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1  Community / Bar Sport / Re: Your opinion on piracy? on: August 20, 2012, 01:38:58 am
If you post your credit card number here, your credit card will still have the required digits.
Whether or not your bank account will have the required digits shortly after is another matter.

Yeah that's true.

But money (including the digital form) is only as good as the physical goods and services it can buy. In other words, I adhere (for the most part) to an energy theory of value (cf. the Technocracy movement).

It takes very little energy to duplicate software, etc.
2  Community / Bar Sport / Re: Your opinion on piracy? on: August 19, 2012, 06:58:26 am
The diesel analogy is flawed because imitating one person's configuration of ones and zeros does not deprive them of said digits.

Tapping into the diesel tank is a bit different.
3  Topics / Science and Measurement / Does anybody have experience with laboratory automation via Arduino? on: August 19, 2012, 06:56:39 am
I'm just curious right now because I'm a long way from needing this. A lot of scientific equipment talks with RS232 (example), and you can get Arduino to talk to RS232.

A few questions crop up, for those who have done something like this:

  • What equipment was it, and what needed to be done?
  • What special sensors or effectors were used in the application?
  • Did the professional equipment come with a manual telling you how to interpret / send data along the serial link, or did you have to reverse engineer anything?
  • Was the programming relatively simple for your purposes, or did you have to dive into (digital) control theory for a proper outcome? (I haven't learned control theory yet so now would be a good time to know.)
4  Community / Bar Sport / Re: Your opinion on piracy? on: August 19, 2012, 06:15:33 am
In my case, piracy is a Pareto-efficient outcome compared to the realistic alternative: I don't get the product and the publisher doesn't get any money. Here's an example:

http://store.elsevier.com/Encyclopedia-of-Ecology-Five-Volume-Set/isbn-9780444520333/

The Encyclopedia of Ecology set costs 2,845 USD.

OK.

Two scenarios can come out of this.

  • I don't download this set. Elsevier gets no money.
  • I download this set. Elsevier gets no money.

So, either way, Elsevier gets $squat. But only in the latter case do I get to use this encyclopedia set. That's why it's Pareto-efficient: Elsevier is made no worse off by my piracy.

Now, if it were a poor starving artist losing out, I might think a bit differently, but these academic publishers will live, easily. Also, they shouldn't garner too much sympathy given the way they behave. Since Elsevier is the object of my example:

Elsevier Caught Again: Published Ghost Written, Industry Supporting Articles As Scientific Resesarch

If you want to, consider what I'm doing punishment.

And, on that note, my e-books blog is now up to 600 posts. (I have an automated uploading system but Google only allows 50 non-captcha posts in a 24 hour period, whereof the multiple of 50.) PROBLEM?
5  Community / Bar Sport / Re: Ardunio C++ SUCKS!!!! on: August 16, 2012, 02:41:12 am
gooby,

You have much to say, but do you have any constructive decisions in your mind?

Why should that matter here? If I were talking like this in the Suggestions forum, it would be an issue, but I'm not.

So it isn't.

My view that C++ is essentially inferior to a number of its alternatives stands.

Quote
More pointing out that things could have been better.

Your obviously not married - you soon see the error in that.

Duane B

The main reason I got into Arduino was to—one day—facilitate entering into an industry where replacing human with microcontroller assistants would cut the drama down to nothing ... and that's very important in this case. Don't think a spouse would necessarily approve of this venture either.
6  Community / Bar Sport / Re: Ardunio C++ SUCKS!!!! on: August 16, 2012, 02:10:35 am
@gooby: What's your point exactly? Do you wish the Arduino had been developed using Basic? Or Lisp? Or Smalltalk? Or Objective C? If so, that's interesting but hardly relevant to anyone.

How would it be interesting then, if it's not relevant to anyone?

To me that makes no sense.

Re: Smalltalk: the extreme late-binding most likely makes it unsuitable for microcontrollers ... that I know of.

Or have you just come here to complain?

Not quite complaining. What exists is satisfactory. More pointing out that things could have been better.
7  Community / Bar Sport / Re: Ardunio C++ on: August 16, 2012, 02:08:05 am
You and the OP better put on boxing gloves and get together in a ring somewhere.

He says it is "under documented" and you say it has 1100+ pages of documentation. You can't both be right.  Maybe neither of you are.

I don't think Arduino C++ (which is not the same as ISO C++) is under-documented. Regarding my claim about the ISO standard, well that's easy:

http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=50372

Number of Pages: 1338

Woops, sorry, I low-balled it.
8  Community / Bar Sport / Re: Ardunio C++ SUCKS!!!! on: August 16, 2012, 01:48:13 am
You're jesting, I presume. That is just an index page.

Yeah, OK. Browse around a little. Would that add up to the 700+ pages that the first C++ standard had? (To say nothing of the current 1100+?)

What do you mean exactly? The compiled code? The source code needed to achieve something useful? The documentation?

Any combination thereof (templates in particular have a way of inflating code size), though I had the standard as such in mind. What you need to know to understand the language fully.

Of course when you're running closer to the hardware the amount of code generally increases, so that's not all C++'s fault as such. I should note however that OCaml is pretty high-level, compiles to machine code, and can compare favorably to competitors in that arena esp. if you take special care in features you use.

I eagerly await an example of writing, say, an interrupt service routine in Lisp.

Interrupt handlers? Sure Lisp dialects have them. Again, not that I'm a huge fan of Common Lisp ... I have heard tell that it's used in time-critical algorithmic trading applications though.
9  Community / Bar Sport / Re: Ardunio C++ SUCKS!!!! on: August 16, 2012, 01:22:39 am
Quote
C++ is a godawful programming language.

it can be if your trying to do something simple .. course you can write it in plain ole C and cut that down quite a bit

I'm not talking about the level of abstraction or whatever. Depending on what you mean by "simple" (it's ambiguous) I would prefer either OCaml or Python (ideally). Python is my everyday language; OCaml I use when performance counts but I want to keep GC and other powerful features, like partial application (not easy in most other languages!).

But C++ as a language is disgustingly huge.

its not cut down

Trust me. Here's the first edition of the standard (it's substantially larger now) :

http://www-d0.fnal.gov/~dladams/cxx_standard.pdf

Look at all that stuff. Eugh! Even if you consider a lot of it to be implicit in this:

http://arduino.cc/en/Reference/HomePage

It still easily outstrips what Arduino implements. And other programming languages do essentially the same things in a far smaller framework. Compare the disaster that is C++ polymorphism to how ML and co. do it. Smaller, thus easier to understand and type-safe.

nothing is really stopping you from doing hard core C or C++ or ASM, shit, toggle registers with a grounded needle for all we care

That's not what I'm talking about. I use Python, after all. I'm not about making things needlessly hard. I use Python whenever I can because the language and the milieu that grew up around it tends to make everything so easy. My point is that C++ is heinously baroque. Rococo even. It's even worse than Common Lisp.

Design-wise, my favorite is Smalltalk. Smalltalk variants have a lot of drawbacks to be absolutely clear. But look at how much you can get done with so few constructs. Scheme is comparable, too, though I personally hate macros (not that you're bound to write your own). But the bottom line is simplicity: that's where C++ got it wrong. That's also where Objective-C gets it right. Not that I'm a huge Apple fan but the de facto standard description of Obj-C and important ancillaries is over there on their website.

http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/ObjectiveC/Introduction/introObjectiveC.html

See how much smaller that is?
10  Community / Bar Sport / Re: Ardunio C++ SUCKS!!!! on: August 16, 2012, 12:39:47 am
Well um yeah you can definitely write subroutines in C++...

But, incidentally, I agree.

C++ is a godawful programming language. I understand the need for economy, which is just fine but could it have been Objective-C (genuine superset of C, Smalltalk-based object system, simpler syntax and semantics)?

At any rate C++ as it appears in Arduino appears to be considerably stripped down from the 1,338 page ISO standard. (Seriously what the ----?)

Moderator edit: Removed profanity. (Nick Gammon)
11  Using Arduino / General Electronics / Re: Trouble reading some circuit diagrams on: August 15, 2012, 08:30:23 pm
AC, capacitance and inductance are up ahead.

I think I may hold off on some of that because Arduino is DC. Not exactly fixing to take apart / build household appliances at this juncture.
12  Using Arduino / General Electronics / Re: Trouble reading some circuit diagrams on: August 15, 2012, 07:40:29 pm
As already mentioned, I got it.
13  Using Arduino / General Electronics / Re: Trouble reading some circuit diagrams on: August 15, 2012, 06:43:48 pm
Quote
I just reached nodal analysis and Thévenin comes after that.

Perhaps I wasn't clairvoyant enough.

Curioser and curioser. So, you asked for the solution before even reading the theory?

No.

These problems were at the tail end of Chapter 7, "Series-Parallel Circuits". Nodal analysis is discussed in Chapter 8, "Methods of Analysis"; Thévenin is discussed in Chapter 9, "Network Theorems".

7 < 8

7 < 9

What did I tell you about trying harder?
14  Using Arduino / General Electronics / Re: Trouble reading some circuit diagrams on: August 15, 2012, 06:25:44 pm
but these 2 problems are really
rather trivial CircuitTheory101 problems. Can be solved either via nodal equations
[as others mentioned] or via Thevenin equivalent reductions, which is what I
would do, and is probably 5X faster than the other.

I just reached nodal analysis and Thévenin comes after that.

Perhaps I wasn't clairvoyant enough.

Offhand, these are so simple to solve that the pilfered e-books must not have presented
the underlying theory very well. Maybe that's karma.

The text is the following:

http://www.amazon.com/Circuit-Analysis-Theory-Practice-3E/dp/1401811566

It is well-rated; I have understood its contents, again, with few exceptions perfectly:



(Notice those check marks I was talking about.)

Everything I upload goes through a rigorous vetting process which is what kept Jonah Lehrer's tripe out well before his recent public disgrace; you people are strangely confusing me for someone who isn't at all thorough. Additionally, karma is a concept with little empirical support.

Please, try harder.

Re-draw them so there's more "flow" (attached).



That was actually helpful. It makes sense now. Thanks.
15  Using Arduino / General Electronics / Re: Trouble reading some circuit diagrams on: August 15, 2012, 03:16:24 pm
As for being proud to have so many books gained in a illicit manner... My opinion is that they seem wasted on you so far.

I once sent in a correction to the 1600 page, 2 volume set Mind as Machine (so acquired) regarding a nuance of recursion and received a "thank you" from the author.

Do you know me?

Regardless, basic concepts like these resistor networks need to be understood so you can build upon them.  There are no shortcuts.

I do understand nearly all of these problems. I have a notebook full of ✓ marks over solved problems. These two are the SOLE exceptions, which is why I asked about them here.
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