Forum Parasites

I believe that in the beginning that the purpose of a forum was education. I have been involved in education for my entire life but I think that the majority of forums are or have become a platform for the promotion of arrogance and self-aggrandizement. I became interested in the arduino as learning tool only six months ago and have asked for help through all sorts of media but in this age, the prevalent form is the "forum". I have been abused and mutilated for my serious ineptitude and ignorance by all sorts of magnificent and self-absorbed personages who claim to be the experts of arduino and C++ and just about everything remotely related. Where are the real teachers?

Where are the individuals who want to help without being overbearing and obnoxious? The problem with the forum as a tool for education is not with the student that asks "the stupid question" or that "didn't do his homework" but the parasite seeking a platform for appreciation of his superior intellect and wishing to intimidate rather than assist. Organizations that host forums as a learning tool and the moderators that are supposed to police them should monitor this activity which smacks of self-promotion and put a stop to it.

The best teachers always promote questions in ANY form (with or without regard to highlights and/or capitalization or anything ELSE that is designed to bring attention to their desire to learn)!!

You learn to filter information.
Ignor the things that need to be ignored.
Don't comment to those who don't deserve a comment.
You should always provide as much appropriate information as possible.

hugheshmw:
The best teachers always promote questions in ANY form (with or without regard to highlights and/or capitalization or anything ELSE that is designed to bring attention to their desire to learn)!!

My irony meter just melted.

Where are the real teachers?

It's a forum; who says the members have to be teachers?
That's like saying members of Parliament have to be lawyers.

The forum isn't even a good medium for teaching, in my opinion.
Certainly, people will learn, but I don't believe that's the same thing as being taught.

the moderators that are supposed to police them should monitor this activity which smacks of self-promotion and put a stop to it.

Even if a little learning manages to leak out in the process?
No.

I have been abused and mutilated for my serious ineptitude and ignorance

And yet you have only one post (this one) on the forum.
Hmmmm.

My irony meter just melted.

:smiley:

AWOL:
And yet you have only one post (this one) on the forum.

Yep I think it would have been big of hugheshmw to have started this thread in his or her existing name.

But the simple fact to the matter is that members are just a bunch of folks with different levels of knowledge, differing points of view, differing abilities when it comes to explaining stuff. There's only one thing that really puts me off a member here, and that's down-right-rudeness; but of course my thinking someone is rude is merely my opinion and that may be seen as banter by others.

Alas, no matter where you go in life you will always encounter "the good, the bad and the a**hole", thank the first and ignore the others if you can.

So the one that tells you you didn't look well enough and that the answer to your question has been given a gazillion times before, is a parasite ?
How would you classify someone who rushes into this forum, dumps his demand on an answer for his question within an hour, and if that answer would been given, will try to remove the thread ?
Or are pissed if the answer to their question didn't arrive within 24 hours ?

Happens too often.

What do you tell a student that asks a question on a subject you already addressed, and they clearly didn't do their assignments on ?

AWOL:

My irony meter just melted.
:D

I buy them in bulk now.

Hi, I just assume a fetal position until it goes away.

Works for me.....Tom...... :slight_smile:

basically note that as humans evolve its expected that we reach "half way" points bridging eras of understanding. So as rubbish as it sounds, the advent of the internet comes to serve a dualistic purpose; 1) enabling the assisted development of the self-learning process of the individual,
2) providing an easily accessible database of knowledge to assist with purpose 1.

So as you can see, purpose 2 is only complementary to purpose 1, although without making self-learning almost impossible, not a necessity.

So that means you will get the situation where our online identity can be one of either someone currently self learning, or the exact role of the search engine programs. ie some just suck the resource dry and occasionally excreting organic waste matter, where as others will provide a vital element in a learning process with an enormous group dynamic involved.

basically note that as humans evolve its expected that we reach "half way" points bridging eras of understanding. So as rubbish as it sounds...

Its all making sense now.

As we go through our lives trying to know a little about everything ... we only end up knowing a lot about nothing.

well yes it feels that way most of the time thats how we know the stove is still switched on.

You better get those parasites taken care of.

Seriously. The guys here are very knowledgeable but they're probably not teachers so you can't expect the 'attention/handholding' that a teacher would spend. I used to be a teacher and know what is required although I'm not a fan of the handholding either. I have to know that my students spent the effort before I'm willing to fully help.

It is a bit depressing how many times the same question appears within one's sphere of expertise. Personally, I ignore such questions most of the time. Others get a bit sarcastic. Others are Saints. And I do take some pride and comfort that the number of people able to answer the repeated questions does seem to rise, gradually.

Personally, I believe that the best teachers are those that teach their students how to learn - ultimately, the job of a teacher is to put him or herself out of business (with each individual student, of course). Once a person is able to teach themselves, the world is their oyster, so to speak...

As far as it concerns the OP's (or other's similar) thoughts:

If you want to receive good answers to your questions in the Arduino forums - be sure to provide us with your complete source code, your schematic and/or hookup diagram (we much prefer a schematic if you have one), as well as clear pictures relating to your project (ie - with a schematic and a clear picture of your breadboard, we can easily spot bad connections, for instance).

Don't give us links to another website showing someone else's implementation (pictures, schematics or code) - we need to see your implementation. I cannot tell you how many times questions have gone round and round with people seeking help, only to find out that they had made a wiring mistake, which we could have spotted fairly quickly had they originally provided us with pictures, etc of their project.

Post your complete code (and use the code tags!); if your code is too large to put in a single post, then provide a link to a github or similar shared area. Sometimes we can diagnose an issue with just a snippet of code, but more often than not, the complete code will reveal to us problems that can't be found with just a snippet. If you can't post the complete code, schematics, or other parts of your project (due to any number of issues), then you may find that we won't be of much help.

Learn how to properly ask questions:

http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Also - don't expect answers immediately - don't sit there waiting, "bumping" the thread every 15 minutes or so; more likely than not, that will just turn off people from helping you. Instead, use your waiting time to think about your problem, and other ways to potentially find the problems or fix it. In other words, be productive with your time waiting - you might just fix it before anyone else does! Be sure to update the thread if you try new things and get results that seem promising (or that fail as well). Most of the time you may have to wait a while, simply because people are trying to look at the problem, understand the issues, and figure out a solution. Some of them (depending on the problem of course) may be trying to replicate your project, to see if they can get the same failures to occur, and how to fix them.

When someone gives you advice, try it out. Don't just sit there and contradict them, or tell them "no that can't be it" - unless you have a really good reason why that would be (and provided you gave us a proper description and such about your project, and asked the questions properly - then you should have addressed those reasons anyhow from the beginning). Nothing is more frustrating than someone asking for help only for them to turn around being contrary after you have given them help.

Also - don't claim you are an engineer or some other high-falutin' title, and then go and ask questions that make us wonder what box of cracker jacks you got your degree from. We can see through that a mile away; we also don't like doing other people's homework for them, and we see those kinds of questions often as well at certain periodic moments (on this and other electronics forums we are on - we all have seen it, we know when the waves are about to start with people asking for homework help - we don't mind honest questions toward understanding, but we don't like being conned into doing someone's homework).

cr0sh:
Personally, I believe that the best teachers are those that teach their students how to learn - ultimately, the job of a teacher is to put him or herself out of business (with each individual student, of course). Once a person is able to teach themselves, the world is their oyster, so to speak...

As far as it concerns the OP's (or other's similar) thoughts:

If you want to receive good answers to your questions in the Arduino forums - be sure to provide us with your complete source code, your schematic and/or hookup diagram (we much prefer a schematic if you have one), as well as clear pictures relating to your project (ie - with a schematic and a clear picture of your breadboard, we can easily spot bad connections, for instance).

Don't give us links to another website showing someone else's implementation (pictures, schematics or code) - we need to see your implementation. I cannot tell you how many times questions have gone round and round with people seeking help, only to find out that they had made a wiring mistake, which we could have spotted fairly quickly had they originally provided us with pictures, etc of their project.

Post your complete code (and use the code tags!); if your code is too large to put in a single post, then provide a link to a github or similar shared area. Sometimes we can diagnose an issue with just a snippet of code, but more often than not, the complete code will reveal to us problems that can't be found with just a snippet. If you can't post the complete code, schematics, or other parts of your project (due to any number of issues), then you may find that we won't be of much help.

Learn how to properly ask questions:

How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

Also - don't expect answers immediately - don't sit there waiting, "bumping" the thread every 15 minutes or so; more likely than not, that will just turn off people from helping you. Instead, use your waiting time to think about your problem, and other ways to potentially find the problems or fix it. In other words, be productive with your time waiting - you might just fix it before anyone else does! Be sure to update the thread if you try new things and get results that seem promising (or that fail as well). Most of the time you may have to wait a while, simply because people are trying to look at the problem, understand the issues, and figure out a solution. Some of them (depending on the problem of course) may be trying to replicate your project, to see if they can get the same failures to occur, and how to fix them.

When someone gives you advice, try it out. Don't just sit there and contradict them, or tell them "no that can't be it" - unless you have a really good reason why that would be (and provided you gave us a proper description and such about your project, and asked the questions properly - then you should have addressed those reasons anyhow from the beginning). Nothing is more frustrating than someone asking for help only for them to turn around being contrary after you have given them help.

Also - don't claim you are an engineer or some other high-falutin' title, and then go and ask questions that make us wonder what box of cracker jacks you got your degree from. We can see through that a mile away; we also don't like doing other people's homework for them, and we see those kinds of questions often as well at certain periodic moments (on this and other electronics forums we are on - we all have seen it, we know when the waves are about to start with people asking for homework help - we don't mind honest questions toward understanding, but we don't like being conned into doing someone's homework).

Well put. Also Google works (most of the time).

Personally, I believe that the best teachers are those that teach their students how to learn

Amen.

I believe that the best teachers are those that teach their students how to learn

you have to add "without discouraging them in the process."

I ... used to do competitive athletics. And one of my major thoughts, looking back on my coaches, is that there are a lot of different coaching styles, and different ones work better for different people. For every period when I can say "I could have been better if I had had a tougher coach", there is also the thought "but if my coach had been TOO tough, I probably would have quit."

in regard to a solution to this problem, is it not possible to create a search program similar to those that rank websites for google, that trawls though the arduino website and picks up recurrent post topics in each category , and grouping them into an archive after being posted 'x' number of times, and prior to every new post, a patch or algorithm that looks for the post title amoungst that archive, and returns a page informing the individual that the topic they are interested in has already been discussed many times in detail, and provide the links to the relevant pages from the archive described above?

i also want to point out that the best teachers i have ever had are the ones that make fun of me for saying something stupid. If people are not allowed to promote their own thoughts, or as stated by the O/P, "draw attention to their superior intellect" then we have a serious problem. We already live in a world where all the wrong characteristics of an individual receive huge amounts of attention for, i honestly think its fair for these "arrogant" individuals to have self confidence because they have earned it, and if people are going to be easily offended then well, f*** them.