Arduino Forum

Community => Bar Sport => Topic started by: CrossRoads on Jan 30, 2013, 04:09 am

Title: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: CrossRoads on Jan 30, 2013, 04:09 am
Look at this - USPS just raised rates for flat rate shipping of small boxes by $7!
Was $16.95, now $23.95.

http://ircalc.usps.com/MailServices.aspx?country=10150&m=13&p=0&o=1&mt=13

And yet iteadstudio can send me a set of cards via registered US Airmail for $8.

Gonna have to see if small padded envelopes are any cheaper ...
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: rvasque on Jan 30, 2013, 07:43 am
WTF USPS!   
Not even an advance warning. 40% to 54% increase!

BTW, Thanks Crossroads for this headsup. I need to raise my shipping rates ASAP!
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: teckel on Jan 30, 2013, 07:53 am

Look at this - USPS just raised rates for flat rate shipping of small boxes by $7!
Was $16.95, now $23.95.

http://ircalc.usps.com/MailServices.aspx?country=10150&m=13&p=0&o=1&mt=13

And yet iteadstudio can send me a set of cards via registered US Airmail for $8.

Gonna have to see if small padded envelopes are any cheaper ...


We should privatize the post office and normalize the salaries of the lazy employees.  We have MANY shipping options now, there's no need for a government postal service.  I'm sure Ron Paul would agree.

Tim
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: rvasque on Jan 30, 2013, 07:58 am
Their pension costs are out of control. That's what's killing them.

I am just so mad about this. I didn't expect increases will be this large for International shipping. 40 to 50+%%% WTF. This will affect my International sales. FUUUCCCKK!!!
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: teckel on Jan 30, 2013, 08:15 am

Their pension costs are out of control. That's what's killing them.


Exactly!  Eventually, everyone will vote conservative, once they're no longer ignorant.

Just went to the PO today.  SLOW, FAT, LAZY... And probably make twice I do, with a pension when I get ZERO pension.  Yet, they work for ME?  Insanity!  You liberals out there can BITE ME! ;-)

Tim
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: dhenry on Jan 30, 2013, 01:16 pm
Quote
Eventually, everyone will vote conservative, once they're no longer ignorant.


One way to defeat an unsustainable scheme is to expand it as fast as possible, so it collapses quickly.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: wizdum on Jan 30, 2013, 05:06 pm
#@$!, I have two ready-to-ship international orders. There goes my margin.

Also, I see the propaganda machines are working in full force. "Something bad happened, quick, find a way to blame it on the other guys!"

The key is misdirection, Stanley.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: JChristensen on Jan 30, 2013, 06:29 pm
This is great news, undoubtedly we'll all be getting 40% increases too!  Woohoo! :smiley-yell:
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: liuzengqiang on Jan 30, 2013, 11:27 pm
I'm not aware of the pension issue but definitely don't see my local PO workers lazy. They face a long line of customers and always handle business professionally. I just wish they open for more hours on Saturdays. During the middle of a business day, that joint is filled with people (lots seem to be small business shippers).

Guys/gals in USA, do you know about the USPS regional rate boxes? Post offices don't always carry them but you can order them at USPS.com free of charge and free shipping. Isn't that what's great about USPS, free priority/express supplies? Regional rate box rate is cheaper especially for me since I'm in the middle (longitude, not latitude). Purchase postage on USPS.com for regional rate box. I can ship a decent amount of stuff in regional rate box A for $5+ while the flat rate small box can only fit a couple of tooth picks. I hate how the small box closes too.

For international shipping, done that a lot. Hate the rates. No way to insure except for express mail at like $30 a pop. I'm not made of money.

CrossRoads, get a box of 250 bubble mailers from the place you got the really useful boxes. It's the cheapest I can find but you will need some extra wide tape.

http://www.officedepot.com/catalog/search.do?Ntt=bubble+mailer+pack+of+250

I think I have the 6*10. Use the officedepot coupon to get a deal. PM me if you can't find any coupon. I also bought a digital scale off ebay so I know exactly how much padding I can add to not get to the next ounce.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: liuzengqiang on Jan 31, 2013, 12:48 am
Updates: Shipped a 1 oz envelop to New Zealand, $6.55 Wasnt this expnsive before.
Priority small box is $6, not $7. Does the rate depend on region?
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: wayneft on Jan 31, 2013, 01:44 am
@CrossRoads
If you're shipping a lot of items Internationally I recommend dumping the International Priority option.  International Priority has been nothing but a head ache to me as the package is not insured, the tracking information is not valid once the package leaves the US and it's not really any faster than First Class International.  I would switch to something like Stamps.com and send everything International First Class Mail and insure the package.  Through the Post Office, you can't insure International First Class but through Stamps.com you can.  The cost is based off item price and is usually only a few bucks.  So you can now ship something overseas, insured for usually around 7 bucks. 
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: CrossRoads on Jan 31, 2013, 02:13 am
Thanks Wayne, will look into stamps.com
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: rvasque on Jan 31, 2013, 02:57 am
I have to disagree though on the Priority shipping for INTL customers. To me, they're more reliable than First Class mail. I'd pick Priority Mail over First Class.

The tracking # is helpful, and while it doesn't offer detailed tracking once it leaves the country, it can still be traced if it got lost or delayed.  Just need to call USPS and they''ll start a trace/conduct an investigation/request status from the receiving country if it's been delayed for more than 10 days and recipient still hasn't received it. .... and more likely the package will be returned to you if it's undeliverable!

If after a trace, USPS still can't find the package and your package in insured, you get a check $$$ from USPS (after filing a claim).

First Class Mail is "hope to god it doesn't get lost" shipping. If you're just shipping something worth a few dollars, it may be worth the risk but when I'm shipping anywhere from $300 to $1000 worth of stuff out the country, I just couldn't take that risk.

I understand USPS needs to raise rates. But my beef with this is the amount of increase ... almost 60% for Flat Rate Priority Small package. That's nuts.

@Crossroads. I use Endicia.com, you may want to check them out also. It runs natively on OSX too.

Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: rvasque on Jan 31, 2013, 03:04 am
Here you go.... in black and white.

Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: wayneft on Jan 31, 2013, 03:05 am
You're partially correct.  The USPS only offers trace and insurance options on Medium Flat Rate and up boxes.  Neither is offered on the Small Flat Rate Box/Envelope (I found this out the hard way after one went missing and I called the main PO and went to my local).  Plus when you use Stamps.com (Endicia also I'm sure) you'll get free delivery confirmation tracking on the package while it's in the US just as you would with the Small Flat Rate box.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: rvasque on Jan 31, 2013, 03:17 am
They can still conduct a trace for Small Flat rate boxes... and I have SFR boxes return to me when they can't deliver it to the recipient. With First Class packages, I think it just goes to the other country's dead mail section and I don't ever see it back again.

That's been my experience.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: wayneft on Jan 31, 2013, 03:32 am
I'm not sure how you were able to do a trace on an Small Flat Rate (the only way possible is if you fill out the wrong customs form).  Basically if your tracking number starts with LJ or LC (SFR and First Class International use the same customs form) then it's not an actual tracking number but instead a Customs form number which is not scanned anymore once it leaves US soil.  If your tracking number starts with CP or CJ then you're using a different customs form designed for Medium Flat and up (along with weight based flat rate) and these numbers will continue to track through to the destination country and also provide a trace option.  Not trying to argue or anything but I've been burned by this a couple of times already and I don't want to see anyone else fall into the same trap.  I wish the PO did a better job advertising the restrictions with SFR but you have to really look at the fine print on their website to see it.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: rvasque on Jan 31, 2013, 04:05 am
No, not trying to start anything here :)

Happens rarely, maybe 2-3x a year, a customer would fail to receive their package even after 4 weeks, so I call up USPS on the phone, asking them help in tracking the package. They'll give the usual answer... blah blah they don't track once it leaves the US, but I'll be insistent and then they'll ask me if I want to initiate or start a trace, they explained they'll ask the other country for information re: status of package. They said they'll send me a letter via postal mail of their findings, and what the receiving country said. 

Just like clockwork, within a few days my waiting customer will email me telling me they got the package. Coincidence? Maybe... or maybe the call from USPS made the other country's customs work faster? Who knows... I don't care at this point, my customer got the package.

Or after a few weeks, I'll get a mail from USPS saying they and the receiving country can't find the package, blah blah blah. So I consider it a loss. But after a month or two, I'll get the my package with a "Return to Sender/Undeliverable" stamp.  Either way, I'm happy. I got the contents of the package back and suffered no loss. (just wasted time).

UPS and Fedex for International shipping is another whole ball of wax. I rarely use them and avoid them as much as possible for International shipments.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: keeper63@cox.net on Jan 31, 2013, 05:57 am
What I don't understand is the whining about "let's privatize it all" - unless I selected the wrong options, comparing a flat rate box from USPS vs FedEx vs UPS, shipped internationally (I went with Phoenix, AZ to Tokyo, Japan) - USPS won hands down, being about a third of what the other two were. Now, I can see being upset with the hike on it's suddenness and being unannounced, but I would bet if the USPS was dismantled or privatized, the costs to ship a package would be greater - not less.

Finally, how much do you think it would cost to have a letter delivered to some areas of the country where it can only be helicoptered or otherwise brought in currently, which the USPS does routinely? Heck, they probably wouldn't deliver it at all - I guess those people in such remote areas can all just go ---- themselves, huh?

There's also this little matter:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_One_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Section_8:_Powers_of_Congress
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: Chagrin on Jan 31, 2013, 06:10 am

Their pension costs are out of control. That's what's killing them.


The USPS pays into the FERS (Federal Employee Retirement System) like all federal agencies and USPS employees will receive retirement benefits identical to all other federal employees (*some exceptions, of course). Unlike other federal agencies, however, they're being forced to pay in at a higher rate, or more generally they're being required to generate a surplus in their retirement fund because the OPM (Office of Personnel Management, which manages FERS) has determined that the USPS is at risk of collapsing.

I also agree with cr0sh; if you dismantle the USPS it will just be replaced by other services (FedEx, UPS, etc.) at a higher cost.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: dhenry on Jan 31, 2013, 02:07 pm
Quote
if you dismantle the USPS it will just be replaced by other services (FedEx, UPS, etc.) at a higher cost.


Cost is just one of many factors evaluated for delivery service. I for one don't mind paying more, if usps can provide certainty of service.

I guess that's why I don't use usps.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: wizdum on Jan 31, 2013, 03:30 pm
I haven't used anything but USPS, since shipping rates for small volume customers are insane with UPS/FedEx. A box that costs $5 shipping anywhere in the US, costs $35 with UPS and $40 with FedEx, and the shipping time is longer. International shipping for a medium box was $49 with USPS, it was $150 with UPS and $190 with FedEx. Unless there is some trick I am missing.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: liuzengqiang on Jan 31, 2013, 06:03 pm

I haven't used anything but USPS, since shipping rates for small volume customers are insane with UPS/FedEx. A box that costs $5 shipping anywhere in the US, costs $35 with UPS and $40 with FedEx, and the shipping time is longer. International shipping for a medium box was $49 with USPS, it was $150 with UPS and $190 with FedEx. Unless there is some trick I am missing.


Glad to see lots of us are doing our parts to spread out arduino stuff around the country and globe. I'm also doing USPS alone unless customers provide their shipping labels or account numbers for other carriers.

What I wish USPS would have online:
Customs form for international first class. Load my address automatically.
Domestic first class stamp purchase.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: CrossRoads on Jan 31, 2013, 06:21 pm
liudr,
USPS does have customs forms, with address book. My wife uses that feature a lot for my mailings.
Fills out forms, pre-pays, can even arrange for at-home pickup. If dropped at the actual Post Office, all they have to do is scan the barcode.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: liuzengqiang on Jan 31, 2013, 06:26 pm

liudr,
USPS does have customs forms, with address book. My wife uses that feature a lot for my mailings.
Fills out forms, pre-pays, can even arrange for at-home pickup. If dropped at the actual Post Office, all they have to do is scan the barcode.


Is it priority or international first class? I'm shipping first class and can't find electronic way to fill forms or pay.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: CrossRoads on Jan 31, 2013, 06:32 pm
Hmm, I don't know.  I'll have to ask her when I get home. Just shipped a couple things to Germany, that's how we found out rates went from $17 to $24.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: wizdum on Jan 31, 2013, 06:57 pm


liudr,
USPS does have customs forms, with address book. My wife uses that feature a lot for my mailings.
Fills out forms, pre-pays, can even arrange for at-home pickup. If dropped at the actual Post Office, all they have to do is scan the barcode.


Is it priority or international first class? I'm shipping first class and can't find electronic way to fill forms or pay.


I have filled out the customs forms online, but I always ship priority mail.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: Nishant_Sood on Jan 31, 2013, 07:22 pm
Experienced it while shopping @ SparkFun
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: JoeN on Jan 31, 2013, 07:46 pm

I would switch to something like Stamps.com and send everything International First Class Mail and insure the package.  Through the Post Office, you can't insure International First Class but through Stamps.com you can.  The cost is based off item price and is usually only a few bucks.  So you can now ship something overseas, insured for usually around 7 bucks. 


I have always wondered about the insurance thing and if it is a good deal for small businesses.  When you are shipping items less than a couple hundred bucks, does insurance make any damn sense in the long run, assuming you are sending at least a few hundred packages a year?  The insurance isn't there for the insurance company to lose money.  It works in their favor.  Wouldn't self-insurance work in your favor too?  Charge the customer 1% for "insurance".  Put it in a jar (either literally or figuratively).  Compare your losses to your insurance gains.  I bet it works in your favor.  You can certainly check it against past results of you track that data.  Insurance makes sense for low-probability large losses to spread that risk.  It doesn't usually make sense for relatively common but small losses.

P.S.  Don't take insurance in blackjack either.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: JoeN on Jan 31, 2013, 07:51 pm

I haven't used anything but USPS, since shipping rates for small volume customers are insane with UPS/FedEx. A box that costs $5 shipping anywhere in the US, costs $35 with UPS and $40 with FedEx, and the shipping time is longer. International shipping for a medium box was $49 with USPS, it was $150 with UPS and $190 with FedEx. Unless there is some trick I am missing.


Isn't that the truth, at least for domestic.   Here are rates from Digikey to where I am in Illinois.  First Class or Priority always takes 48 hours.  UPS and FedEx standard services takes 3-4 days and costs FOUR TIMES as much as first class and more than twice as much as priority mail.  A lot of my orders actually use the 8 oz shipping rate.  UPS and FedEx start making sense when the package gets heavy, but ICs are small and light.  A big assortment of resistors or caps might be a pound.

(http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=145804.0;attach=35100)

Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: rezahussain on Jan 31, 2013, 11:12 pm
so does anybody have some tips for mailing small electronics to countries outside the US?
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: JoeN on Jan 31, 2013, 11:16 pm

so does anybody have some tips for mailing small electronics to countries outside the US?


Yes, make sure to check that it's not ITAR restricted before you do otherwise you may go to FPMITAP.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: wizdum on Jan 31, 2013, 11:26 pm

so does anybody have some tips for mailing small electronics to countries outside the US?


USPS small flat rate boxes are like $15 to anywhere outside the US. Anything larger than that, and its cheaper to break it up into 5 smaller boxes.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: CrossRoads on Feb 01, 2013, 04:19 am
Quote
USPS small flat rate boxes are like $15 to anywhere outside the US.

Not anymore - that was the whole point of this thread.
The rate has gone from $15 to $17 and now has jumped to $24!
Perhaps small padded envelopes will work out to be cheaper.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: wizdum on Feb 01, 2013, 06:30 am

Quote
USPS small flat rate boxes are like $15 to anywhere outside the US.

Not anymore - that was the whole point of this thread.
The rate has gone from $15 to $17 and now has jumped to $24!
Perhaps small padded envelopes will work out to be cheaper.


I thought they had gone from $10 to $15, gah.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: Constantin on Feb 01, 2013, 08:11 pm
Just shipped a 2lb 11oz 4"x4"x5" package domestically - $11.49. Perhaps my FedEx shipping account (with employer discount) would have been cheaper but I doubt by much. My guess is that the big shippers (i.e. the Amazons of the world) are getting subsidized by us small fry.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: liuzengqiang on Feb 01, 2013, 08:18 pm

Just shipped a 2lb 11oz 4"x4"x5" package domestically - $11.49. Perhaps my FedEx shipping account (with employer discount) would have been cheaper but I doubt by much. My guess is that the big shippers (i.e. the Amazons of the world) are getting subsidized by us small fry.


Hey, check out priority regional rate box A:

https://www.usps.com/ship/priority-mail-regional-rate.htm

I would have spent the same money you did with the same box except I'll be able to afford $500 insurance with the money saved.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: CrossRoads on Feb 01, 2013, 08:20 pm
Internal US not too bad for small flat rate boxes - only jumped from $5.35 to $5.80.
International is the killer. Small flat rate box, DVD size box, padded envelope - all shown online as $23.95 to Germany, UK, Australia, Chile, Abu Dhabi.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: liuzengqiang on Feb 01, 2013, 08:23 pm
But I was able to deliver over three times the volume/weight and the same cost to lots places with US using regional rate boxes so if you need to ship a largish package go with regional rate boxes.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: CrossRoads on Feb 01, 2013, 08:31 pm
Look here
https://www.usps.com/ship/service-chart.htm#2

There is no Regional Rate Boxes service listed for international.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: liuzengqiang on Feb 01, 2013, 08:35 pm
Yes, I'm only talking internal. Shipping out of the boarder, if you don't want to scare customers away with shipping charges, you are likely going to lose money.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: liuzengqiang on Feb 12, 2013, 08:44 pm
A first class 4.5 oz bubble mailer package to Greece just cost me $12.75. It was like half that much last month. I had to ask buyer to send me additional cost, felt really bad about it.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: rvasque on Feb 12, 2013, 09:12 pm
2011 - costs $13.25  small flat rate box
2012 - costs $16.95  small flat rate box
2013 - costs $23.95  small flat rate box

... it doesn't look very attractive for International customers buying from US sellers now.

of course, if you have a unique product, customers have no choice but to bite the bullet and buy from you.


Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: wizdum on Feb 13, 2013, 03:27 am

A first class 4.5 oz bubble mailer package to Greece just cost me $12.75. It was like half that much last month. I had to ask buyer to send me additional cost, felt really bad about it.


I ended up just eating the cost on both my shipments.

I love paying people money for the privilege of taking things from me, ugh. If this keeps up, we're going to have to redefine "going postal". Not only do we no longer make things in America anymore, even if we did make them we couldn't afford to ship them out of the country.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: GoForSmoke on Feb 20, 2013, 04:42 am
In the old days this would be a business opportunity. Maybe brokering space in shipping containers and cargo jets, there's got to be enough waste to capitalize on the way things usually work.

Or maybe things aren't as simple as we're led to believe and USPS is still a real good deal.







Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: CrossRoads on Feb 20, 2013, 04:47 am
Still way cheaper than DHL, UPS, FEDEX for international.
Maybe its fuel prices that are driving it.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: GoForSmoke on Feb 20, 2013, 05:02 am
Possibly an angle would be connecting with store chains to have people pick up items at the stores? Look at how much they spend on coupons to get people in the doors, maybe you'll get a break.
I buy from many places here, I can pick up my order at the store and pay zero shipping. I also drop boxes off so why not more local-point as opposed to door-to-door distro? Why, in some places it would mean more (yes, minimum wage) JOBS!!!

Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: CrossRoads on Feb 20, 2013, 05:24 am
How's that pickup work for international deliveries?  I already have to drop the package off with a postal employee, who scans the preprinted label and drops it in the bin behind him. I can't leave it in my mailbox to be picked up. It has to be handed over.
Clears customs, and then what? Probably goes to international version of our post office (you're in the US?) for however its delivered there.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: liuzengqiang on Feb 20, 2013, 05:38 am
I guess small business international shipping market is too small and there is no forum to speak to other small businesses sharing the same concerns. Don't know how this postage spike helps these businesses but yeah mail coupons and credit card invitations seem to pour in my mail box just as before. I wonder how much big businesses pay for one letter. Must be a deep discount for them at the extra cost of individuals and small businesses. Those are truly junk mails. No use, no purpose, jamming my box. I have not accepted any single credit card offer even if I receive multiple a week, for at least the past decade or so, that's at least 1,000 mails wasted. I also had to rip them apart since every single one has my address printed on the application.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: GoForSmoke on Feb 20, 2013, 06:31 am

How's that pickup work for international deliveries? 


That would have to be worked out between vendor and marketer. Perhaps if a group of makers made the approach with a catalog and sales history? You wouldn't be asking them to advertise (cists money) or even display (uses shelf space). Just to distribute which brings customers into stores.

What I see might be an opportunity given store chains that already have their own delivery systems and you might have end-customers that can reach the stores easily enough or pay more for shipping, always an option!

But beyond that? Does Europe have big country to country retailers? How about in the Mideast or South America?

Will the stores allow what? Or the governments? 
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: CrossRoads on Feb 20, 2013, 06:35 am
I don't know, sounds like more than I can tackle by myself.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: wizdum on Feb 20, 2013, 07:38 am

I guess small business international shipping market is too small and there is no forum to speak to other small businesses sharing the same concerns. Don't know how this postage spike helps these businesses but yeah mail coupons and credit card invitations seem to pour in my mail box just as before. I wonder how much big businesses pay for one letter. Must be a deep discount for them at the extra cost of individuals and small businesses. Those are truly junk mails. No use, no purpose, jamming my box. I have not accepted any single credit card offer even if I receive multiple a week, for at least the past decade or so, that's at least 1,000 mails wasted. I also had to rip them apart since every single one has my address printed on the application.


They used to be nice for starting fires. Now the crappy paper/ink they use makes them useless even for that. I have to use newsprint to start a fire to burn junkmail. FFS.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: retrolefty on Feb 20, 2013, 02:56 pm
Mean while the tons of Asian electronic parts and module sellers on E-bay can still offer free air shipment on their very low cost items, delivered by my local post office. Just doesn't make sense.

Lefty

Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: Constantin on Feb 20, 2013, 03:02 pm
Doesn't surprise me one bit.

For example, their governments may have made a conscious decision to subsidize exports. Remember, delivery costs are negotiated from Postal org to postal org so opportunities for subsidies thus exist.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: liuzengqiang on Feb 20, 2013, 04:36 pm
Most of these  free shipping packages come out of Hongkong and Singapore possibly both free ports with low shipping cost. The Chinese government for one, doesn't give a damn to small businesses so maybe for large businesses where they can squeeze out money.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: liuzengqiang on Mar 07, 2013, 06:13 pm
International shipping rates:
Weight (ounces)    Weight (Lb)   1 Canada    2 Mexico    3-5   4-6
1   0.06    $6.55     $6.55     $6.55     $6.55
2   0.13    $6.55     $6.55     $6.55     $6.55
3   0.19    $7.35     $8.85     $9.45     $9.15
4   0.25    $7.35     $8.85     $9.45     $9.15
5   0.31    $8.55     $11.55     $12.75     $12.15
6   0.38    $8.55     $11.55     $12.75     $12.15
7   0.44    $8.55     $11.55     $12.75     $12.15
8   0.50    $8.55     $11.55     $12.75     $12.15
12   0.75    $9.15     $13.50     $14.90     $14.30
16   1.00    $10.55     $15.05     $16.75     $16.25
20   1.25    $11.95     $16.60     $18.60     $18.20
24   1.50    $13.35     $18.15     $20.45     $20.15
28   1.75    $14.75     $19.70     $22.30     $22.10
32   2.00    $16.15     $21.25     $24.15     $24.05
36   2.25    $17.55     $22.80     $26.00     $26.00
40   2.50    $18.95     $24.35     $27.85     $27.95
44   2.75    $20.35     $25.90     $29.70     $29.90
48   3.00    $21.75     $27.45     $31.55     $31.85
52   3.25    $23.15     $29.00     $33.40     $33.80
56   3.50    $24.55     $30.55     $35.25     $35.75
60   3.75    $25.95     $32.10     $37.10     $37.70
64   4.00    $27.35     $33.65     $38.95     $39.65
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: rvasque on Mar 07, 2013, 06:37 pm
I just charge my International buyers (Canada, Mexico, Asia, Europe) a flat $25 for anything that will inside a small flat rate box, and $60 for anything bigger/bulkier (shipped via usps priority mail).

I don't ship out anything on cheap International First Class mail.... ever.  If the $490 shipment gets lost, I have to reship it again or refund the customer their  purchase price. Either way, I'm out of luck and lost $490 out of pocket... all because I'm trying to save him a few dollars in shipping fees. So I say f*ck it... $60 shipping for your $490 purchase.   

I also don't do "combined" shipping for International customers. If they buy (2) units, and each unit/set costs $60 to ship, I charge them $120... and they get (2) packages delivered to them separately. (lessens my chance that both packages will get lost)

I have a current customer that paid $300 on shipping fees alone.... but he ordered $3K worth of stuff. He'll get (5) separate boxes shipped to him.


Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: GoForSmoke on Mar 07, 2013, 08:19 pm
For important parts it's well worth the extra. I guess you don't sell toys?  :smiley-mr-green:

Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: liuzengqiang on Mar 07, 2013, 08:21 pm
My packages are pretty much $30-$50 values only so I can't afford to ship other than first class. If it gets lost, well I lose money. The USPS high price on shipping and insurance only available on express international make doing business to the world a very difficult thing.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: JoeN on Mar 07, 2013, 08:56 pm

I just charge my International buyers (Canada, Mexico, Asia, Europe) a flat $25 for anything that will inside a small flat rate box, and $60 for anything bigger/bulkier (shipped via usps priority mail).

I don't ship out anything on cheap International First Class mail.... ever.  If the $490 shipment gets lost, I have to reship it again or refund the customer their  purchase price. Either way, I'm out of luck and lost $490 out of pocket... all because I'm trying to save him a few dollars in shipping fees. So I say f*ck it... $60 shipping for your $490 purchase.  

I also don't do "combined" shipping for International customers. If they buy (2) units, and each unit/set costs $60 to ship, I charge them $120... and they get (2) packages delivered to them separately. (lessens my chance that both packages will get lost)

I have a current customer that paid $300 on shipping fees alone.... but he ordered $3K worth of stuff. He'll get (5) separate boxes shipped to him.


That's great if your customers are willing to pay it, of course.  Not every business has that situation.  In fact, I would say it is pretty rare.

Think this guy can charge $30 per package for shipping?  Or pays anything close to USPS rates?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100pcs-5mm-White-13000mcd-Flat-Top-LED-Lamp-Super-Bright-leds-/221128574436

Foreign delivery, all in, $4.50.  And I've seen even cheaper.

USPS wanted $9 to ship some incorrect BCD switches that I received back to Taiwan.  It was probably about the same weight as this package, about 3 ounces in all including mailer and some bubble wrap.  No question they are getting a far better deal over there.  And it's the same product, same amount of labor involved in a Taiwan to US vs a US to Taiwan international shipment.  It's not like U.S. manufacturing vs. overseas manufacturing, shipments utilize labor in both countries and in the same amount.  So USPS pricing does not make sense and puts US vendors at a disadvantage and I agree with Crossroads assessment of the situation.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: liuzengqiang on Mar 07, 2013, 10:27 pm
There are now more ebay sellers in the USA offering free shipping on these cheap stuff since they buy them from manufacturers and ship huge quantity cheap and then sell them in the USA. On the other hand, we micro-businesses can't get any discounts. Any solution?
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: wizdum on Mar 08, 2013, 01:56 am

There are now more ebay sellers in the USA offering free shipping on these cheap stuff since they buy them from manufacturers and ship huge quantity cheap and then sell them in the USA. On the other hand, we micro-businesses can't get any discounts. Any solution?


I wonder if they would accept some kind of bulk order similar to how OSHPark does their circuitboard orders. We all use the same account to get shipping quotes.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: rvasque on Mar 08, 2013, 07:04 am
Quote
So USPS pricing does not make sense


Tell that to their pensioners, and healthcare provider. It's their healthcare and pension costs that is out of control and that's why USPS is in the deep hellhole it is right now.

And their only solution to their out-of-control costs problem is to try increasing revenue by raising rates for all of us.

---

Now, as to competing with HK and Chinese sellers.... you can't. Forget about it. You'll always lose.
They can get their parts, labor costs and shipping costs cheap cheap cheap!!!... even if you buy your parts in bulk.
The only way you can compete is by designing and producing innovative products that they CANNOT copy... well, at least legally.... i.e. don't give them permission to copy it.

In other words, OPEN SOURCE HARDWARE is a big freaking welcome gate and permission slip for Chinese and HK business to copy copy copy everything, produce it, and sell it far cheaper than you can ever imagine/produce by yourself here in the US. 

So here you are, designing hardware and writing software and releasing it as open source hardware, and they'll be the ones benefiting and reaping the rewards... not you. They'll be the ones making the sale, not you.... and you can't do anything about it since well, you said it was open source.
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: nickgammon on Mar 08, 2013, 08:05 am

I also had to rip them apart since every single one has my address printed on the application.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_shredder
Title: Re: USPS out to kill hobby shipping
Post by: GoForSmoke on Mar 08, 2013, 11:42 am

Quote
So USPS pricing does not make sense


Tell that to their pensioners, and healthcare provider. It's their healthcare and pension costs that is out of control and that's why USPS is in the deep hellhole it is right now.

And their only solution to their out-of-control costs problem is to try increasing revenue by raising rates for all of us.



There has already been one post in this thread explaining how USPS has to pay 2x more into those funds than other federal agencies because they've been marked for extinction.

But the real big evidence that they are not leeches on society is the comparison between USPS and private agencies that charge much much more.

We have out-of-control costs because resources have getting shorter for over 40 years and a small segment of the population takes an ever-increasing amount to themselves. The numbers you see are a direct result of that and the inflation used to keep it going. Instead of everyone slowing down a little, a few have rocketed up higher than ever in history while the majority have lost out more every year, and still you get guys whose idea of economy fits that of the US in 1770 or Old Testament times.

The US budget info has been published since 1910. The numbers are there. Every time we have a war the debt has jacked up significantly. Every time the War-Borrowing Spree has ended it's only a while before the poor get blamed for higher prices and then we have -another- war. Look at the data, look at the years, look at the price indexes and if you can still say war is good for the economy or that war has not been the major driver of national debt then you shouldn't do math beyond checking your change at the counter.