Arduino Forum

Using Arduino => General Electronics => Topic started by: Watcher on Oct 22, 2018, 05:03 pm

Title: Which type of strpboard do you prefer?
Post by: Watcher on Oct 22, 2018, 05:03 pm
Hi all,

So which type pf stripboard  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stripboard)do you prefer?

The type which has the pads separated like this one:

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=575002.0;attach=278852)


or the the ones with tracks connecting the pads like this one ?


(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=575002.0;attach=278854)
Title: Re: Which type of strpboard do you prefer?
Post by: DrAzzy on Oct 22, 2018, 05:26 pm
I use solderable breadboard / prototyping board, which splits the difference. You don't have to cut copper like you do with stripboard - and you don't have to make inevitably messy connections between holes like with the separate pads. (I never understood what the point of the protoboard with single holes is)
I sell boards like these in my tindie store (https://www.tindie.com/products/DrAzzy/2-x-4-prototypingproject-boards/)
(http://drazzy.com/e/products/img/AZP-8.jpg)


Similar products are available from other vendors, though I obviously think mine is better - I wasn't happy with what was available and started getting my own made.
Title: Re: Which type of strpboard do you prefer?
Post by: MarkT on Oct 22, 2018, 08:22 pm
tripad board is the simplest for most prototyping, less need to cut tracks, will accommodate DIP ICs
and IDC connectors (stripboard can't do the latter, note).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stripboard#TriPad (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stripboard#TriPad)

(Yes, it is possible to cut tracks between holes on stripboard, but its tricky and tripad
strikes me as easier, a good compromise between stripboard and isolated pads of protoboard)
Title: Re: Which type of strpboard do you prefer?
Post by: Watcher on Oct 22, 2018, 08:40 pm
One more thing to consider is that often stripboard is not used just for prototyping (with the strict sense of the term) but also for more permanent applications. That is in cases where a circuit has to be put together as one-of application and no proper  pcb design will follow.
Title: Re: Which type of strpboard do you prefer?
Post by: pert on Oct 23, 2018, 02:41 am
I do occasionally use the pad per hole type (I call it "protoboard") but I never use the single sided type. I only use the plated through hole double sided type. I use it only when I need to have things on both sides of the board. With the perfboard, you need to make solder jumpers to connect things and that is kind of a pain.

Otherwise, I much prefer stripboard. The stripboard I like is a little different than the picture you posted in that it has solder mask between the holes. The stripboard without the solder mask is cheaper but the solder wicks along the tracks and ends up making things look messy and the soldering is a little slower since you end up laying down more solder to get the joint you want.

(http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=575002.0;attach=278931)

Current cheapest sources after checking eBay and Aliexpress:


My dream stripboard would have strips on one side with soldermask but also plated through holes. Surprisingly, I've never seen that for sale.
Title: Re: Which type of strpboard do you prefer?
Post by: Grumpy_Mike on Oct 23, 2018, 11:47 am
Well I call the separate pads perf board.

I virtually always use strip board. I never use a PCB unless I want to make more than 10 of a thing.
Title: Re: Which type of strpboard do you prefer?
Post by: slipstick on Oct 23, 2018, 11:55 am
I nearly always use stripboard but I'm so old I still call it Veroboard which was the name when I first met it 50-odd years ago. It was a huge advance on having all those component legs just hanging about in mid-air.

Steve
Title: Re: Which type of strpboard do you prefer?
Post by: Watcher on Oct 23, 2018, 12:39 pm
Well I call the separate pads perf board.

I virtually always use strip board. I never use a PCB unless I want to make more than 10 of a thing.
Sometimes though a pcb is a must if you have to use smd components  or very dense boards.
Title: Re: Which type of strpboard do you prefer?
Post by: Grumpy_Mike on Oct 23, 2018, 01:39 pm
You can use a lot of surface mount components on strip board. Most of the discreet two and three pin parts and 0.05" pitch ICs.

(http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=575002.0;attach=278968)

Spot the surface mount resistor and capacitor on this one.
(http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=575002.0;attach=278970)

For finer pitch surface mount parts you can use PCB headers or breakout boards to translate to 0.1" pitch.

(http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=575002.0;attach=278974)
Title: Re: Which type of strpboard do you prefer?
Post by: Paul__B on Oct 23, 2018, 01:58 pm
Now that is just fascinating, but what is the purpose of that breadboard?
Title: Re: Which type of strpboard do you prefer?
Post by: Grumpy_Mike on Oct 23, 2018, 02:12 pm
Now that is just fascinating, but what is the purpose of that breadboard?
It is the display and switch I2C expansion interface for my Bat Bass project. It is to allow Sam, who has cerebral palsy, to continue to play a rather simplified Bass Guitar. He has a degenerate condition which will slowly get worse. He is having trouble holding down strings now so I built this using two bungy chords. The bass can be set to any key and one string will sound the note given by the key switch last pushed. The second string is always a fixed ( programmable ) number of semitones above the first string, typically a fifth.

I am part of the Drake Music Labs (North) where geeks like me and disabled people work together to produce accessible instruments. We meet in Manchester, next meeting https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/dmlab-north-west-meetups-tickets-44144134294 (https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/dmlab-north-west-meetups-tickets-44144134294)

(http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=575002.0;attach=278977)
Title: Re: Which type of strpboard do you prefer?
Post by: wvmarle on Oct 23, 2018, 03:32 pm
I normally use perfboard - with plated-through holes as otherwise the pads come loose too often. It's a pain.

No solder joints for me, a little planning and you can use the leads of resistors and capacitors to make most connections (slide some isolation left after stripping a wire over it to make a crossing), pieces of wire for the rest of the connections. Allows for a reasonably compact design.

Title: Re: Which type of strpboard do you prefer?
Post by: Watcher on Oct 23, 2018, 06:26 pm
Quote
You can use a lot of surface mount components on strip board. Most of the discreet two and three pin parts and 0.05" pitch ICs.
Cant imagine how I could do this with stripboard as a prototype..

(https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=575002.0;attach=279007)
Home made arduino micro compatible 6 channel relay board
Title: Re: Which type of strpboard do you prefer?
Post by: wvmarle on Oct 23, 2018, 06:32 pm
Not that hard, provided you have the proper breakout boards for those SMD ICs (or the DIP versions where available). Also use through hole resistors and so. Regulators as module with caps in place.

Overall really not that hard to do. I usually use KiCADs PCB design software to help out: 2.54mm grid, place components in a sensible way (so the rats nest is more or less untangled), and start wiring them together.

Also often you can simplify the prototype: possibly those relays are all the exact same circuit, just add one or two of them to see it all works.
Title: Re: Which type of strpboard do you prefer?
Post by: Watcher on Oct 23, 2018, 06:59 pm
@wvmarle:" what about placement sensitive parts like switching regulators that need short tracks etc?
Title: Re: Which type of strpboard do you prefer?
Post by: wvmarle on Oct 23, 2018, 07:27 pm
I use ready-made modules for those.

Such modules are cheap (I pay the equivalent of less then USD 1 a piece - 12V to 5V fixed output) and guaranteed to work quite well, it's just not worth the effort of trying to design my own for that. So even doing that on custom PCBs. Quick and easy :-)
Title: Re: Which type of strpboard do you prefer?
Post by: edmcguirk on Oct 23, 2018, 07:36 pm
I haven't tried it but this looks interesting:

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/improved-protoboardperfboard-for-direct-soic-mounting/ (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/improved-protoboardperfboard-for-direct-soic-mounting/)


(https://raw.githubusercontent.com/electroniceel/protoboard/master/photos/sample1.jpg)
Title: Re: Which type of strpboard do you prefer?
Post by: wvmarle on Oct 24, 2018, 05:10 am
I still prefer to use breakout boards for the SMD parts, and through-hole parts where possible.

Then the same IC can be used on breadboard, then on perfboard, and when testing is done recovered and used in another project (most ICs I don't buy in bags of 100 or 1000 like resistors and capacitors).

SMD parts are for actual PCBs. Unless you must... like the 47 uF ceramic caps I have in my kit, needed that for an experiment and those come only in SMD package, though they're also so big they easily go on regular perfboard.
Title: Re: Which type of strpboard do you prefer?
Post by: Grumpy_Mike on Oct 24, 2018, 06:45 am
SMD ceramic capacitors are much better for decoupling than leaded parts. And they fit well across adjacent tracks.
Title: Re: Which type of strpboard do you prefer?
Post by: Watcher on Oct 24, 2018, 07:03 am
Quote
SMD ceramic capacitors are much better for decoupling than leaded parts. And they fit well across adjacent tracks.
True!
Title: Re: Which type of strpboard do you prefer?
Post by: wvmarle on Oct 24, 2018, 07:08 am
It's just that so many ICs have their GND and Vcc pins on the far ends... (4 and 8 for OpAmps, for example).
Luckily leaded parts are usually good enough.
Wth adjacent pins for power it'd be convenient to solder an SMD cap right on top of the power pins, next to the package itself, and just leave it in place in between experiments.
Title: Re: Which type of strpboard do you prefer?
Post by: Grumpy_Mike on Oct 24, 2018, 08:28 am
Yes but a lot of modern chips have power and ground next to each other or facing each other. For the chips that don't there is less of an advantage using SMD capacitors but if you make the impedance to to the wire side it is likely to be better than a leaded part.

My prefrance is to have a ground track next to the power pin and solder the capacitor from the scocket pin directly over to the ground track. This can fit under the chip and not use up a hole row.

Title: Re: Which type of strpboard do you prefer?
Post by: Watcher on Oct 24, 2018, 12:15 pm
One thing that I ve noticed is that when circuits get more complex with many interconnections and wiring, stripboard prototypes are hard to debug once things don't work as expected.

You are never sure if the reason is a short /bad / wrong connection or the design itself.
Title: Re: Which type of strpboard do you prefer?
Post by: Paul__B on Oct 24, 2018, 12:22 pm
You are never sure if the reason is a short /bad / wrong connection or the design itself.
Better than "solderless breadboards" then!  :smiley-roll:
Title: Re: Which type of strpboard do you prefer?
Post by: MarkT on Oct 24, 2018, 12:36 pm
One thing that I ve noticed is that when circuits get more complex with many interconnections and wiring, stripboard prototypes are hard to debug once things don't work as expected.

You are never sure if the reason is a short /bad / wrong connection or the design itself.
The phrase "close visual inspection" springs to mind - always worth doing.
Title: Re: Which type of strpboard do you prefer?
Post by: Grumpy_Mike on Oct 24, 2018, 01:13 pm
Better than "solderless breadboards" then!  :smiley-roll:
Yes quite.

With a solderless bread board you know you have a bad connection, so the first step in debugging is to jiggle the components up and down.