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Topic: greatest hit in madness: Copyright claimed on price list (Read 2782 times) previous topic - next topic

dally

my cognitive comprehension is still shocked by what happened on ebay

There's no such thing as an outrageous price, otherwise, by that definition, everything on ebay ever sold was done so at outrageous undercost while everything on dealers ever sold was done so at outrageous overcost

That's a good theory in business, you pay for services, brand, warranty, etc, and you know, an item is only ever worth what someone is willing to pay, amazes me that some people still persist in claiming that somehow items have any kind of objective value.

Anyway sometimes people on ebay are willing to for too outrageous underprice even for ebay standards, and I got tired of so many people moaning about my pricing, just because *they* want stuff to be cheap, while at the same time the same people ask much higher prices themselves when they're trying to sell things. You know, people are willing to attempt underprice when they do their bid, while they are willing to attempt overprice when they fill their auction price.

Consequently I wanted to grab and report in my auction a few lines from the price list of a few dealers, just to compare, and it happened that one of these dealers (which happened to have an account on ebay, they buy from ebay, underpriced, they sell out of ebay, overprices, they call it "profit") claimed they didn't authorized the use of a part of their price list, that was a completely violation of Copyright (so, that it's a new hit for me, never thought one could have the Copyright even on fudge paper) , therefore I got a long talk with ebay's henchmen in black, as result auction first suspended then closed, and It seems I am the black sheep.

oh, and - "it was a question of fairness, not promotion" - I was said, because I was indirectly promoting that mustard captain, and their motivations, briefly summarized in "We don't put mustard on our candy and we have candy for every sweet tooth! Everything from chocolates to gummy cherries and, of course, our delicious homemade fudge, which is made right here in our shop, they don't come from ebay, it's not a bullshit, look, the price is different, thus, to save our cooking recipe along with candy & homemade fudge, we apply the Copyright on the fudge paper where we happen to have our price list"

I can partially understand those guys, the deal was for a unix workstation and their parts, a few of these parts were listed that high (well, for ebay standards) because they said that the last time someone wanted to buy one from them, they had to buy it from an other dealer (yes, there is a pyramidal hierarchy) for over thousand UKP, and their profit on the deal was barely enough for a day's food.

OK, I understand, even if I wonder ... if it happens once, you can justify your overpriced till the end of time?

Anyway, sadly this is why I've been forced to move away somewhat from dealing with SGI stuff in recent years, because I can't get hold of stuff at a cost level that's worthwhile, if it's available at all, and the warranty risks at these cost levels are becoming scary as heck, including these dudes on ebay, who wants things for the price of a chips bag, and those dudes in the middle, who buys from ebay, and sells outside for their profit.

Nothing wrong, but hey? The Copyright on price list appears to be ... a reason to call the special agent Mulder of FBI.

weedpharma

Copyright covers any original work so using the text as written is an breach. Surely a mention of price cannot be copyright.

Maybe a reference to a "major supplier" rather than specific company name.

Weedpharma

ChrisTenone

Do you have written permission from Ten Thirteen Productions to use the phrase "special agent Mulder"?
What, I need to say something else too?

Etemenanki

Do you have written permission from Ten Thirteen Productions to use the phrase "special agent Mulder"?
He don't need it, cause the correct name is "Moulder", not "Mulder", and the error invalidate the copyright infringement ... ;) :D
"Sopravvivere" e' attualmente l'unico lusso che la maggior parte dei Cittadini italiani,
sia pure a costo di enormi sacrifici, riesce ancora a permettersi.

dally

the correct name is "Moulder", not "Mulder", and the error invalidate the copyright infringement
Touché, typos can actually save your headache from the court case, like a legal technicality

Corollary: if one injects typos ... well, ebay can't touch

muahahahaah we have a solution :D


dally

so .. we have apologies from ebay  :)

I got a PM, I guess that, when dudes on ebay came across like a deranged dog on speed, they had absolutely no idea on what the other dude, the seller, was ranting about his/her Copyright (on his/her price list), but to avoid problems, they decided to suspend and close my auction in order have their investigations, and when they understood they were not the police in Los Angeles who is still investigating a knife reportedly found buried on the grounds of Simpson's estate when it was razed ... well, they decided to give me a gift, therefore I got 20 euro of discount on my next purchase on ebay, and up to the 5% of discount if the price is below 100 euro

my cognitive comprehension is still shocked, but that's just fine :D

Coding Badly

Copyright covers any original work so using the text as written is an breach.
The search phrase is "copyright fair use".


weedpharma

What about songs that have a couple of bars similar to another song? This may be only second in time and a small percentage of the total. This has cost $millions to some musicians.  :smiley-confuse:

It may be OK to refer and quote small sections of a work but how much is "fair use"?

Weedpharma

Coding Badly

What about songs that have a couple of bars similar to another song?
Historically, fair use.  The insanity of claiming copyright ownership over snippets of material is fairly new.  Maybe within the last ten years.

The situation is self-correcting.  At some point, Sony will sue Disney who is suing Paramount who is suing Sony over copyright.  The lot of them will realize the only people left making any money are the lawyers.  At that point they will each call their well-bribed federal representative to demand the law be refined.

But, we are not there yet.  And, we have a ways to go before the pendulum turns.

Quote
It may be OK to refer and quote small sections of a work but how much is "fair use"?
For better or worse, that decision is made by juries.  The rest of us just have opinions about the precise location of the line-in-the-sand.

However...
https://www.google.com/search?q=guidelines+for+fair+use


westfw

I can see copying a price list "verbatim" could be copyright infringement.  It seems a bit obnoxious to complain, but perhaps there is some reason that this is not a common sales tactic...

In the big business world, price lists can be highly proprietary.  After all, the sales force is supposed to negotiate some complex deal with each individual customer.  Competitors prices lists were on the "how to avoid lawsuits" instructions with the "don't ask for it, don't look at it, don't give it to anyone" instructions (it qualifies as industrial espionage, or something.  I dunno; I wasn't a salesperson so it didn't affect me much.)


GoForSmoke

Quote
and you know, an item is only ever worth what someone is willing to pay, amazes me that some people still persist in claiming that somehow items have any kind of objective value.
That seems to be a buyer-centered view.

An object may be sold for less than it's worth but that doesn't make it worth less any more than overpriced junk isn't junk. The BS is in how the market games are played.
1) http://gammon.com.au/blink  <-- tasking Arduino 1-2-3
2) http://gammon.com.au/serial <-- techniques howto
3) http://gammon.com.au/interrupts
Your sketch can sense ongoing process events in time.
Your sketch can make events to control it over time.

Coding Badly

#11
May 15, 2016, 08:58 am Last Edit: May 15, 2016, 09:06 am by Coding Badly
I can see copying a price list "verbatim" could be copyright infringement.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/copyright/cases/197_F3d_1256.htm

If the prices on the list possess a "creative spark" then the list is subject to copyright.

If the prices are copied from others then the list is not.  If the prices are generate by mathematical formula then the list is not.

Assuming I grasp the court's ruling, an essential difference is that CDN tries to predict (guess) what the price should be based on their research and knowledge rather than stating how much money is actually changing hands.  If that is true then a copyright cannot be claimed over a list of actual prices one is asking.  Which means a fleebay price list is fair game.

Yup.  Here it is...
Quote
The prices listed are not mere listings of actual prices paid; rather, they are CDN's best estimate of the fair value of that coin.
Which explains why Best Buy issues DMCA takedowns but does not follow through with lawsuits...
http://arstechnica.com/business/2006/11/8218/

Quote
After all, the sales force is supposed to negotiate some complex deal with each individual customer.
From the salespeople I once knew such prices often possess a huge "creative spark" involving an -OH group and a few folks of the opposite sex with questionable moral values.  In any case, "creative spark" leads to a copyright.

Quote
In the big business world, price lists can be highly proprietary. 
"Proprietary" is a also powerful legal beast but separate from "copyright".


Robin2

It seems a bit obnoxious to complain,
What if the purpose of copying it was to show that the OP's prices were lower than those on the list?

I don't think this topic is appropriate for this Forum (even in Bar Sport) and I don't think we know enough about the subject to be in a position to express views on it.

...R
Two or three hours spent thinking and reading documentation solves most programming problems.

dally

in my ebay auction I wrote

"Just to know the price of a workstation like this:"

followed by a few line of other sellers price list

Code: [Select]

system12 IP30 2xR12@400Mhz 4GB 150GB@15Krpm V12+DCD price xxxx ref xxxxx
system13 IP30 2xR14@600Mhz 4GB 150GB@15Krpm V12+DCD price xxxx rer xxxxx
...


(price and ref=seller/company has been removed, just to exemplify)


ebay has recognized my rights, therefore I am authorized to write a few lines which report other people's public prices without the need to ask them the authorization, I just need to include a ref (web link) to them.


pYro_65

I don't think this topic is appropriate for this Forum (even in Bar Sport) and I don't think we know enough about the subject to be in a position to express views on it.
I guess it the OP is asking for opinions, regardless of our expertise. Sometimes its just good to have a rant, and maybe someone can agree with you, or show you where your reasoning was wrong.

I think its fine, as long as everything stays relatively peaceful.

Forum Mod anyone?
https://arduino.land/Moduino/

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