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Topic: Opine: Shift key shouldn't be used to program (Read 1 time) previous topic - next topic

Robin2

#15
Jan 20, 2018, 11:28 am Last Edit: Jan 20, 2018, 11:31 am by Robin2
MY dislike of Basic stems from the way it writes, which is fine for dweebs. VB is a half-step better.
I am certainly not advocating VB as the best programming language. All I am saying is that it is good enough if it meets the needs of someone who uses it. And I do not think it is helpful to give the impression that it is rubbish and only fit for people who don't know any better.

Everyone will have his/her preferred programming language. Mine is probably Ruby - but the Ruby infrastructure is poor and Ruby is not as widely used as Python (especially by Forum users) so I use Python where possible. I use C++ on an Arduino because I have no choice.

The one that really P*ss*d me off some years ago was PHP. It seemed like Basic used to be in MSDos days. It has probably improved since then, but I have never gone back to it to find out.

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

GoForSmoke

#16
Jan 21, 2018, 02:04 am Last Edit: Jan 21, 2018, 02:05 am by GoForSmoke
It is fit for people who don't know better. How many people do you know who choose Basic when they know a better language?

If the only others you know are RPG and Cobol then sure, Basic is just great!

I started out PC coding with interpreter Basic and then compiled Basic when we got CP/M. By the time I got MSDOS/PCDOS the only reason I wrote Basic was for money from customers who HAD to have the code in Basic.

I did have MTBasic on an XT, MT being for Multi-Tasking. It worked at all and was interesting but still it was Basically-limited.
Nick Gammon on multitasking Arduinos:
1) http://gammon.com.au/blink
2) http://gammon.com.au/serial
3) http://gammon.com.au/interrupts

Henry_Best

I learnt to program in Sinclair BASIC (on the Spectrum). I soon realised that it couldn't do what I wanted, so taught myself (Z80) Assembler. The only time I've used BASIC since then was to use VBA (Visual Basic for Applications) to write Macros to get Excel to transfer data to Word for a program at my work. I might use VBA again, but not BASIC.

Robin2

It is fit for people who don't know better. How many people do you know who choose Basic when they know a better language?
If you read carefully I was referring to Visual Basic and not to Basic in its most basic form.

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

ardly

I can't get my Whitespace programs to compile. What am I doing wrong??
Have you tried using the Whitelips IDE?
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored" - Aldous Huxley

Robin2

I can't get my Whitespace programs to compile. What am I doing wrong??
Sorry - I missed this earlier. I got mine to work when I added
Code: [Select]
#include <bleac.h>

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

Henry_Best

Sorry - I missed this earlier. I got mine to work when I added
Code: [Select]
#include <bleac.h>
Chlor.ino bleac.h tabs?

Robin2

Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

ChrisTenone

Wubba lubba dub dub!

msssltd

#24
Jan 25, 2018, 10:55 am Last Edit: Jan 25, 2018, 10:57 am by msssltd
It is fit for people who don't know better. How many people do you know who choose Basic when they know a better language?
You would need to define, "better."  Programming languages are a tool.  The 'best' language is the one that best fits the requirements.

Quote
If the only others you know are RPG and Cobol then sure, Basic is just great!
Elitest claptrap.  If I want to quickly knock up an interface for a SQL backend, I'm probably going to use BASIC.  If I want a bespoke UI for a SCPI control interface, I am probably going to use BASIC.  If I need to test a plain text network protocol (mail servers, DNS etc), I'm probably going to use BASIC.  I've even rescued a couple projects by starting again in BASIC, after some snob of a developer decided it was below them and blew the budget.
 
For any number high level, limited scope tasks, where BASIC or some BASIC like language, is a better choice than the alternatives.  You can of course find lots of scenarios where BASIC would be a really poor choice. 

Robin2

For any number high level, limited scope tasks, where BASIC or some BASIC like language, is a better choice than the alternatives. 
Well said.

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

GoForSmoke

The Basics you use are changed and enhanced into something else, admit it.
Nick Gammon on multitasking Arduinos:
1) http://gammon.com.au/blink
2) http://gammon.com.au/serial
3) http://gammon.com.au/interrupts

Robin2

The Basics you use are changed and enhanced into something else, admit it.
I was making that point way back in Reply #9

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

msssltd

The Basics you use are changed and enhanced into something else, admit it.
Course they have.  So have the computers and operating systems and the other development languages I use.  The English language has changed too.  BASICs have developed alongside everything else. 

Trying to separate VB, VBA, ASP, WSH, Xojo, Pure whatever, from the CBM and Apple BASIC I was writing 30 years ago...It's farcical.  Like the scene in Life of Brian - What have the Romans done for us.







GoForSmoke

#29
Jan 26, 2018, 05:00 am Last Edit: Jan 26, 2018, 05:00 am by GoForSmoke
Well this elitist wrote basic for money and at times not from 1980 clear to 1999 counting support for work earlier started. The last basic I used was Power Basic. I didn't get paid to write C until 1992 and that was C++ which is C enhanced to something else.

I learned forth in 83-84 and got work writing forth in 88-89. The work went fast, the system and apps were solid. Properly used, forth is very easy to write right from the start just on how forth words are defined. Forth is OOP when it's done right.

If some people tried and failed to implement what they didn't understand so well, that is hardly judgement on the what.

The basic I know and loath has nothing like C structures. I had to code it like that and get around basic itself to do what I wanted. Better to me languages supported what I wanted right down to the fundamental ways they worked as opposed to using support features added-on.

Heck, I don't like Pascal either. To me it's more than a little 'retentive' in a strait-jacket sort of way. Funny thing is that Nick Wirth wrote in Byte that Pascal should be thrown out for Modula 2. He wrote that if you want to get a program right, you write it twice and throw the first one away and that Pascal was his first effort, Modula addressed what he saw as flaws in Pascal though I can't say that my dislikes are his, for all I know Modula may be even more rigid than Pascal.
Nick Gammon on multitasking Arduinos:
1) http://gammon.com.au/blink
2) http://gammon.com.au/serial
3) http://gammon.com.au/interrupts

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