable ... ultra-dimensional aliens are highly probable though ."

You just clearly contradicted yourself in a single statement.
You clearly believe in aliens, yet tell me my belief is false (regardless of realm / dimension / solar system etc).

let me make myself more clear ... the existence of aliens in our dimension (the ones that can actually get in contact or notify us of their existence) is highly improbable . though if you quit the dimension (with that i include time , and all the active dimensions if you count string theory) the possibilities are speculated to be endless therefore aliens would probably exist , but in the relative perceivable existence , they don't relative to us .
it's all about the melons .

Grumpy_Mike

#31
Jul 18, 2016, 11:30 pm Last Edit: Jul 18, 2016, 11:32 pm by Grumpy_Mike
- i think all the religions came from a single pre-historical one , you cannot explain the tendency in any other way .
No it is not and yes you can.

The needs that all religions supply are the universal needs of human beings, irrespective of any culture. It is known that religions developed in all cultures even though they never had any contact with other cultures. Religions answer those all important questions that every one asks. Like how did I get here, why am I here and what happens after death. Each culture develops a system to answer that to a non educated population as well as throwing in some rules to allow healthy communal living in cities. As the culture becomes more sophisticated then the religions become more abstract.

They serve a vital service in population control ( that is control of the population not breeding ) and as such are very powerful. This leads inevitably to a small group exploiting this power to their own ends and pushes the religion to support this.

This applies not only to religions but to methods of government. For example the communist system is a very good system. Unfortunately all attempts to set it up have quickly been perverted. Same goes for capitalism only I think the perversion is a lot slower but however I think we are seeing the culmination of this at the moment, and the rise of religions again, which, when I was young in the 60s we thought we had beaten off for good.
   

ballscrewbob

let me make myself more clear ... the existence of aliens in our dimension (the ones that can actually get in contact or notify us of their existence) is highly improbable . though if you quit the dimension (with that i include time , and all the active dimensions if you count string theory) the possibilities are speculated to be endless therefore aliens would probably exist , but in the relative perceivable existence , they don't relative to us .
Again stop with the self contradictions. They do or they don't, yes / no.
No worming in and out of speculative realms to qualify a yes and then a no.

I was also inclusive of intelligent or not. Life forms don't need to be intelligent to exist and don't need to be able to communicate with us to exist.

Science has already shown us that the building blocks for life exist outside our tiny planet by way of the Rosetta mission and the Mars missions along with quantifiable evidence of viable but toxic / inhospitable to human atmospheres for life forms in other planets. Its also why a recent mission will be sent to oblivion so as not to contaminate a planet when the next mission goes to do an actual landing and test for signs of life ( Alien)

Are they wrong ?

Would not any form of life not of earth be Alien ?

You seem to assume that all Aliens must be intelligent which is a bad assumption to make.
Your seeming unwillingness that other life cannot function off planet earth is also a poor scientific assumption. Bearing in mind scientists continue to strive to prove you wrong, are they all wrong ?
The fact that a life form cannot communicate with us does not preclude it from being Alien regardless of how low in form it may be.

Life not of planet Earth is getting more attention from Science now more than ever.







It may not be the answer you were looking for but its the one I am giving based on either experience, educated guess, google or the fact that you gave nothing to go with in the first place so I used my wonky crystal ball.

ballscrewbob

No it is not and yes you can.

The needs that all religions supply are the universal needs of human beings, irrespective of any culture. It is known that religions developed in all cultures even though they never had any contact with other cultures. Religions answer those all important questions that every one asks. Like how did I get here, why am I here and what happens after death. Each culture develops a system to answer that to a non educated population as well as throwing in some rules to allow healthy communal living in cities. As the culture becomes more sophisticated then the religions become more abstract.

They serve a vital service in population control ( that is control of the population not breeding ) and as such are very powerful. This leads inevitably to a small group exploiting this power to their own ends and pushes the religion to support this.

This applies not only to religions but to methods of government. For example the communist system is a very good system. Unfortunately all attempts to set it up have quickly been perverted. Same goes for capitalism only I think the perversion is a lot slower but however I think we are seeing the culmination of this at the moment, and the rise of religions again, which, when I was young in the 60s we thought we had beaten off for good.
   
Well articulated response. only disagreement would be with capitalism which has always been a point of contention in larger companies where higher levels of corruption occur and often go without corresponding punishment and in some cases even lead to promotion.
It may not be the answer you were looking for but its the one I am giving based on either experience, educated guess, google or the fact that you gave nothing to go with in the first place so I used my wonky crystal ball.

Robin2

Religions answer those all important questions that every one asks. Like how did I get here, why am I here and what happens after death.
That was understandable before Charles Darwin - but not after.

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

msssltd

#35
Jul 19, 2016, 09:49 am Last Edit: Jul 19, 2016, 09:50 am by MattS-UK
Again stop with the self contradictions. They do or they don't, yes / no.
No worming in and out of speculative realms to qualify a yes and then a no.
Lack of evidence is not proof and lack of proof is not evidence.  Therefore, the existence of aliens having not been proven true, demanding a yes or no answer creates a false dichotomy; forcing one into the realm of speculative conjecture.  Until such time that, whatever we might classify as, 'space aliens,' are conclusively proven to exist, such existence remains a fractional value between true (1) and false (0).

In an infinite context, without dimension, it can not be proven conclusively that aliens do not exist; as such existence might always be proven tomorrow.  Therefore, it must be deduced that in fact aliens do exist.  

However, before you get all excited about the impending arrival of E.Ts. parent's.  Our own existence, and therefore that of said alien parents, is highly debatable.  Best explained by Douglas Adams in "The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy"

"
Population [The Universe]
---------------------
None. Although you might see people from time to time, they are most likely products of your imagination. Simple mathematics tells us that the population of the Universe must be zero. Why? Well given that the volume of the universe is infinite there must be an infinite number of worlds. But not all of them are populated; therefore only a finite number are. Any finite number divided by infinity is as close to zero as makes no odds, therefore we can round the average population of the Universe to zero, and so the total population must be zero.
"

Q.E.D. I trust this clarifies things for you.

:)


Robin2

before you get all excited about the impending arrival of E.Ts. parent's.
That's an old movie - won't the parents be dead by now?

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

Grumpy_Mike

the existence of aliens in our dimension (the ones that can actually get in contact or notify us of their existence) is highly improbable . though if you quit the dimension (with that i include time , and all the active dimensions if you count string theory) the possibilities are speculated to be endless therefore aliens would probably exist ,
I think these concepts of extra dimensions owe more to DC comics than to string theory.

amine2

No it is not and yes you can.

The needs that all religions supply are the universal needs of human beings, irrespective of any culture. It is known that religions developed in all cultures even though they never had any contact with other cultures. Religions answer those all important questions that every one asks. Like how did I get here, why am I here and what happens after death. Each culture develops a system to answer that to a non educated population as well as throwing in some rules to allow healthy communal living in cities. As the culture becomes more sophisticated then the religions become more abstract.

They serve a vital service in population control ( that is control of the population not breeding ) and as such are very powerful. This leads inevitably to a small group exploiting this power to their own ends and pushes the religion to support this.

This applies not only to religions but to methods of government. For example the communist system is a very good system. Unfortunately all attempts to set it up have quickly been perverted. Same goes for capitalism only I think the perversion is a lot slower but however I think we are seeing the culmination of this at the moment, and the rise of religions again, which, when I was young in the 60s we thought we had beaten off for good.
   
hi , i did read many books regarding the matter . i am unable to find a scientific backup to what you just said . but the more reasonable scientific explantation to religions is the human need for protection (of all kinds) whar you said actually goes Under that in some sort .

that and what you mentioned are theories that cannot be proven . i stated my opinion regarding the matter and you stated yours though it's nearly impossible to prove either one . so saying "No it is not" in absolution is not a reasonable statement .
it's all about the melons .

amine2

Again stop with the self contradictions. They do or they don't, yes / no.
No worming in and out of speculative realms to qualify a yes and then a no.

I was also inclusive of intelligent or not. Life forms don't need to be intelligent to exist and don't need to be able to communicate with us to exist.

Science has already shown us that the building blocks for life exist outside our tiny planet by way of the Rosetta mission and the Mars missions along with quantifiable evidence of viable but toxic / inhospitable to human atmospheres for life forms in other planets. Its also why a recent mission will be sent to oblivion so as not to contaminate a planet when the next mission goes to do an actual landing and test for signs of life ( Alien)

Are they wrong ?

Would not any form of life not of earth be Alien ?

You seem to assume that all Aliens must be intelligent which is a bad assumption to make.
Your seeming unwillingness that other life cannot function off planet earth is also a poor scientific assumption. Bearing in mind scientists continue to strive to prove you wrong, are they all wrong ?
The fact that a life form cannot communicate with us does not preclude it from being Alien regardless of how low in form it may be.

Life not of planet Earth is getting more attention from Science now more than ever.


can you please state your definition of a "life form" ? and you seem not to understand that "to exist" is only relative to Something or to a perspective .. you can exist relative to Something and not exist relative to Something else , your demand is therefore meanless .
it's all about the melons .

amine2

That was understandable before Charles Darwin - but not after.

...R
it isn't just Charles Darwin ...and you must understand that Science hasn't explained anything yet when it comes to the bear origins of the universe .
it's all about the melons .

amine2

I think these concepts of extra dimensions owe more to DC comics than to string theory.
i am afraid you did not understand what i stated sir ...
it's all about the melons .

ballscrewbob

Lack of evidence is not proof and lack of proof is not evidence.  Therefore, the existence of aliens having not been proven true, demanding a yes or no answer creates a false dichotomy; forcing one into the realm of speculative conjecture.  Until such time that, whatever we might classify as, 'space aliens,' are conclusively proven to exist, such existence remains a fractional value between true (1) and false (0).

In an infinite context, without dimension, it can not be proven conclusively that aliens do not exist; as such existence might always be proven tomorrow.  Therefore, it must be deduced that in fact aliens do exist. 

However, before you get all excited about the impending arrival of E.Ts. parent's.  Our own existence, and therefore that of said alien parents, is highly debatable.  Best explained by Douglas Adams in "The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy"

"
Population [The Universe]
---------------------
None. Although you might see people from time to time, they are most likely products of your imagination. Simple mathematics tells us that the population of the Universe must be zero. Why? Well given that the volume of the universe is infinite there must be an infinite number of worlds. But not all of them are populated; therefore only a finite number are. Any finite number divided by infinity is as close to zero as makes no odds, therefore we can round the average population of the Universe to zero, and so the total population must be zero.
"

Q.E.D. I trust this clarifies things for you.

:)


My point was that amine2 made a claim that they do and that they don't and was pretty clear about it going so far as to make a similar statement twice.
I was seeking his clarification on his contradictory view to my original statement " (intelligent or otherwise)" and also within this current universe / solar system.

I accept the point that until it is actually proven then there is no correct answer as is the case with God and many other topics. A simple I believe in Alien life forms within this universe / solar system or I don't is all I sought. Personally I do believe that a life form of some description will be found based on the fact that science is more and more aiming its tools at this very issue. I don't think they would unless the have a strong suspicion that it does.

So far he seems to have avoided simple direct answers to any points by members and instead often talks about obtuse points in regard to other realms / dimensions and often cartoon based science which might give reason to the avatar I guess ?


As far as hitchhikers guide I read the book in school, saw a stage version before I saw the film and loved all three. An avid SciFi fan here. And yes I know SciFi often mimics real life and science before and after the fact.
It may not be the answer you were looking for but its the one I am giving based on either experience, educated guess, google or the fact that you gave nothing to go with in the first place so I used my wonky crystal ball.

dlloyd

Lack of evidence is not proof and lack of proof is not evidence.  Therefore, the existence of aliens having not been proven true, demanding a yes or no answer creates a false dichotomy; forcing one into the realm of speculative conjecture.  Until such time that, whatever we might classify as, 'space aliens,' are conclusively proven to exist, such existence remains a fractional value between true (1) and false (0).

In an infinite context ... ... ... Q.E.D. I trust this clarifies things for you.
If your trying to find the answer using code, try something like this: 

byte TheAnswerToLifeTheUniverseAndEverything = 42;

ballscrewbob

can you please state your definition of a "life form" ? and you seem not to understand that "to exist" is only relative to Something or to a perspective .. you can exist relative to Something and not exist relative to Something else , your demand is therefore meanless .
From your responses I can only take into consideration that you have not made any attempt to address any points made not just by me but by others.

Its both a waste of my time in this part of the topic and probably others until you see fit to read and reply to specifics instead of reliance on sudo and cartoon science or stop trying to poke the subject into your view of alien life with banal responses.

Maybe open a new topic "Sci Fi" or something similar ?

BTW my view of "life form" ranges anywhere from single cell upward. And as I clearly stated "lower"  but you failed to comprehend that, the topic is moot.

"meaningless"
It may not be the answer you were looking for but its the one I am giving based on either experience, educated guess, google or the fact that you gave nothing to go with in the first place so I used my wonky crystal ball.

Go Up