Arduino Forum

Community => Bar Sport => Topic started by: knuckles on Dec 14, 2012, 10:33 pm

Title: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: knuckles on Dec 14, 2012, 10:33 pm
just wondering if i should invest some time in this as the emulator looks good and its free too.
any comments welcome .
pros and cons .
thanx
Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: dhenry on Dec 15, 2012, 12:06 am
If it is a hobby, the weirder / more esoteric, the better. And BASCOM fits the bill there;

If you ever intend to make a living out of this, C is the only way.
Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: simplex on Dec 15, 2012, 08:36 am
BASCOM AVR is superior to Arduino IDE. Bascom is simpler and much more flexible. In fact, Bascom is the language used by the majority of hobbyists.

C is more for professionals.

Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: simplex on Dec 15, 2012, 09:38 am
Regarding Bascom, there can be a disadvantage. You can not perform "complicated" math on a single line.
You can not have something like:
a=b*(c+d)
Such an operation have to be decomposed in two lines (parts):
a=c+d
a=a*b
which looks somehow ugly and unfriendly.

Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: bperrybap on Dec 16, 2012, 04:43 am

BASCOM AVR is superior to Arduino IDE. Bascom is simpler and much more flexible. In fact, Bascom is the language used by the majority of hobbyists.

Pretty bold statements.
I think looking at google trends is a good indication about somethings popularity or relevance.
Here is BASCOM vs Arduino:
http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=bascom%2C%20Arduino&cmpt=q (http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=bascom%2C%20Arduino&cmpt=q)
World wide Google searches for BASCOM (not just BASCOM AVR) is waining while searches for Arduino is
still climbing quite rapidly.
It is very interesting to see a few BASCOM hotspots: Iran, Poland, and Indonesia
The rest of the world seems more interested in Arduino.
And even in those hot spots, the only one that is still higher than Arduino is Iran
and even there, the search activity is declining almost to match Arduino searches.

While not exactly an indicator about what hobbyists are using for development in in their projects,
clearly there is WAY more interest in Arduino than BASCOM.

Also, my concern for BASCOM is that it isn't free and doesn't have have the infinite
extensibility of C/C++
It also looks like they charge for additional functionality.
From their web page:
Quote
It is designed to run on W95/W98/NT/W2000/XP and Vista

That can be an absolute deal killer for some people, including myself.
(I don't do Windows)

If the Arduino IDE starts to become limiting, one can convert over to Makefiles or use some other
IDE on top of Makefiles and leave the Arduino IDE behind.
Then things like source level debugging using gdb becomes much easier when not use the Arduino IDE.
If Arduino starts to feel cramped it too can be left behind.
If using Windows, Atmel has their GUI IDE AVR studio.
The nice thing about staying with C/C++ and the AVR gnu tool set, is that it easy
to swap out the upper level development tools for a new set of tools and
not have to change the underlying AVR source code or programming language.

--- bill
Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: simplex on Dec 16, 2012, 07:13 am
1) Arduino IDE and Arduino Uno (or other boards) are good for beginners because you can quickly get familiar with AVR chips, you can blink your first LED in 30-60 minutes from the moment when you get the Arduino Uno board. Apart from that, there is no other serious advantage.

2) Arduino IDE is quite inflexible. It is designed to work well with the Arduino boards it has in its list. If you want to use Arduino IDE for stand alone AVRs you run quickly into huge complications and the entire programming process starts to look more like hacking than serious work.

3) Another problem with Arduino IDE is that it does not have a debugger, it does not have a simulator. You can not run your programs step by step to find errors.

4) The hex file size generated by Arduino IDE is also a problem. A source code that just blink a LED, once compiled, generates a hex file greater than 1 Kbyte. Same code in Bascom is below 250 bytes and in IAR below 100 bytes.
Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: kd7eir on Dec 16, 2012, 07:40 am

1) Arduino IDE and Arduino Uno (or other boards) are good for beginners because you can quickly get familiar with AVR chips, you can blink your first LED in 30-60 minutes from the moment when you get the Arduino Uno board. Apart from that, there is no other serious advantage.

So, are you saying that Arduino Uno and Arduino IDE are only good for blinking LED's?

2) Arduino IDE is quite inflexible. It is designed to work well with the Arduino boards it has in its list. If you want to use Arduino IDE for stand alone AVRs you run quickly into huge complications and the entire programming process starts to look more like hacking than serious work.

Arduino IDE was DESIGNED for Arduino boards.  If you want to work with something else, get a development environment designed for that product.  It is, however, rather trivial to use the Arduino IDE along with an external programmer to program standalone AVR chips.

3) Another problem with Arduino IDE is that it does not have a debugger, it does not have a simulator. You can not run your programs step by step to find errors.

Again, the Arduino IDE was never intended to provide debugging or simulation capabilities, so to claim that the lack of them is a problem with the Arduino IDE is disingenuous.

4) The hex file size generated by Arduino IDE is also a problem. A source code that just blink a LED, once compiled, generates a hex file greater than 1 Kbyte. Same code in Bascom is below 250 bytes and in IAR below 100 bytes.

Virtually ANY development environment can give better compiled size if you are willing to PAY for such optimization.  Arduino IDE is FREE, so once again complaining that it is not the most optimized compiler is disingenuous.   
Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: retrolefty on Dec 16, 2012, 08:08 am
Quote
4) The hex file size generated by Arduino IDE is also a problem. A source code that just blink a LED, once compiled, generates a hex file greater than 1 Kbyte. Same code in Bascom is below 250 bytes and in IAR below 100 bytes.


Apples and oranges. Is your Bascom 'same code' initiating and controlling a timer to support a millis() and microSecond() freerunning timer?

Basic was a good way to learn getting started with programming, but soon there is a need to grow up, join the real world and work for a living.  ;)

Lefty
Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: simplex on Dec 16, 2012, 08:14 am
Quote
Arduino IDE was never intended to provide debugging or simulation capabilities, so to claim that the lack of them is a problem with the Arduino IDE

Yes, this is a big problem which decreases substantially the productivity of programmers.

Arduino IDE was not designed with debugging and simulation capabilities because it was hard to add such facilities. Arduino IDE is a toy.
Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: bperrybap on Dec 16, 2012, 08:24 am

Quote
4) The hex file size generated by Arduino IDE is also a problem. A source code that just blink a LED, once compiled, generates a hex file greater than 1 Kbyte. Same code in Bascom is below 250 bytes and in IAR below 100 bytes.


Apples and oranges. Is your Bascom 'same code' initiating and controlling a timer to support a millis() and microSecond() freerunning timer?

I would say it really is an "apples" and "apples" comparison.
The user's code is merely blinking an LED. That functionality is identical.
The user doesn't care what has to happen behind the scenes or
how that gets implemented under the hood to make that happen.
He just wants to blink an led.

The Arduino core code is horribly inefficient at manipulating pins and drags in a tremendous amount of
code to handle a timer interrupt , and also includes a few dead-wood routines that are never called.
What we are seeing is the overhead of using the Arduino environment vs some other environment
to get the same job done.
So it is a true apples to apples comparison.
In this case Arduino (and to some extent wiring and its APIs ) happens to suck at code efficiency for
this simple application.

My guess is that there are other applications where Arduino can make things much easier and probably much
smaller. I'd bet that talking to a GLCD will be much more efficient with an Arduino library than
with BASCOM where you have to implement things by calling the built in functions vs being
able to twiddle things directly like you can in C.

--- bill
Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: westfw on Dec 16, 2012, 08:28 am
Quote
just wondering if i should invest some time in this as the emulator looks good and its free too.


Where did you get the idea that it's "free" ?

I'm sure BASCOM is a fine compiler, if you like BASIC and don't mind being stuck on windows.  The Arduino forums are probably not a great place to talk about it, unless you have something like a tutorial on how to load BASCOM applications onto Arduino hardware.

I'd guess that being proficient in BASCOM AVR is about as useful on your resume as being proficient in Arduino.  Neither one is particularly sought after in the "real" technical market (whatever that means.)  Either one could be a great stepping stone to more desirable skills.
Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: simplex on Dec 16, 2012, 08:39 am

I think looking at google trends is a good indication about somethings popularity or relevance.
Here is BASCOM vs Arduino:
http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=bascom%2C%20Arduino&cmpt=q (http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=bascom%2C%20Arduino&cmpt=q)
World wide Google searches for BASCOM (not just BASCOM AVR) is waining while searches for Arduino is still climbing quite rapidly.


You compare Bascom, a software tool, an IDE, with Arduino which is an IDE and also a series of boards.

A more fair comparison would be:
Bascom AVR
Arduino IDE
see: http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=Bascom%20AVR%2C%20Arduino%20IDE&cmpt=q

The interest in "Arduino IDE" has increased in the last four years and now in December 2012 it is roughly the same as in "Bascom AVR". We have to wait and see what happens in the future.
Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: kd7eir on Dec 16, 2012, 07:20 pm
Try looking at more than just the graph.  Bascom AVR is popular in places like Iran - which has a search volume index of 100 for Bascom AVR and 0 for Arduino IDE, and BASCOM AVR has a  search volume index of 1 in the US. Whereas Arduino IDE has a search volume index of 60 in the United States and 0 in Iran.

I would say that the Google Trends would indicate that Bascom AVR is the clear winner over Arduino IDE if your goal is to be with the "cool kids" in Iran.

More to the point, comparing a FREE IDE with a COMMERCIAL IDE is pure folly.

Let's compare the two in some real world applications that Arduino is being used in today.  Let's see your Bascom AVR code to control a UAV.   Let's see your Bascom AVR code to control all the timers and relays for a hydroponic system or a salt water aquarium.  Let's see your Bascom AVR code to control a 8*8*8 LED cube.

I'll be waiting for ANYONE to show me that Bascom AVR can do that in less space.
Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: dhenry on Dec 16, 2012, 07:29 pm
Quote
Bascom AVR can do that in less space.


Space is probably one of many factors in comparing compilers / development environment, hardly the only factor.

I would be reasonably confident in saying that arduino is unlikely to win in a space-only game vs. other compilers (let's limit ourselves to C for now). What arduino excels is to get people with little experience to produce results in a short period of time (aka level the learning curve).

With their libraries, other compilers (bascom for example) do the same. So that may be a more interesting comparison.
Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: simplex on Dec 17, 2012, 03:17 am

Bascom AVR is popular in places like Iran

Those Google trends go to nowhere.
From this trend:
http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=CodeVision%2C%20Arduino%20IDE%2C%20Bascom%20AVR%2C%20AVR%20Studio%2C%20IAR%20AVR&geo=US&cmpt=q
I can quickly draw the conclusion that Arduino IDE is of interest only in California and New York. The interest is zero in the rest of US.
The interest in AVR Studio is high in at least ten US states including California and New York.

The interest in Arduino IDE is high in Japan, Italy, Germany, California and New York and zero in rest.
see: http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=CodeVision%2C%20Arduino%20IDE%2C%20Bascom%20AVR%2C%20AVR%20Studio%2C%20IAR%20AVR&cmpt=q

Maybe there are distributors there,  stores from where you can buy directly Arduino boards and having a board you are obliged to use Arduino IDE.
Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: simplex on Dec 17, 2012, 03:41 am
Quote
Let's see your Bascom AVR code to control a UAV.   Let's see your Bascom AVR code to control all the timers and relays for a hydroponic system or a salt water aquarium.  Let's see your Bascom AVR code to control a 8*8*8 LED cube.

You can do a lot of things in Bascom.
Take a look at this list of projects: http://www.mcselec.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=7&id=79&Itemid=57&limit=50&limitstart=0
see: "173 - Tricopter" - UAV
Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: westfw on Dec 17, 2012, 05:10 am
Quote
A more fair comparison would be: Bascom AVR vs Arduino IDE

Except that people don't usually SAY "Arduino IDE."  And since Arduino is a well-chosen (by chance?) name for WWW use, hardly anyone ever needs to type "Arduino IDE" in a search engine to differentiate it.

I think that when you can drastically change the google trends results by going from "Arduino" to "Arduino IDE" to "Arduino compiler" (or "Bascom IDE"), then you have a topic that google trends is not very good for evaluating.  (this applies to the Bascom side as well.  "Bascom AVR compiler" has practically NO usage...)
Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: simplex on Dec 17, 2012, 06:08 am
The search volume for "arduino" keyword alone is puzzling.
It is much more looked for than "atmega" and sensible more searched than "multimeter" or "transistor".

arduino - 94
atmega - 2
attiny - 1
multimeter - 27
transistor - 33

see: http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=arduino%2C%20atmega%2C%20attiny%2C%20multimeter%2C%20transistor&geo=US&cmpt=q

It is self evident that the ones that look for "arduino" are not interested at all in atmel AVR microcontrollers.
Strange!
Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: westfw on Dec 17, 2012, 08:20 am
Quote
the ones that look for "arduino" are not interested at all in atmel AVR microcontrollers.
Strange!

Nah.   "Obvious" is more like it.  Arduino is aimed at people who don't know what an "AVR microcontroller" is, and don't particularly want to.

Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: rvasque on Dec 17, 2012, 09:18 am
Ahhhh... this brings back memories...
Microsoft C vs. Borland C.
PBasic vs. QuickBasic
Visicalc vs Lotus 123
:smiley-mr-green:

I picked Arduino because of the easier learning curve, and the fact that it's available on OSX.
Not to mention a good number of libraries available for it.
And any C/C++ code out there, can be easily adapted for it.
Object oriented programming is also a big plus.

My other option was going AVRStudio... but that means developing on a PC/Windows - which I left years ago when I switched to OSX.

Bascom AVR ... never heard of it until just now.

@simplex: I don't know what your agenda is. But if your goal is to increase awareness of Bascom AVR, you're doing it in the wrong forum and in the wrong way. You're trying to "lift up" Bascom's profile by putting down Arduino.  Aaah ahhh... not cool. 

Arduino is more searched upon because it is marketed well.... MARKETING!!!  And I think this is where Bascom is very poor at. Like what I said, never heard of Bascom until now... while I first dabbled in Arduino back in '09. Not to mention there are lots of 3rd party companies that support, make shields for it, make libraries for Arduino, etc.... Bascom? Never heard of it, never searched for it, never googled for it... until now. Because you seem so fanatic and a rah-rah cheerleader for it. 

After some quick googling, it seems Bascom is based/founded/developed in Syria? Maybe that would explain why it's more popular in that area of the world?

Arduino was developed in Italy... I think Americans will have more affinity for Italy (and all things Italian) than Syria.

Maybe if Bascom did a better job of marketing, and attracting developers and hardware makers, it will gain more users and fans. -- but the way you're marketing Bascom on this Arduino forum (and slinging mud at Arduino) is improper and not cool.
Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: simplex on Dec 17, 2012, 04:56 pm

Ahhhh... this brings back memories...
Microsoft C vs. Borland C.
PBasic vs. QuickBasic
Visicalc vs Lotus 123
:smiley-mr-green:

If you have such memories it means you are no longer young. You are 40+ at least, but likely more.
It is highly unlikely you a interested in playing with "arduino" which is a toy for kids.
Quote
I picked Arduino because of the easier learning curve, and the fact that it's available on OSX.
Not to mention a good number of libraries available for it.
And any C/C++ code out there, can be easily adapted for it.
Object oriented programming is also a big plus.

Also this text you wrote sounds as standard advertising, pure publicity. It is self evident you are interested in selling not working with "arduino".
Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: retrolefty on Dec 17, 2012, 05:14 pm
Simplex, your shtick is getting rather old and tiresome. We get your a fanboy for Bascom AVR and you feel it's the greatest software platform every made for AVR chips. And that the Arduino IDE is brain dead and not worth your time of day. So now that you have made you point of view well known here, why keep beating the same drum over and over? We need to hear different tunes from you or consider just moving on to the next forum to spread your wisdom. May I suggest the AVR section of the AVRfreaks website?

http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewforum&f=3&sid=7df154c3426fc0f09a8432878e8cef94

Lefty
Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: pico on Dec 17, 2012, 05:22 pm

May I suggest the AVR section of the AVRfreaks website?

http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewforum&f=3&sid=7df154c3426fc0f09a8432878e8cef94

Lefty


Now that's just mean.

I remember reading on an automotive website an annoying kid kept asking stupid questions, not listening or even reading the advice being given, and finally one guy suggested to him that to test his ignition he should put his tongue on a sparkplug while someone cranked the engine.

I thought that was the cruellest thing I'd ever come across on the Internet. Until now.
 
Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: simplex on Dec 17, 2012, 05:35 pm

May I suggest the AVR section of the AVRfreaks website?
http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewforum&f=3&sid=7df154c3426fc0f09a8432878e8cef94

That forum is moderated by a guy, Dean Camera, who works for Atmel in Trondheim, Norway. (still hope it is not you).
Take a look here for more information: http://www.fourwalledcubicle.com/AboutMe.php
Most of the messages on avrfreaks are written by him under various names (a list can be provided at request). If I go there I will just argue with him hiding behind 10 names. It is useless.
Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: rvasque on Dec 17, 2012, 05:54 pm
Quote
Also this text you wrote sounds as standard advertising, pure publicity.

That's your best comback?


No, I don't make my living on Arduino, or selling Arduino, or selling shields or whatever.
I don't have any financial gain with regards to how Arduino performs.
What I said is the truth.... and the truth hurts when Bascom can't deliver on most of these points.

I picked Arduino because of the easier learning curve, and the fact that it's available on OSX.
Is Bascom also available for OSX?   
or do you consider OSX also a "toy" ?

Not to mention a good number of libraries available for it.
Yup. Show me on github libraries for Bascom.
I did a search on github and the Bascom results are pathetic.
What libraries/subroutines are available for Bascom?


And any C/C++ code out there, can be easily adapted for it.
Object oriented programming is also a big plus.

Pffft.... need I say more. It's the truth. BASIC language will never be C++.

I learned BASIC decades ago... 8th grade.
BASIC is *great* for beginners just starting to learn programming.
B.A.S.I.C. - Beginner's All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code
So you saying Arduino (C++ based) is a toy, while the Bascom (Basic based) isn't, is laughable. It's L to the O.L.


Marketing and support
What other companies makes products/libraries for Bascom?
Marketing is non-existent....
except you, the micro-skirt wearing cheerleader -- but you're giving Bascom a bad reputation.

I have no loyalties to the Arduino IDE.
If Bascom is truly better, how can you convince me, in a rational way, to jump-ship and go for the Bascom IDE.
Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: pico on Dec 17, 2012, 06:03 pm

Most of the messages on avrfreaks are written by him under various names (a list can be provided at request).


Please provide the list of the various names Dean uses to write all the avrfreaks messages!

This is a request.

Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: kf2qd on Dec 17, 2012, 06:09 pm

And any C/C++ code out there, can be easily adapted for it.
Object oriented programming is also a big plus.

Pffft.... need I say more. It's the truth. BASIC language will never be C++.

I learned BASIC decades ago... 8th grade.
BASIC is *great* for beginners just starting to learn programming.
B.A.S.I.C. - Beginner's All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code
So you saying Arduino (C++ based) is a toy, while the Bascom (Basic based) isn't, is laughable. It's L to the O.L.


Unfortunately these arguments under this heading are nothing more than Bascom isn't any good because its not C. Ford isn't any good because its not Chevy. Chinese ain't no good because its not American...

BASIC is a vey useful and powerful language that has as its parents CoBOL and ForTran. Bet you didn't know that. It was developed for calculations and output. C was developed for system development. For things like compilers and operating systems. C++ was developed to make C do the things that BASIC does.

Poorly written code in BASIC and poorly written code in C are both useless when it comes time to maintain them. Some C programmers seems to take pride in the fact they can write unreadable code. Some BASIC programmers need some training and they can write clean code.

One language is hardly better than the other. Each has benefits and liabilities. I find it much harder to remember the C syntax - and some of it seems to have been written for its terseness and nothing else...  The same aguments are also out there for Visual BASIC - VB6 vs. .NET. You are aguing over things that are purely opinion. WHile you are entitled to your opinion, lets admit that it is purely opinion and not use opinion as the basis for declaring the other guys brand as inferior.

Oh - It's not C is not a valid reason for saying another language is crap. ( might even be a benefit...)
Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: retrolefty on Dec 17, 2012, 06:10 pm
Gentleman. we are now just continuing to feed the troll. Simplex did not come here to learn anything new about the Arduino platform or from it's users. He has made his point of view clear and is not going to change his POV regardless of what any of us have to say about Bascom AVR or Arduino. So what is the point of responding to his further posts? Ignore him and he will soon move on I suspect.

Lefty
Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: rvasque on Dec 17, 2012, 06:12 pm
I misspoke.
I meant -
"Basic language will never be Object Oriented (like C++)"

carry on...
Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: simplex on Dec 17, 2012, 06:17 pm
Dean Camera writes on avrfreaks forum using the following important names:
abcminiuser, Kartman, clawson, js, JohanEkdahl, kk6gm, alexan_e, theusch
Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: pico on Dec 17, 2012, 06:21 pm

Ignore him and he will soon move on I suspect.


Well, I still want that list!

Also, how do we know he's not *actually* Alex Jones, using a pseudonym?

In any case, I find this thread quite fascinating. Are there *really* people still programming in BASIC in this day and age? It's like banging rocks together to make a fire.

The whole thread is so bizarre, it is quite compelling, in a morbid sort of way...
Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: pico on Dec 17, 2012, 06:24 pm

Dean Camera writes on avrfreaks forum using the following important names:
abcminiuser


This is uncontroversial. It's well known that "abcminiuser" is Dean Camera's AVRFreaks handle.

Quote

, Kartman, clawson, js, JohanEkdahl, kk6gm, alexan_e, theusch


OTOH, what *possible* evidence do you have for this?

Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: simplex on Dec 17, 2012, 06:27 pm
Also "pico" in Dean Camera on arduino forum!
Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: retrolefty on Dec 17, 2012, 06:31 pm


Ignore him and he will soon move on I suspect.


Well, I still want that list!

Why, it's a figment of his imagination, let the troll go his way.

Also, how do we know he's not *actually* Alex Jones, using a pseudonym?

We know nothing about him, other then his POV on Bascom AVR and the Arduino platform.

In any case, I find this thread quite fascinating. Are there *really* people still programming in BASIC in this day and age? It's like banging rocks together to make a fire.

Sure, there are many people who still personally like to use the Basic language and that is as it should be. There is a very active product/platform/user's forum for the Picaxe chips and they do fun and impressive stuff with those chips just as the arduino users do. No reason to look down on them or the Basic language.

The whole thread is so bizarre, it is quite compelling, in a morbid sort of way...

That is the mark of a successful troll performing his art form.

Lefty

Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: pico on Dec 17, 2012, 06:33 pm
OK, I'm discovered!

But I can prove *you* are Alex Jones!

Simplex is an obvious anagram of 'LEX IS PM

--an obvious reference to Alex's well-known political ambitions in the UK.

Also, if you play "Simplex" backwards on a 33 1/3 vinyl LP it says "I am Alex".

How do explain that, eh Alex?


Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: pico on Dec 17, 2012, 06:37 pm

There is a very active product/platform/user's forum for the Picaxe chips and they do fun and impressive stuff with those chips just as the arduino users do. No reason to look down on them or the Basic language.


Well, I'm sure there are people out there doing fun and impressive stuff banging rocks together, too. But it's still banging rocks together.
Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: simplex on Dec 17, 2012, 06:38 pm
Dean Camera's (avrfreaks forum moderator) names used on arduino forum:

pico, retrolefty
Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: rvasque on Dec 17, 2012, 07:11 pm
Quote
BASIC is a vey useful and powerful language that has as its parents CoBOL and ForTran. Bet you didn't know that. It was developed for calculations and output.

I know all that.
Basic is easy, that's why it's the first language taught in school back in the days of Apple II.
Later, they tried to clean it up by removing line numbers, and implementing subroutines/function but it's still a hot mess.
Basic had it's heyday in computing history, but it's time to move on.

I know Fortran - Formula Translation - did some programming on that in CP/M on Apple II.
I know Cobol too - that god awful language. Programmed IBM mainframes in CICS/COBOL/MVS to write reports, compute your daily interest and account balances. Also did bill payment systems, so you can pay your bills directly via the ATM... glue in the backend is that freaking Cobol language. Some banks are very resistant and afraid of change even in the early 90s... still using Cobol. Working in banking IT will suck the life out of your soul. Stay away. :)
Title: Re: any fans of the Bascom AVR ?
Post by: AWOL on Dec 17, 2012, 10:50 pm
Willy-waving and nay-saying.
Nothing to see here.
Thread locked.