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Topic: Breadboard Schematics (Read 2 times) previous topic - next topic

PC90

Does anybody know how the neat breadboard schematics used by jeremy blum or in some of the examples on here are developed??

Grumpy_Mike

Fritzing at http://fritzing.org/

But pleas don't use it, those sort of diagrams are crap at communicating what you are trying to do to a grown up.

cr0sh


Fritzing at http://fritzing.org/

But pleas don't use it, those sort of diagrams are crap at communicating what you are trying to do to a grown up.


Rather than unilaterally saying "don't use it", what about encouraging the use of the schematic capture and display portion of Fritzing? While I am sure it has it's own issues, I really think (IMHO - which might be wrong) we as a community should be encouraging the development of Fritzing. It seems to be an almost natural fit for the Arduino. It's learning curve seems much lighter than Eagle, gEDA, Kicad, etc, which should be considered a plus. Being open source and free, that's just icing on the cake.

I do agree that we should discourage the posting of "breadboard schematics", but the nice thing about Fritzing is that it helps to show the inter-relation between the physical breadboarded circuit and the schematic "virtual" representation (while carrying both through to a routed PCB). No, I don't think Fritzing is perfect, nor would it be suitable for extremely complex projects. I do believe it fills a gap; something between pencil/paper/photos and the full-on schematic capture/PCB routing that you see in more "professional" packages.

Just my opinion, of course... :)
I will not respond to Arduino help PM's from random forum users; if you have such a question, start a new topic thread.

Grumpy_Mike

While I do take your point I think one of the most fundamental skills in practical electronics is the translation of a schematic diagram into a physical layout. This is not a difficult skill to learn but can seem insurmountable to beginners because of the infinite number of way you can do this. Beginners often worry about the "best way" to do it. In truth there is no best way and very few obviously not silly bad ways.

I feel a program like Fritzing provides another layer, an other thing to learn and get in the way, another thing to go wrong. And ultimately it is useless dead end knowledge. I feel it is the same as the initial teaching alphabet where we taught kids to learn to read and write with incorrect spelling only to tell them to forget that and learn the grown up way. Many happily forgot but it did permanently screw up a goodly number.

A physical layout diagram is only any good for showing monkeys what to do, it is not going to teach someone anything apart from how to follow a physical layout diagram, and in the end that is useless.

iyahdub

Well, now it is my time of throwing in my 5 cents ( sorry, dont have any smaller change):
We should maybe try to see both sides of the question... Arduino is, for a vast majority just a nice way of interesting younger people into programming, associated with  the natural instinct of of building things and pulling them apart. And has been quite successful at that. hence the wide success of shields, where it avoids that learning curve of the electronics side of things.
There is also quite serious projects and people using it, and to good effect at that, so covers both ends of the spectrum to be honest.
So, if Fritzing does shorten the learning curve for many that dont really have an interest to deepen their knowledge on the electronics side of things more than they have, so be it. Myself can proclaim to be guilty of using it to build a PCB file to be sent to a pressing company on gerber format( but you neither would want to see the schematic tab nor the breadboard as its a ratsnest: and no-im not talking about the line lol).
So, attacking an open source program like Fritzing just for the sake of purist pride is not the way to go.
I know how valuable a schematic is, but for someone coming afresh into the world of electronics, just the immense specs and different values of components is enough to scare them away from the start ( lets give a capacitor as an example where just for basics you have polarized or not, value, voltage limit AT LEAST...This if its an electrolytic! if its a ceramic, etc you will also need to know the codes for the values!!!).
So, dont see nowt wrong with being practical, if that is easier...even if just for a while !!
Anyway- everyone is entitled to  their opinion.
10 LET Loop=Infinite
20 GO TO 10

Grumpy_Mike

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if Fritzing does shorten the learning curve for many that dont really have an interest to deepen their knowledge on the electronics side of things more than they have


Yes the big thing here is the if.

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attacking an open source program like Fritzing just for the sake of purist pride is not the way to go.

If that were true I would agree, BUT in my opinion it is not "purist pride", I believe that programs like this actually do harm to people trying to learn. They would be much better off without it. They would be much better off learning how to do it properly in the first place.

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So, dont see nowt wrong with being practical, if that is easier

My contention is that it is not easier and it leads people astray. One problem is that they never seem to have the right component and so substitute one which inevitable is the wrong one, leading to all sorts of confusion.

Anyway you will notice I did give the OP the information they wanted, it sounds like you would have me hide it from him.

iyahdub

Not at all. I am the one being grumpy here. If he asked a specific question, must have been for a reason. I didnt see him ask which cad prohgram for electronics is the best or our opinion about it- Just which one does those breadboarded images he so much likes.
Regarding the IF: was an hypothetical one, because it does shorten their curve( at least to those interested in the programming side of it with no real interest in following the vast sea of electronics like me and others and even you, it seems).
So, i think its fair to let them do the choice there instead of making them feel bad for it( just like im making you feel bad for doing it eh eh )
Anyway, no hard feelings, i just found it a bit too much of a purist opinion, thats all. All good !!
10 LET Loop=Infinite
20 GO TO 10

DuaneB

Hi,
   You could just use different coloured single strand wire and a craft knife to build your bread board circuits neatly in the first place. It also makes it much easier if you want to transfer a design to permanently soldered strip board.

Take a picture of a neatly laid out bread board and everyone can see what you actually have wired rather than what you think you have wired.

Not the best example -
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-KxIrcYmBxvE/T3iaO5elDeI/AAAAAAAAAS4/YzUyhlgzsPA/s1600/ConnectServo.PNG

Its a lot neater than multi coloured flexible jumpers all over the place and if you stick with a convention like green for ground, red (yellow in my case) for power and white for signals its pretty readable. It takes seconds to measure off a piece of wire, cut it then roll it with the craft knife blade to strip it, it can be transferred straight to strip board for a permanent project or put back in your box for your next bit of bread boarding.

It is of course no substitute for schematics, but if you want help with something you have built, its the best/only way of communicating what you have built rather than what you think you have built.

Duane B.

rcarduino.blogspot.com

markB

This is an interesting discussion....

I have the problem where I'm taking some 10-12 year olds through an introduction to Arduino.
I provided the school with 5 controllers,breadboard on a shield and some basic parts.
We have had 4 x 1.5 hr sessions, and 7 of the 8 brought their own kits, so I've offered a full day tomorrow in the holidays.

Does anyone have some reference material that I can pass onto these guys, to help teach this Schematic to Breadboard.?

Obviously back when I learnt it, microcontrollers disn't exist, and things that had heaters were used.
Fritzing is very useful (when you have limited time to put together the circuit, and teach the examples), but it isn't the end.


Cheers
Mark

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