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Topic: Arduino Due Obsolete? (Read 14399 times) previous topic - next topic

Palliser

#15
Jun 06, 2016, 03:37 pm Last Edit: Jun 06, 2016, 03:39 pm by Palliser
I don't see any i2c pullups on the board.  Are you complaining that the library enables them in the chip?  That should be easy enough to change (but why?)
There are two 1K5 pullups (RN5A/RN5B) connected to the i2c pins (SDA(86)/SCL(87)). They are part of a quad RN array resistor located besides the 7CE33Z regulator (besides the square coil)....but why?

-p

Paul Stoffregen

#16
Jun 06, 2016, 08:56 pm Last Edit: Jun 06, 2016, 09:10 pm by Paul Stoffregen
Since only Arduino dot ORG is still manufacturing Due, any requests for improving the hardware would probably be better sent to them.  They really do seem to be competent and interesting in the hardware side, so perhaps there's some chance these long-standing Due hardware limitations might get fixed?  Maybe?

Likewise for Due's software & libraries, but so far the dot ORG folks haven't shown much interest or ability on the software side.  Their approach seems to be mostly copying from Arduino dot CC.  They're trying to start up a "foundation" that will basically crowdsource open source software development for their hardware products.  How well that really support Due or any other boards remains to be seen.  I'm trying really hard not be too cynical...

The Arduino dot ORG folks are also making a powerful STM32-based board.  At the risk of gratuitous self promotion, I should probably mention a more powerful Teensy is in development with a 180 MHz Cortex-M4F chip.  A more powerful ESP chip is also coming.  These 3 are probably the near-term future for people wanting more powerful Arduino-compatible boards.  The ESP stuff seems to now be maturing pretty well.  I have a pretty good idea how I'm going to do the software side for Teensy (you can expect more of the same sort of software support I've always done).  It'll be interesting to see how Arduino dot ORG do on software for their first couple boards that aren't related to anything Arduino dot CC ever did.

westfw

Oh THOSE SCL/SDA pins.  I was looking at the ones to the R3 SCL/SDA connector (which are xxx1 rather than xxx0-3, and don't have any pullup.)   Yes, it seems particularly weird to put pullups on pins that aren't specifically dedicated to I2C...


ArthurD

#18
Jun 07, 2016, 04:56 pm Last Edit: Jun 07, 2016, 05:23 pm by ArthurD
Teensy is no option because of far too few IO pins.
The 50-60 dPins and 12 Apins of a Due (like on a mega) plus 2x i2c + 4x UART plus the RAM and the cpu power are of invaluable advantage.

just the SD file system is missing plus stdio.h keyboard key reading from host USB.
yes, and the built-in pullups in i2c0 are messing everything up (thank God at least i2c1 hasn't got them, too). IIRC, they can't be disabled by software.

Paul Stoffregen

The 50-60 dPins and 12 Apins of a Due (like on a mega) plus 2x i2c + 4x UART plus the RAM and the cpu power are of invaluable advantage.
How does 40 digital pins (20 of them with analog), plus a dozen more on a connector, with 6 UART, 4 I2C, 3 SPI, 2 DAC, 2 USB (one 480 Mbit/sec) sound to you?  How about running at 180 MHz with FPU?

ArthurD

#20
Jun 08, 2016, 08:11 pm Last Edit: Jun 08, 2016, 09:53 pm by ArthurD
programmable with the Arduino IDE?
awesome!
Do you have more details?
is it already available?

edit,
now I understand, you mean what you mentioned above...
Quote
Teensy is in development with a 180 MHz Cortex-M4F chip.  A more powerful ESP chip is also coming.  These 3 are probably the near-term future for people wanting more powerful Arduino-compatible boards.
I thought by Teensy you would mean a current Teensy ARM core board.
https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/

Paul Stoffregen

is it already available?
Not quite.  Beta testing now.

ArthurD

#22
Jun 17, 2016, 10:27 am Last Edit: Jun 17, 2016, 01:25 pm by ArthurD
yes, I assumed it would be that way.

Anyway:
1st) I would expect full support for the Due board nevertheless,
and 2nd) actually, on the long run, both the Due and all the Teensies will be far too small, too:

Just a Board compareable to the Raspberry Pi or the BeagleBone Blue (Quadcore, 32-64bit, 1GB, 1GHz, ~70-80 GPIOs) would be powerful enough for my requirements (or the vanished Arduino Tre, but also powered then by a quadcore instead):

All Features like GPIOs, I2C, UART, SPI, CAN,  HDMI TFT display (+ resolution settings), audio/sound, SD file r/w access,  WiFi, BT, USB communication + devices, and everything accessable via the 1 and only simple Arduino IDE.

No makefile, cmake, make at all,
just simple #include the libs which are needed.

AdderD

Things like the RPi and BBB are nice but they have kind of a downside. Yes, they have very fast processors, much more RAM, etc but one tends to be abstracted a very long way away from the bare metal. The fact that you tend to be running linux means that your latency can be *worse* than on a Due because anything that happens has to bubble down through all the abstraction layers. Also, I know a lot of people have trouble doing direct access to hardware ports on something like a Due but at least you *can*. On the bigger stuff there are protection systems as well so you have to write kernel mode drivers for direct access. Anyway, my point is that complication goes up dramatically when you go to those faster, more capable products.

But, if someone built a board with a 2GHz processor, 4GB of RAM, and a boatload of features but they didn't use linux or at least built an Arduino like environment on top I would probably be interested. Some things are fine and well with a Due. Other things maybe could use more power. Yeah, RPi has python so it's kind of similar but really I'd like something like RPi but instead of focusing on video focus on being a direct metal version like Arduino where there is a shiny veneer over top but nothing stops you from going straight to the metal if you want. Of course, as processors get faster and more feature rich they also become more difficult to work with at a low level. But, even a Cortex M7 might work. Those are something like 300MHz aren't they? They've got a lot more features than the M3 in the Due but they're still in a same general ballpark just faster and a bit more feature rich. Heck, even add some externally connected RAM and really up the ante. This isn't quite so stark a change as going to a quad core monster and easier to work with.

ArthurD

#24
Jun 17, 2016, 05:10 pm Last Edit: Jun 19, 2016, 09:14 am by ArthurD
some things work with small processors, some don't (neural nets, speech recognition by FFT cross correlation, full-HD multimedia,...)
Using libs on the PI  like joan's pigpio, you may work already extremely quick on the Pi's proprietary GPIO pins, and using pthread by thread priorities you can come quite close to real-time behaviour - not to talk about real-time kernels.
OTOH, attaching additional hook-up AVR- and ARM-boards (e.g., Propeller-HAT  or even additional MCUs integrated on the backpane as on the BBBlue or once planned on the TRE or even on the YUN)  you can have the best of 2 worlds.

All depends on what you intend to do, no question.
For a hen flap a AVR will do, for a neural net a 64bit 1GHz 1GB quadcore might even bend your knees...

The IDEs and the API libs will make the difference in the end.

And not to forget: I am finally not known to be a friend of Linux or Python.
So why not have a bare-metal 64bit-super-quadcore powered by a Arduino IDE?
Or perhaps even driven by Windows 10?

But back to topic:
The Due is highly neglected currently IMO, but eventually: it's already available, and so it's actually not a long way off.

Paul Stoffregen

#25
Jun 22, 2016, 12:03 am Last Edit: Jun 22, 2016, 12:05 am by Paul Stoffregen
But back to topic:
The Due is highly neglected currently IMO,
Well, Due has officially moved to Arduino.cc's retired products list.  Hard to imagine new development is going to happen for a retired product...

https://www.arduino.cc/en/Main/Products#retired

Arduino.org still lists it as a current product and some distributors like Sparkfun appear to be stocking it, so at least it seems the hardware will be still be available for a while (if you discount rumors of Atmel dropping this chip).  But the dot org folks so far don't seem to have done any meaningful software development for Due, and their efforts for boards like M0 Pro pale in comparison to the much better software work from Arduino.cc.

It'll be really interesting to see whether the dot org folks manage to publish decent software support for their upcoming products using ST and Nordic chips.  As far as I can tell, these are their first products where they can't simply copy from Arduino.cc.  But perhaps they'll leverage the already-developed STM32 core library or older stuff from Maple?

westfw

Quote
perhaps they'll leverage the already-developed STM32 core library or older stuff from Maple?
Don't forget http://stm32duino.com/ where Roger Clark and others have been updating/replacing the old Maple code with much more modern and generally capable versions.  I've long thought that what arduino.org needed to do was actively recruit some of the more cluefull developers from the forums.  Perhaps they have...
(but it looks like not: http://stm32duino.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=1115&p=14863


ArthurD

well, I have 2 Dues and I'm rather fine with their performance and the number of IOs.
Just a better suppport by Arduino.cc libs and shilelds would be wishful.
Most Arduino shields regrettably don't work on the Due, just on the Uno.

MrAl

Hi there,

I havent tried to buy a Due in a while now.
When i got mine i was a little put off that it was 3.3v only, and will burn out if we apply a pullup to +5v for example.  Some CPU's are 5v tolerant even though they run on 3.3v normally.

But aside from that, it's a pretty interesting board.  I hope to start using mine soon.  I look forward especially to the 12 bit ADC and also the 12 bit DAC, which dosent come on any other boards.
I just have to rig up a good interface that goes from 3.3 to 5v for some devices i need.  I am on my way but it will take  a little longer yet, especially since i just got a Mega the other day and want to work with that a little first.  That's a really awesome board with lots of i/o's and it is 5v so i can connect all my usual stuff to it.
The memory in that thing is enormous.


Paul Stoffregen

#29
Jun 23, 2016, 11:06 pm Last Edit: Jun 23, 2016, 11:07 pm by Paul Stoffregen
Some CPU's are 5v tolerant even though they run on 3.3v normally.
......
I look forward especially to the 12 bit ADC and also the 12 bit DAC, which dosent come on any other boards.
Oh, there might indeed be a board with about the same performance as Due with very good Arduino compatibility & support, with 12 bit ADC & DAC and even 5V tolerance on its I/O pins....

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