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Topic: Texas school shooting (Read 1 time) previous topic - next topic

TolpuddleSartre

The sad fact is that most militias like the support they get from politicians who turn into despots and don't see the political danger until it is too late (if they ever do see it). Nazi Germany is probably the best (or is it worst?) example.

...R
The "militia" in that case would be the Sturmabteilung or Brownshirts, not the Heer (army) or the Wehrmacht (armed forces in general).
The Sturmabteilung were not well-regulated, and were purged, when Hitler viewed them as a threat to his political legitimacy, because of their reputation for thuggery.

Unfortunately, the vacuum left was filled by the paramilitary Schutzstaffel, who carried out the purge.
"I've gone off the idea of progress. It's overrated."
Arthur Dent

ardly

....
I have recently been informed that guns are not the problem and that fewer guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens means more crime. Everywhere they take guns away there's a spike in violent crime.

When I pointed out that Australia had their first mass shooting in not 22 days but 22 years I was informed that other violent crime there more than makes up for fewer guns...
Somebody needs to give you some statistics to backup what they have been telling you.
Assuming this website is accurate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

  • you definitely don't want to go to El Savador as the murder rate was 108.64 per 100,000 population.
  • the US Virgin Islands chalked up a rate of 52.64
  • the British Virgin Islands only had a rate of 2 ( guess they don't have guns).
  • Australia was a positely wimpy 0.98
  • Gun toting USA was 4.88


Guns make crime too easy for people who are mad, bad, drunk or drugged.
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored" - Aldous Huxley

allanhurst


TolpuddleSartre

Guns make crime too easy for people who are mad, bad, drunk or drugged.
Well, banning drink didn't help, banning drugs hasn't been a model of success . . .
"I've gone off the idea of progress. It's overrated."
Arthur Dent

Robin2

The "militia" in that case would be the Sturmabteilung or Brownshirts, not the Heer (army) or the Wehrmacht (armed forces in general).
The Sturmabteilung were not well-regulated, and were purged, when Hitler viewed them as a threat to his political legitimacy, because of their reputation for thuggery.

Unfortunately, the vacuum left was filled by the paramilitary Schutzstaffel, who carried out the purge.
I don't understand the point you are trying to make.

I am not aware from anything I have read that the Wehrmacht High Command ever said to themselves "That Hitler guy and his lackeys are going to be a menace to society, we need to put a stop to him" Quite the contrary. they were happy to be re-armed in defiance of international treaties and go off and kill lots of people in the Spanish civil war just for practice.

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

TolpuddleSartre

I was pointing out that the Brownshirts were a militia, but not a well-regulated militia. They were affiliated with the root cause of the problem, and were unlikely to ovethrow that cause.
The Heer was not a militia at all.
As far as I'm aware, there was no German militia until the Volksstrum was instituted towards the end of the war.

You were the one who brought up the example of post-WW1 Germany, I was merely indicating the flaws in your analogy.
"I've gone off the idea of progress. It's overrated."
Arthur Dent

Coding Badly

I have recently been informed that guns are not the problem and that fewer guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens means more crime.
Chicago.  The study was flawed to the point of being the dictionary definition of Bias Confirmation.


Robin2

You were the one who brought up the example of post-WW1 Germany, I was merely indicating the flaws in your analogy.
And I stand by my analogy. The concept in the US Constitution is that the people should be able to defend themselves from "officialdom" when it abuses its position.


That does not mean that I myself believe the right to bear arms is necessary or desirable.

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

Coding Badly

#38
May 22, 2018, 10:34 pm Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 09:46 am by Coding Badly
...defend themselves from "officialdom" when it abuses its position...
We crossed that bridge with the financial crisis.  The financial industry nearly cratered the world economy.  The U.S. government was complicit at every point.  Most of the members of congress who were involved are still getting a paycheck from the taxpayer.  While we may possess the ability to rise up against our oppressors (lots and lots of guns) it is painfully obvious we have no idea when that should happen (can't even vote out those oppressing us).  The people who hoard guns have imagined this dressed-in-black-boogeyman that comes for them in the night all the while the smiling bible toting NRA parrot at the front door is destroying their lives.


GoForSmoke

And I stand by my analogy. The concept in the US Constitution is that the people should be able to defend themselves from "officialdom" when it abuses its position.


That does not mean that I myself believe the right to bear arms is necessary or desirable.

...R
The Army that I served in and left coming on 40 years ago could easily pound rifle-armed "militias" down into the bedrock.
1) http://gammon.com.au/blink  <-- tasking Arduino 1-2-3
2) http://gammon.com.au/serial <-- techniques howto
3) http://gammon.com.au/interrupts
Your sketch can sense ongoing process events in time.
Your sketch can make events to control it over time.

TolpuddleSartre

"I've gone off the idea of progress. It's overrated."
Arthur Dent

Robin2

The Army that I served in and left coming on 40 years ago could easily pound rifle-armed "militias" down into the bedrock.
I was only trying to explain what it means. I never said it is relevant to today's reality.

And in an attempt to appease @TollpuddleSartre it probably would have had little practical relevance in Nazi Germany even though that was about 90 years ago.

One wonders if it even had practical relevance when it was written - or was it just political weasel words to keep some clique onside?


All of which leads me to think it could usefully be repealed now.

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

GoForSmoke

Hitler as Chancellor made the Brown Shirts as a populist organization under his direction. Then he made the Black Shirts and then had the Black Shirts murder the Brown Shirts who lost the mean dog show, what an embarrassment, fired! The Black Shirts became the SS.
1) http://gammon.com.au/blink  <-- tasking Arduino 1-2-3
2) http://gammon.com.au/serial <-- techniques howto
3) http://gammon.com.au/interrupts
Your sketch can sense ongoing process events in time.
Your sketch can make events to control it over time.

Robin2

Hitler as Chancellor made the Brown Shirts as a populist organization under his direction. Then he made the Black Shirts and then had the Black Shirts murder the Brown Shirts who lost the mean dog show, what an embarrassment, fired! The Black Shirts became the SS.
And the relevance to the US Constitution is ... ?

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

ardly

And the relevance to the US Constitution is ... ?

...R
I think Hitler is quite relevant. After WWI Germany was a democracy and there were lots of weapons kicking about. Hitler managed to get control of an organised, uniformed, armed,  militia the "Brownshirts" and he attempted to gain control of the country in a putsch. He failed and ended up in jail.

He then made a comeback but instead of attempting a revolution from below he took control of the levers of power from above. Once he had control of the army the country was his.

I think the American founding fathers favoured a country with lots of citizens militias that would unify in times of national threat rather than a large standing army. Somebody unsavory might take control of a militia but they could not take over the country (just as Hitler failed), but if somebody took over a standing army the country was theirs (again just like Hitler).

Now there is the example in the US of one man, who many regard as unstable, having an enormous amount of power, largely unchecked, in his hands.
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored" - Aldous Huxley

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