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16  Products / Arduino Yún / Re: Is the Arduino Yun still Open Hardware? on: February 07, 2014, 04:32:39 pm
Thank you!

However, I'd prefer to have the information available in the first place to save me all this RE work. And this is why I am trying at least to get this information into projects for the Open Hardware community like the Arduino one.

BTW, do you know someone official from the Arduino Team that would be able to address this above concern?
17  Products / Arduino Yún / Re: Is the Arduino Yun still Open Hardware? on: February 07, 2014, 03:33:44 pm
What you ask is  QCA reference designs #AP121.

Sign NDA with QCA (Qualcomm Atheros) to get all the support, and you need  RF and Embed as well Linux engineer on staff.

No, I don't want to sign no agreement, and especially a non-disclosure agreement for accessing what is supposed to be an open-hardware product!

I don't need no staff either: I am an engineer, I know RF enough to be dangerous (Spectrum analyzer, VNA and understanding of RF ART calibration), I work under Linux for 20 years and for about 10 years on Embedded Linux and/or microcontroller stuff, with active participation to OpenWrt and Linux kernel by porting it to half a dozen of routers and stuff in the MTD driver.

See my reverse engineering of the AR9331-based TL-WR703N router.

I'm concerned with Arduino being open or not.
I on the other hand don't understand the importance of AR9331 being open. Are the AVR chips open? I guess not (I really don't know)
For me Arduino is open if they tell you which components they use and how they are being used. It does not mean they have to use all open components (I assume they never did)

Or am I missing something?

I am concerned too, as this Yun board is clearly a major change in the Arduino policy. The AVR is a chip that you can buy and with a public datasheet to play with. The AR9331 has no public datasheet, and even the schematics containing the required components to make it work is under NDA, and you can't buy as retail, although you find many brokers in China (even for very low quantities).

So no, Arduino no longer tells you all the components they use, and they now use components with no public information on them, even the reference design on how to use them, thus my OP.


As promised, "The hardware reference designs (CAD files) are available under an open-source license, you are free to adapt them to your needs." I was expecting the .brd or .sch files which could be "adapted."

On the other hand, so Arduino is sort of NDA products? "Non-Disclosure Agreement"
Then the word "opensource" should not be arbitrarily used.
That is no more than fraud.

I completely agree with you: I have no problem with people making money or closed hardware, but advertising the Yun as Open Hardware is a lie, and this attitude is new to Arduino.

What I would like is a PUBLIC statement from the Arduino team that the Yun contains proprietary and/or non-disclosed materials that prevent you from adapting the board to your needs, even if the excuse for such change is to try to bring more power to the user, as this comes to the expense of freedom.
18  Products / Arduino Yún / Re: Is the Arduino Yun still Open Hardware? on: February 07, 2014, 11:11:43 am
Ok, so were are the schematics and layout for the Hornet (AR9331) MOST important parts?

Where are the schematics and layout in editable format? smiley-mr-green
19  Products / Arduino Yún / Re: Is the Arduino Yun still Open Hardware? on: February 07, 2014, 12:52:56 am
I arrived at the same conclusion smiley-sad

I don't have any problem with someone making money or selling a name, but I am concerned when you don't respect your promises and treat people like  cash providers and pretend to be community-driven.
20  International / Français / Re: WR703N + VinciDuino on: October 12, 2013, 02:24:14 am
Impossible à dire avec certittude, car les schémas complets du Yun (comprenant la partie AR9331) ne sont pas disponibles smiley-cry

En pratique, je pense en effet que le Yun soit très proche d'une Leonardo + WR703N car également basé sur OpenWrt, avec probablement les mêmes problèmes de freeze de la voie série virtuelle sur USB...
21  Products / Arduino Yún / Re: Is the Arduino Yun still Open Hardware? on: September 18, 2013, 02:31:43 pm
I think you can refer dragino ms14

The wiki.openwrt has poor informations about, but the most relevant thing is that it has a common jtag interface which i need for the most. Wandering where i can buy one of these unit, it seems interesting!
It looks like they have an online store:
https://shop.dragino.com/
22  Products / Arduino Yún / Re: Is the Arduino Yun still Open Hardware? on: September 18, 2013, 11:14:23 am
I think you can refer dragino ms14 for the wifi part schematic. this board uses same CPU, RAM, FLASH as Arudino Yun and the schematic is available at :http://www.dragino.com/downloads/index.php?dir=motherboards/ms14/

Thanks!

This is exactly what I am expecting to find for the Arduino Yun board.

I am still waiting for an official answer to my OP question, though.
23  Products / Arduino Yún / Re: Is the Arduino Yun still Open Hardware? on: September 17, 2013, 11:47:59 pm
Maybe if you contact Dog Hunter, they can provide more information? (Their website is really lacking...)

http://doghunter.org/contact.html
Yeah, but given tha little information there, it sounds like a message in a bottle smiley-confuse

I wish the promises on the Arduino website home page are still true:
Quote
The boards can be built by hand or purchased preassembled; the software can be downloaded for free. The hardware reference designs (CAD files) are available under an open-source license, you are free to adapt them to your needs.
24  Products / Arduino Yún / Re: Is the Arduino Yun still Open Hardware? on: September 17, 2013, 03:22:34 pm
p.s.
also you can appreciate how pretty complicated is the firmware on the uboot side, just have a look about the early boot, DDR stuff, TLB, etc, 10000:1 the complexness of arduino bootloader, so you can't really think to handle a so complicated object from scratches, simply silly, not possible for hobby! May be possible for a skilled team, but we are speaking of a job task.

Yes, you are right: even if this is complex, you can actually LOOK INTO IT! This is the whole point: open hardware/software provides you the ability to understand how things work, the limits are yours.

So it is possible indeed... And fun! It just requires a few skilled hobbyists around the Internet. Been there, done that! Actually, pretty rewarding: you learn a lot, and meet some very interesting people!

It is a sad day if we loose this open hardware/software characteristic for the Arduino.
25  Products / Arduino Yún / Re: Is the Arduino Yun still Open Hardware? on: September 17, 2013, 02:53:27 pm
From my point of view the SoC is just an accessory around arduino, something like the wifi shield, so you could see it as "black box", something you can talk through the bridge on the serial port. Also, why do you want to toy with a very complicated piece of hardware ? Soldering and handling the Atheros SoC is not a piece of cake, so any really reason to have much more details about.
The WiFi "black box" is what makes the Yun different from the Leonardo!

Why are you tinkering with an Arduino? You have to wire stuff, solder components, why don't you just program on a PC;)

This is all about learning, building stuff to understand how it is working, knowledge and freedom: you know, all these boring matters...  smiley-wink

Please take a look at my reverse engineering efforts on the TL-WR703N to see my determination smiley-mr-green
26  Products / Arduino Yún / Re: Is the Arduino Yun still Open Hardware? on: September 17, 2013, 02:44:58 pm
I think that if you wanna see the schematic you'd better go to SoC development platform, something like "evalue board", which comes with schematic and such a detailed hw stuff. "Carambola" boards may be interesting.
No, the Carambola doesn't give you the module schematic either, only the uninteresting connectors and passive stuff...

About WR703N i think it is a toy, poor ram (32Mbyte), poor flash(4Mb), hardcoded uboot's env, no good at all! Also only 2 usable gpio.
You can find some hacks to upgrade the RAM to 64MB and the Flash to 16MB, or buy some already upgraded for you.

The hardcoded environment is really not a big problem, since you don't spend your life in there:)

As for the GPIOs: Linux is far from real-time, and beside blinking a LED with these GPIOs, it is not very useful. The best thing to do is to connect it to a microcontroller to delegate the real-time GPIO control. In this regard, the Arduino is a very good choice IMHO.

There are cheaper alternatives to the WR703N, like the TopLink TOP-AP01:
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/913315915/RT5350_150Mbps_embedded_wifi_router_AP.html

Only $7.5 in a 8MB/32MB configuration...
27  Products / Arduino Yún / Re: Is the Arduino Yun still Open Hardware? on: September 17, 2013, 02:31:19 pm
This might help answer some questions....?
Adafruit's "Ask an Engineer" show w/ guest Massimo Banzi. They start talking about Yun, and what's beneath the metal shield at around the 17 minute mark.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3dtnu-neRUo
Thank you for linking this video!

Always interesting to see Massimo, although it doesn't give much details about the Linux hardware...

What I fear that with the excuse of providing a trendy "Cloud" access, the Arduino Yun is denying its Open Hardware roots smiley-sad
28  Products / Arduino Yún / Re: Is the Arduino Yun still Open Hardware? on: September 16, 2013, 11:55:18 pm
I guess the WIFI module with the shield may be similar to WR703n, the one you once did the reverse engineer on it(Very amazing, and so appreciate).
Thanks gaplee!
The WR703N is a commercial product, so there was no other choice... I hope this is not the case with the notoriously Open Hardware Arduino platform!

I don't see any special on arduino yun schematic, biggest difference maybe the USB-Hub chip intergrated with the SD card reader.
Yes, I know the AU6350-MGL chip, very good choice, although you can't get it easily at your corner shop.

Thanks for what you did on the RT5350 chip to make openwrt run on it.
It seems you follow all my moves smiley
29  Products / Arduino Yún / Re: Is the Arduino Yun still Open Hardware? on: September 13, 2013, 04:43:40 am
The schematic seems fairly complete to me http://arduino.cc/en/uploads/Main/arduino-Yun-schematic.pdf
The RAM for instance is on the last page of the pdf ...
?!?

There is no RAM of Flash chip in the schematic. On the last page, I only see:
  • The combo USB hub + SD Card controller chip U14 (AU6350MGL)
  • The microSD connector JP2 with ESD diodes D12~D18
  • The USB-A Host connector J4 with ESD diodes U18
  • The USB overcurrent protection chip U15 (MIC2005A-1YM5)
30  Products / Arduino Yún / Re: Is the Arduino Yun still Open Hardware? on: September 13, 2013, 02:35:25 am
The only "Hornet" I know of is not a "chip" but an AR9331-based router from ALFA Network:
http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/alfa.network/hornet-ub

And the "MIPS 24K" block in the schematic cannot just be the AR9331 SoC alone: the AR9331 chip is a 148-pin, 12 mm x 12 mm dual-row LPCC package, without any built-in SDRAM or Flash memory, requiring a handful of support components.

So, what is exactly under the shield?
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