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Author Topic: Your opinion on piracy?  (Read 19461 times)
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By the way, talking of giving music away for free...
If any of your likjes reggae and dub, here are the several compilations we been ginving away with the best of the new generation of dub and reggae...All killas, no fillas in there.
1st link is the labels website( wich was formed with intention to give away music, by an OUTERNATIONAL collective from UK, Germany, Spain and Postugal, though their members include artists from all over, including china which is quite new to reggae and dub).
2nd link is a sure place to download it as the other links might be off now and then !!

http://dubvibrations.com/

http://www.dub-connection.net/downloads/list.php
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Very interesting discussion indeed. Nick's comment on Turbo Pascal reminds me of how Microsoft condemns piracy about their DOS then Windows and the wide spread of those two operating systems. Think of this for a moment, you are using your own PC at home with a pirated version of MS DOS and you liked it. maybe a lot of your geeky friends talk about their exploits with DOS or else too. What would you say when it comes to equipping your office with a company-paid-all computer for work, or maybe with the entire company's computer? It is a very strange problem isn't it? Large companies can be sued and money be made from law suit or they pay to cover their behinds. Besides, the act of piracy is more of a moral problem than black and white. I think moral standards are different among all of us, since that is not an objective thing. Same goes with laws. The universe didn't decide to ban piracy cause I would have learned that in intro physics, but humans did, probably wealthy ones, not the producers or artists of the products. When China opened its doors to the west, numerous big companies came in to register all sorts of things and the like so they can grab the rights to these things. Well, within the country, some crazy company (and famous one) registered the name of a province as their brand name and raged a war against anyone else using the same name to sell alcohol, well, everybody else making booze in that booze-famous province of course and more. Don't think the person that decided the province name (probably ancient history) could have any share of the booze sale. I think this concludes (with a shaky argument) that money drives laws against piracy and other intellectual property infringements more than anything else. You can like piracy as a way to get stuff for free or get your name out there, you could hate it for the same reason. But until money disappears, keep the rest of us entertained (products or arguments), we'll pay, or else smiley-wink
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Here's another one. Some of you may know that Diablo 3 (the game) was released yesterday. Now even in single player mode you have to "log in" to a central server for some sort of credential validation. I am guessing this is something to do with protecting the game from being pirated.

But guess what? The servers are down right now (possibly, overloaded). So even people who have paid good money, and are honestly sitting at home with their purchased product, cannot use it. There is something wrong here.
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http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/topic,104353.0.html

This poster just came for advice on how to implement a project..

A project for which he linked to an illegal PDF copy of Simon Monk's 30 Evil Genius Projects for Arduino book, which was given to him by his teacher.

Simon's a regular poster here.  I certainly hope he doesn't make his income from writing, because even teachers don't give a crap about literary copyright.  These people are taking book royalties directly out of his pocket.  Let's all hope it's not how Simon feeds his family.  How many copies has that ONE advisor given away?  How many copies of that PDF then are sent around by the students?  Why would Simon waste his time and efforts ever again, KNOWING that people with no talent of their own will steal his work, and in many cases make profit on it behind his back?

But by all means, you have a right to whatever you want, just because you want it.

Why not tell Simon yourself that his work has no value beyond how fast you can copy it?  Here's his site...
http://www.arduinoevilgenius.com/
« Last Edit: May 15, 2012, 04:00:30 pm by focalist » Logged

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Here's another one. Some of you may know that Diablo 3 (the game) was released yesterday. Now even in single player mode you have to "log in" to a central server for some sort of credential validation. I am guessing this is something to do with protecting the game from being pirated.

But guess what? The servers are down right now (possibly, overloaded). So even people who have paid good money, and are honestly sitting at home with their purchased product, cannot use it. There is something wrong here.

I thought you misidentified this post as the recent purchase post. LOL yes I have only got one game between doom 3 and now, a game developed by a very small company maybe in Turkey. I played the trial game and some more but finally broke down and got a license thru amazon. You need to be checked with your S/N number before logging online as a security measure but I bet later versions would check single-player game S/N too. The game is good but my computer is slow (who would game on a 2009 laptop?!) and plagued with trigger-happy team-killing BS players at times. Once in a while I stood at a spot to assess the fight going on and someone on my team walks up to me and slash a sword at me. Otherwise say you killed X and X re-spawn to try to kill you and this goes on but that's ok since you are on different teams.

So Nick, once you can log on, tell us something about the game. I'm mainly interested in the business model.

Do they do in-game purchase like apple's in-app purchase? Say you want a big ax, instead of beating 10,000 minions to get gold to purchase it, you just pay $10 cold hard cash with your credit card and get it instantly. It's a "new" trend I discovered. People used to play for hours and beat Baal time after time to get that magical item with lottery luck.

What is its rating, R or PG13 something like that? (Ok, rated M 17+, just looked online)

Does the USB stick do anything special?

I owned Diablo II a long time ago. It was a very good game. I got it with Diablo I and the expansion of Diablo II for $10 from bestbuy, when they probably think they will never make any sequels. One of my friends played hours at a time with his dialup around 2000. But now they are back again, ah? Even the old games are twice as expensive smiley

I'm definitely not touching that game. Could be very addicting, so you go ahead and let us know what happens smiley

Now back to the IP and piracy issue, it's still all about money, aren't it? I surely hope Simon gets some pay for the stolen work. I'm unable to protect what I write or will write, if, in case, they get kind of popular, so I will hopefully make everyone pay smiley-wink, just out of tax dollar supported national grants, for future open source books and hardware I will make for some educational purposes. Wish me good luck. It's like getting paid up front for creating the content, instead of getting loyalty later, again what focalist mentioned in that photography post. Maybe everyone will feel happier when they get paid to create the content and decide not to ask for money thereafter. I think for some projects/products, this may be an alternative.
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So Nick, once you can log on, tell us something about the game. I'm mainly interested in the business model.

Do they do in-game purchase like apple's in-app purchase? Say you want a big ax, instead of beating 10,000 minions to get gold to purchase it, you just pay $10 cold hard cash with your credit card and get it instantly. It's a "new" trend I discovered. People used to play for hours and beat Baal time after time to get that magical item with lottery luck.

They have a new idea ... a "real money" auction house. In the past people would trade in-game stuff surreptitiously (eg. through eBay) so now they built it into the game. The idea is, you find some cool hear that you personally can't use (eg. it's for a different class of character) so you auction it, either for in-game gold, or real-life cash. I *think* Blizzard takes a cut, not sure. If they do, that's their business model. <checks> ... yes they do. They charge for the listing, and they charge for the actual sale, if any.

Now in a sense that's fair, because some people have time on their hands (eg. kids) and some have money, so if you only have time it seems a bit unfair you can get good gear by playing all weekend, while people who have real jobs, can't afford to spend the time, but  may have a bit of spare cash.


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Does the USB stick do anything special?

Apart from looking cool, it has a copy of Diablo II on it, and you get an unlock key in the box.
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I take the point of entertainment argument. Fair enough, you pay to get entertained. This auction thing, though, is a very slippery slope. If I were Blizzard, I would create a bunch of pretense accounts, load up with unlimited random good gears and try to sell them off like a regular player is selling them. I could also be a hacker and keygen some items to sell off to get real money. It's still ok with your? smiley-wink I think people still sell WOW or other characters off ebay. Very interesting market, just like what they say "you can buy and sell anything".

To think more dark side, a class of players called man hunters, can be created with special gears and enslave others players and auction them off as slaves or ask for ransom (curse you evil thoughts). This did happen in dark and middle ages, right? Then you pay real or virtual money to ransom your virtual character. I wonder if the police would be interested in such cases, where a teenager robs a gas station to get real money to ransom his virtual character from some man hunters. Just thoughts. I'll stop sipping ginger ale.
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http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/topic,104353.0.html

This poster just came for advice on how to implement a project..

A project for which he linked to an illegal PDF copy of Simon Monk's 30 Evil Genius Projects for Arduino book, which was given to him by his teacher.

Simon's a regular poster here.  I certainly hope he doesn't make his income from writing, because even teachers don't give a crap about literary copyright.  These people are taking book royalties directly out of his pocket.  Let's all hope it's not how Simon feeds his family.  How many copies has that ONE advisor given away?  How many copies of that PDF then are sent around by the students?  Why would Simon waste his time and efforts ever again, KNOWING that people with no talent of their own will steal his work, and in many cases make profit on it behind his back?

But by all means, you have a right to whatever you want, just because you want it.

Why not tell Simon yourself that his work has no value beyond how fast you can copy it?  Here's his site...
http://www.arduinoevilgenius.com/

That goes to show...
Doesnt mattter what he does for a living...
Fact is he invested lots of time (which is money) and lots of money as well, im sure, to release it (unless her managed to get someone to do it for him, in which case there will be two people losing money).
So why should he be ripped off his own work, over someone elses profit( and not necessarily financial profit, as theres other ways of profiting from it) who has done nowt to deserve it ?!?.

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For anyone who is interested, you might find this book interesting:

"It is common to argue that intellectual property in the form of copyright and patent is necessary for the innovation and creation of ideas and inventions such as machines, drugs, computer software, books, music, literature and movies. In fact intellectual property is a government grant of a costly and dangerous private monopoly over ideas. We show through theory and example that intellectual monopoly is not necessary for innovation and as a practical matter is damaging to growth, prosperity and liberty."

http://www.dklevine.com/general/intellectual/againstfinal.htm
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It is an ever so difficult subject... Until the law is prepared to deal with it in another manner, we should enforce the laws we have. Any other argument that says the rightful owner should be ripped off  doesnt make sense.
Maybe we should all pay an extra included in the TV licensing( where aplicable) or just pay a fixed tax for music services... Doesnt sound very nice i agree, but maybe then artists losing their money from their works will make more sense.
The thing is, the few people defend music being free dont see them interested in free music at all ( read royalties free or under commons license)...And when that happens, only established names call the crowds... Which tends to be a one off. In that sense the commons license brought a lot to us all... But only in the way of being able to promote a bit better.
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Any other argument that says the rightful owner should be ripped off  doesnt make sense.

Yes, but the other side of the coin is, the rightful purchaser being ripped off.

For example, I bought Diablo 3 yesterday. Paid full price. Have an official box and everything. Even posted a photo of the mascot I got with it. But because of the DRM I can't play it. It took an hour of "server busy" before I could "connect" ... to a server for a single-player game. Then after playing for a while I get random "disconnected from server" during gameplay. But I shouldn't need a server. One quest I tried 5 times and every time got disconnected at the completion, and thrown back to where I was before. Another quest I just can't complete.

This is the consumer being ripped off, not the owner of the digital "rights". But what do they care? I've paid for it. The money's in the bank.

The notion that the owner of the copyright is "in the right" and the purchaser is "guilty until proven innocent" violates various principles of law that we have fought for 1000 years to establish.
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Let me put it like this ...

Say you just bought a Ford motor car. But after taking delivery it took an hour to start it while it tried to "connect to the server" at the Ford company, to validate you were the correct owner.

And then once you did that - and bearing in mind you have better things to do with your life than spend an hour starting your car - it stopped half-way to your destination because it "lost connection to server".

Should your purchase, legally and properly done, be dependent on the strength of the local Internet connection? Or whether the Ford "validation servers" are busy or overloaded? I think not.
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It will never be technically possible to have a system similar to the old one of physical goods. As soon as your dealing with information it all changes. This is a good and a bad thing depending on who you are. Bottom line if you can replicate it without changing the original an infinite number of time's you can forget about wanting to own it in the same way we did before. Maybe this is Jung coming back to bite everyone in the arse. Nobody really owns any idea because our fundamental understanding of the nature of the brain and the way the mind works is wrong.
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Thats why music quality has gone down quite a bit in the last years...
Of course i been sharing my point of view from the MUSIC and music artists perspective. Different industries will have their own quirks related to this issue !!
Like Nick's case !
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Things are getting done a bit more recently- Some examples...
-UK we had the high court rule that BT must remove all links to torrent sight Newzbin2.
-At the same(around November last year) time France’s President Nicolas Sarkozy announced that they want to Tax ISPs to fund music, as well as add streaming to their three strikes law (*GOOD IDEA !!! has to be a massive tax off course, so that they will be forced to pass the cost to the consumer...Maybe then everyone starts to see it as an EVERYONE PROBLEM instead of just a musicians problem...*sarcasm lol).
-Australian ISPs came out yesterday and announced ISP’s volunteered to police piracy.

All this happened within a couple of months last year.
More work is being done. Theres even authorities booking time on recording studios, even home made ones that  make their services available for mastering, producing, recording etc and catch them red handed with their DAW pirate copies... Needless to say most of their gear is seized and used to start paying their debt to( lets say as an example) Steinberg, as Mr.X had a Cubase pirate copy.
More and more cases of P2P users are being caught in the UK, ending up paying nasty sums for the average Joe...Most cases, its their parents who end up paying, as its their responsibility.

So, slowly things getting in shape... So, goes to show, at least regarding music, games, etc the law is interpreted as always been.


PS- dont read too much into my random sarcastic comments here and there, as they supposed to be funny actually and not for real as you might think at first !!
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