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1  Development / Other Software Development / Re: [MOD] Arduino Enhanced Release 1.0.5 for Windows (installer, drivers, etc) +SRC on: May 14, 2014, 12:19:12 pm
I don't see any overkill near effort. It should be needed for only the IDE-tab-files. Perhaps it would be enough to glue them all together like its already done and do it with one avr-gpp call.

But again, I have no say and am a noob. :-)

2  Development / Other Software Development / Re: [MOD] Arduino Enhanced Release 1.0.5 for Windows (installer, drivers, etc) +SRC on: May 13, 2014, 11:34:13 am
Yes, for that specific file is ugly :/ what solution do you suggest?

Let us take this:
Code:
#ifdef foo
  #include <fish.h>
#else
  #include <duck.h>
#endif

void main() {}

Call the preprocessor with
Code:
avr-cpp blah.c -M -MG -MF blah.make

creates

Code:
blah.o: blah.c duck.h

adding a #define foo at the begin of blah.c creates

Code:
blah.o: blah.c fish.h

So run avr-cpp for each "tab" of the ide, collect the results, remove all includes, add the avr-pp-added includes.

This is the result of 10 minutes thinking, including a toilet break and getting a fresh coffee made by a total c/gcc noob. So it might not be a working strategy. But to me it looks like an approach a more experienced developer could dig into... or at least say why it wont work. And yes, I see the longer compile time and no, I don't care and yes, I could imagine a IDE-checkbox for turning this on and off and yes I see that this might add more confusion and yes, I so would suggest a quick regex on the source to see if there is any #if and then turn it on else leave it off if not IDE switch forces it on. Or so.

Quote
BTW, I am starting to mod 1.5.x

Good thing. I love the IDE, its simple and nice. While teaching it is easy to get the pupils fast moving with it.

On the other hand, Arduinos fixing errors and development is sooooo slow. We have had the library limit bug. There is the source code auto format (very needed for pupils...), a not so good project management, a boards-menu that could be folded twice around my monitor. I still love the remote reset feature.

Really, I like the simplicity.

If I had a say (...) I would say: freeze the 1.0.x, do some error fixing (like ERW, fix the limits etc) and forget it. And make a 2.x with no compatibility in mind at all. Just learn from the errors and move on to things that work better. So it could get rid of legacy stuff and evolve.
3  Development / Other Software Development / Re: [MOD] Arduino Enhanced Release 1.0.5 for Windows (installer, drivers, etc) +SRC on: May 12, 2014, 12:29:14 am
I dislike this concept.

With it I end in a awful situation: new version of any tool, download, install, add my patches. This means writing down all the things I have done and noting all the dependencies. Its cruel.

conditional includes in my code look so much cleaner to me.
4  Development / Other Software Development / Re: [MOD] Arduino Enhanced Release 1.0.5 for Windows (installer, drivers, etc) +SRC on: May 11, 2014, 03:51:14 pm
Be more verbose, please.

I use a ST7735 display during "emulation". So I have a #include for "Adafruit_GFX.h" and "Adafruit_ST7735.h".

How do I get rid of it when compiling for tiny85?
5  Development / Other Software Development / Re: [MOD] Arduino Enhanced Release 1.0.5 for Windows (installer, drivers, etc) +SRC on: May 11, 2014, 03:03:25 pm
Problem is very annoying when developing for different plattforms. I often emulate a ATtiny85 with some wires to the socket on a UNO-Board. Just for better debugging, attaching a display or such...

#if defined(__AVR_ATtiny85__) || defined(__AVR_ATtiny84__)
#else
#include <wire.h>
#endif

would be so nice.

As far as I see, there is really no easy solution. Simple text search doesn't work because the preprocessor has variables (define, undef) and branches (if).

Ok, easy would by to add another preprocessors onto of the ide. something, that knows plattforms and can do something. Baa. Not desirable.

Will 1.5 fix it?

6  Development / Other Software Development / Re: [MOD] Arduino Enhanced Release 1.0.5 for Windows (installer, drivers, etc) +SRC on: May 11, 2014, 12:52:19 pm
You are welcome. :-)

The other day I learned something new.

Code:
#define foo

#if defined foo
#include "fish.h"
#else
#include "fowl.h"
#endif.

So the big question is: which includes are included (mind any typos...)? Fish, fowl, both, nothing?

Surprisingly (really?) both. IDE-magic searches for include by pattern search... Those are the moments, when I start drinking more coffee.

7  Development / Other Software Development / Re: [MOD] Arduino Enhanced Release 1.0.5 for Windows (installer, drivers, etc) +SRC on: May 10, 2014, 04:05:14 pm
Jengil,

code compiles fine here using latest ERW.

I suspect path problems... easiest fix most of the time is: delete the arduino folder and reinstall.

8  Using Arduino / Sensors / Re: DS18B20 self heating or what? on: January 30, 2014, 10:38:23 am
I think that if you want calibrated temperature readings, you need to use an offset value for each individual sensor. I think that the 'standard' sensor is not calibrated for an offset, so it will read consistently for itself within 0.5 degrees as per spec, but the reading is not guaranteed to be within a certain deviation from a standard temperature. So sensors from different manufacturing batches would maybe all read the same, but not the same as a different batch.

That is why I always talked about comparing two or more sensors with each other. That way the error is meaningless.
9  Using Arduino / Sensors / Re: DS18B20 self heating or what? on: January 29, 2014, 03:10:52 pm
jremington, could you please explain the following:

- reading the same sensor again and again gives (almost) the same results. There is no variation anywhere near +-0.5 °C. See my data, it is at maximum at about +- 0.1 °C at a given sensor.

- comparing two sensors gives a (almost) constant difference between two sensors when exposed to the same environment situation. again this difference follows the before observation.

Why should two given sensors suddenly behave different when one is exposed to a different environment (blowing fan...)?

I'm totally with you if you talk about a prediction of unknown sensors. But here I have existing sensors whose behavior I can measure and compare...
10  Using Arduino / Sensors / Re: DS18B20 self heating or what? on: January 29, 2014, 02:37:59 pm
So we agree that a single DS18B20 has a (more or less) constant offset to the real temperature. So if I have a row of DS18B20 is see different temperatures on each sensor, but (more or less) constant for each sensor. (the later shows my data from last posting.)

Right?

This does not explain why there is a difference of about 1 °C between "with fan" and "no fan" regardless which sensor I use. If I swap sensors I get (more or less) the same results.
11  Using Arduino / Sensors / Re: DS18B20 self heating or what? on: January 29, 2014, 01:00:48 pm
data1 is just one measurement every second (or so). As far as I interpret it, it shows the room temperature sinking and that consecutive measurements are almost const. Sensor noise (is this the correct description?) is less than 0.1 °C.

data2 is holding my solder iron to the to-92 for some seconds, remove it and measure every second (or so).

It all doesn't say anything about real room temperature, only what the sensors thinks. But the difference between both seems to be constant +- 0.1 °C at maximum.
12  Using Arduino / Sensors / Re: DS18B20 self heating or what? on: January 29, 2014, 12:10:41 pm
Data sheet reading can be difficult!

I would be with you if I could see the values vary within the range of +-0.5. But they don't. They are more or less stable. I currently get

#2 62  Temperature = 20.69 Celsius,
#3 D4  Temperature = 20.31 Celsius,
#4 98  Temperature = 19.56 Celsius,
#4b 24  Temperature = 19.56 Celsius,
#4c 3C  Temperature = 19.56 Celsius,

for a really long time, vary within occasional jumps +-0.1 at maximum.

I would interpret the data sheet value of 0,5 °C as theoretical maximum constant offset value of accordance between real temperature and what the sensors gives. On page 19 Maxim writes about a "Thermometer Error", in figure 17 they give a mean error of 0.2 °C. It is not very clear.

There is nothing in the data sheet that says anything about the error between two consecutive measurements. At least I didn't find anything. As far as I see in reality, the consecutive measurements are quite stable (and don't jump +-0,5 °C).

And yes, I swapped sensors. Same game, same results.

13  Using Arduino / Sensors / Re: DS18B20 self heating or what? on: January 29, 2014, 11:15:54 am
I had the same suspicion.

By adding parallel DS18B20 to the fan #4 (so we have a #5 and #6) I see almost exact values for those DS18B20:

#2 62  Temperature = 20.75 Celsius,
#3 D4  Temperature = 20.56 Celsius,
#4 98  Temperature = 19.81 Celsius,
#4b 24  Temperature = 19.69 Celsius,
#4c 3C  Temperature = 19.62 Celsius,   

It is significant different. So: no, sorry, it is not the accuracy error.
14  Using Arduino / Sensors / DS18B20 self heating or what? on: January 29, 2014, 10:08:16 am
The self heating of the DS18B20 is a topic with a lot of things said about, GIYF. Yesterday I thought I had a bad case of self heating so I tried to explore it a little bit.

I wired up four DS18B20 on a breadboard. Two are on one bus, one of those is powered directly the other is powered in parasite mode. The parasite one got an additional cosy casing to try to keep all the heat. The third one has its own bus, powered directly via a PIN on the Arduino. Idea is to completely turn off the power during idle phases. The fourth one is like the third one with the difference of half a meter cable and a fan blowing mildly at the TO-92 package.

I took the "DS18x20_Temperature" example and modified it so that #1 and #2 are constantly polled while #3 and #4 are only polled once a minute. After 15 minutes I got the following results (almost stable on every read, within about +-0.2 °C or so):

#1 parasite+foam F3  Temperature = 20.69 Celsius
#2 self powered  62  Temperature = 20.87 Celsius
#3 power on measure D4  Temperature = 20.62 Celsius
#4 power on measure + fan 24  Temperature = 19.56 Celsius

So what it the conclusion? I'm not sure.

If I do some math, I end at the thermal resistance of a TO-92 with about 160 to 210 °C/W, depending on whom you ask. Maximum energy consumption of DS18B20 is about 5 mA at 5 V. Gives 25 mW or a deltaT of 5,25 °C. Taking only the "active" current of 1 mA it gives 1 °C.

The "1 °C" look so promising and it feels so wrong.

So, again, any conclusions?
15  Using Arduino / Project Guidance / Re: ATtiny85, delay() and TIMER0_COMPA_vect on: January 19, 2014, 09:58:58 am
Thanks Erni,

it really works.

Could you explain what happens? I read the PDF but I don't see the reason....

Thanks!
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