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Author Topic: Is Arduino Due coming?  (Read 24910 times)
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I think there is a lot of people who prefer to re-use as much as possible of what they currently have before they have to throw everything away.. Our current Eth and Wifi shields, to mention two, work with the Due as they are able to detect and adapt to the whatever voltage the main board is operating at.

But in reality how much shield re-use will there really be? (I'm guessing not much)
There are many things that will prevent existing shields from being used.
- 5v outputs driving the Arduino input pins
- depending on certain alternate being functions on certain pins
- Current demand on Arduino output pins
being some of the biggest issues.

Normally when electrically damaging incompatibilities exist,
connectors/pinouts/headers are changed to ensure that such devices
are never allowed to be connected to each other.

Just my opinion but preserving the existing header layout is creating a much
bigger problem than it is trying to solve.
It now makes the selection of which shield to buy/use no longer simple as there
will be shields that will plug into the DUE that can damage it.
Not good for newbies and less technical users who will tend to have the view
that "if it fits" it must be ok.

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Making the board 5v tolerant would have made the it way too expensive.
Ah. Finally, A definite answer on the 5v tolerant question.

Too expensive for whom? The naive user that blows up his DUE or schools that have
students blowing up DUE boards when trying to use an  incompatible shield may not
think the money saved for this lack of protection on DUE was worth it.

There are other 32 bit MCUs out there that are 5v tolerant that would not
have incurred the additional cost that might have been better suited
for this type of environment.

--- bill
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Making the board 5v tolerant would have made the it way too expensive.
Too expensive for whom?

Too expensive for what the developers want to sell it for.
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Yet another article about the arrival DUE on Monday:
http://www.wired.com/design/2012/10/arduino-due/
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Code:
An audio library for the Due is also being released, coupling onto the Due’s ability for wav file playback.

I got super excited when I saw this.
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Due retail packaging sighted by ‏@HamburgMakers:



* A5kCKDjCYAMQKub.jpg (62.15 KB, 600x498 - viewed 30 times.)
« Last Edit: October 20, 2012, 02:49:30 pm by Nantonos » Logged

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Only one more sleep smiley

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Yet another article about the arrival DUE on Monday:
http://www.wired.com/design/2012/10/arduino-due/

And so the shield compatibility problem begins. Note the first sentence in the below, does that sound like a beginner might think any present should he might own will work ok with the new Due? Later it tries to explain that all shields may not indeed work with a Due or some can even cause damage, but it's certainly not a crystal clear to this reader what is trying to be explained. However this a article from Wired so not sure if the source is from Arduino or just the writers attempt at an explanation? Anyone ever see an official arduino R3 spec? I don't recall seeing one published, although I'm assuming they means new shields should have that mating connector pin and read the voltage present on the new IOref pin to determine is it's a 3.3vdc signal meaning the controller the shield is attached to is operating at that voltage. Older controllers will not have that pin so no voltage will be sensed by a connected shield board.

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The Due will continue to work with all Arduino shields — add-on boards and circuitry like motion sensors and LED light arrays — that conform to the official Arduino Revision 3 layout. However, the Due operates at 3.3V whereas AVR-based Arduinos operate at 5V, meaning some third-party shields that don’t follow the R3 specs to the letter may not be compatible, depending on their voltages. It also means those looking to use the Due in existing applications should adjust their voltage or risk damaging their board.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2012, 07:10:32 pm by retrolefty » Logged

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And so the shield compatibility problem begins.
Yep, we live in interesting times.

Brace yourself for a lot of "Is my Due bricked?, all I did was plug in the XYZ shield and now nothing works" questions.

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Anyone ever see an official arduino R3 spec?
Someone just asked that on another thread, I said I don't think such a thing exists, at least not available to the public. Who needs documentation when you have the source code and the Eagle design files right smiley

All the Arduino stuff really should be properly documented. I volunteer someone else to do it.
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« Last Edit: October 20, 2012, 07:32:27 pm by Graynomad » Logged

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And so the shield compatibility problem begins.
Yep, we live in interesting times.

Brace yourself for a lot of "Is my Due bricked?, all I did was plug in the XYZ shield and now nothing works" questions.

Quote
Anyone ever see an official arduino R3 spec?
Someone just asked that on another thread, I said I don't think such a thing exists, at least not available to the public. Who needs documentation when you have the source code and the Eagle design files right smiley

All the Arduino stuff really should be properly documented. I volunteer someone else to do it.
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Rob


Well from the official Uno Rev3 board discription there is this section:

Quote
Revision 3 of the board has the following new features:
1.0 pinout: added SDA and SCL pins that are near to the AREF pin and two other new pins placed near to the RESET pin, the IOREF that allow the shields to adapt to the voltage provided from the board. In future, shields will be compatible both with the board that use the AVR, which operate with 5V and with the Arduino Due that operate with 3.3V. The second one is a not connected pin, that is reserved for future purposes.

But again I don't think that is a easy for beginners to understand statement/specification, and therefore the burden now falls on the shield manufacture to now state which arduino boards their shields will work with and which might damage a Due board. People selling Due boards may also have to be pretty specific about what shield types can or cannot be connected to the Due. I would not be happy with the arduino folks if I was in the shield selling business. There are going to unhappy sellers of both shields and Due boards facing newby customers asking for refund or replacements on their newly purchased Due boards.

Lefty
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Well from the official Uno Rev3 board discription there is this section:
That's the sort of thing I refer to, it's not a spec, it's a general description.

pins that are near to the AREF pin
Where?

the IOREF that allow the shields to adapt to the voltage provided from the board
How?

AFAIK the only drawings that show the shield dimensions are those produced by users (myself included).

As I said in the other thread, nobody is getting paid to do proper documentation and few people have the time so I guess it will never happen.

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If I was selling shields, I'd be placing big disclaimers on my webpages for each shield


This is a 5V shield! Will NOT work with an Arduino DUE! Tested to work with Arduino Uno, Mega1280, Mega2560, and Leonardo. Connecting this shield to your Due may result in damage to your shield and/or your Due, and will void your warranty!


That should reduce the number of credit card chargebacks by at least 10%. Who needs IOREF?  smiley-wink

More seriously, plugging a board designed for 5V onto a 3.3V board will most likely result in the shield simply not working due to undervoltage, rather than actually harming either the shield or Due. The exception might be the IO shields that require higher current and have their own power in connector, and are designed to supply power via backfeed to dev boards on the Vcc pin. Unless it turns out the Due has some built in protection like a zener circuit or something, the result could be smoky.

Any other specific failure modes anyone can think of?

Edit: OK, just thought of another one myself. If a AVR designed shield tries to draw more current on an IO pin (up to 40mA) than the Due is rated for, more smoke.

Prima facie it would appear the Due itself is much more likely to be damaged than the 5V shield.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2012, 10:00:49 pm by pico » Logged

WiFi shields/Yun too expensive? Embeddedcoolness.com is now selling the RFXduino nRF24L01+ <-> TCP/IP Linux gateway: Simpler, more affordable, and even more powerful wireless Internet connectivity for *all* your Arduino projects! (nRF24L01+ shield and dev board kits available too.)

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Many shields, sensor boards,  and external i/o boards that I've seen use
active components that tie into the +5v power pin for their power.
If the +5v power pin on DUE is still +5v (the pictures I've seen so far have it labeled as +5v),
then that means all kinds of shields and devices have the potential to create problems for DUE.

For example, those shields that use +5v and drive any outputs back to
the MCU pins, those outputs will usually be +5v which will be too high for the DUE.

Then there are many devices like TTL Async serial devices, SPI,  and I2c devices that also
use 5v for their circuitry and will drive +5v back to MCU input pins.
Then there are sensors, like the popular HC-SR04 ultrasonic ping sensor,
and a slew of "electronic brick" sensors  and i/o boards that use +5v input voltage and drive
output pins at that voltage.

Then there are passive shields that do no harm by themselves like the "Sensor Shield" but then
depending on what is hooked up to it, it has the potential to do harm because the voltage
provided to each of the sensor headers and connectors is +5v.
In that case, whose at fault?
The sensor in some cases could have run at 3.3v but the shield provided +5v,
however the +5v came from the DUE and the DUE can not handle the 5v inputs.

Even some passive shields have a pullup on the RESET line back to +5v.
(Not sure if that would be an issue for DUE)

So it isn't just 5V shields that will have issues and the potential to blow up DUE pins.

--- bill

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Hmmm, release must be imminent. Geez, wake up Italy...  smiley-razz
I'm quite interested to see the new IDE and code base.

As for the shield problem, plenty of hardware/software nerds here, why not start a community developed voltage tolerant shield just for plugging any voltage shields in, maybe add a few lasers too.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 01:27:23 am by pYro_65 » Logged


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08:45 in Europe.
http://www.arduino.cc/ shows a picture of an Uno and some four-day-old twitter feed.
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Hi,

  Waiting, waiting, waiting ...

EDIT: I wonder if we will have to wait until the US is up and about ?

Duane B
« Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 02:03:28 am by DuaneB » Logged


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