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Author Topic: What's with the response to Sandy's victims ?  (Read 6252 times)
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villainize

I see those "victims" more as blood sucking leeches that you cannot get rid of.

It is never fair for them to own up to their own decisions. Fairness to them is really to take money from others and put it into their own pockets.

The democracy they practice is nothing more than three wolves voting to eat that poor rabbit. 100% democratic, and 100% wrong too.
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Yes, you should take your money and leave. Find a nice totalitarian country you can be happy in.

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I'm amazed at how right wing the world is becoming
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Perhaps you disagree with the role of government as established EVEN BY STATE MILITIAS (also known as the National Guard):

http://www.arng.army.mil/Pages/Default.aspx
http://www.arng.army.mil/aboutus/history/Pages/ConstitutionalCharteroftheGuard.aspx

Quite obviously you've never been through a natural disaster or other event which you cannot prepare for or handle.  Some folks are not so lucky.

Providing for the Common Defense (which also includes domestic disaster response) and General Welfare of the nation.  For ourselves and our posterity.  Sound familiar?  It's the Preamble.  We've got this funny little document kicking around which describes the role of government, the levying of taxes to support those roles, and all that fun stuff.  It establishes at least basic protections should be provided to ALL the populace based upon a series of taxes levied upon the citizens.  This is fair because those members of the populace that prosper do so by use of the public infrastructure and private work and patronage of the citizenry at large.  Accumulation of wealth comes with a responsibility to repay the society which provided the circumstances and structure (this country) that allowed the wealth to be created.  General Welfare and Common Defense.  Because not everyone gets lucky enough to avoid tragedy, and we as nation believe that we are strong enough to help our citizens in times of emergency. 
« Last Edit: November 25, 2012, 03:55:25 am by focalist » Logged

When the testing is complete there will be... cake.

Pittsburgh, PA, USA
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We have sanctioned trajedies any more. Whole areas of people whose water is poisoned and land wasted because of what's under it.

We've turned from the original country into a winners-take-all game of Monopoly except in the last 30 years that's gotten crossed with Musical Chairs as tax law and free trade have made exporting jobs steadily more profitable for the few at the expense of the rest.

My not favorite part is how many of the cheerleaders call themselves Christians. There's your wolves in sheep's clothing. They should hold services in banks and make pilgrimages to Wall Street.

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Quite obviously you've never been through a natural disaster or other event which you cannot prepare for or handle.  Some folks are not so lucky.

I am sure there are natural disasters that you cannot prepare for or to handle. But you are not seirously suggesting that Sandy is one of such events, right?

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It establishes at least basic protections should be provided

So what are considered "basic"? food? clothing? public housing or a MacMansion for everyone? ...

[/quote]to ALL the populace[/quote]

OK, where is my mortgage principal reduction then? why am I subject to means testing, just because I did the responsible thing of saving up for my retirement or to investment in myself, rather than blowing my savings on some $500/pair shoes or $5000 flat screen tvs?

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based upon a series of taxes levied upon the citizens. 

Yeah, let's levy that series of taxes on ALL of our citizens if ALL of our citizens receive benefits of such taxes.

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Because not everyone gets lucky enough to avoid tragedy,

I am sure I have money in the bank because I am lucky, smiley

Again, wealth redistribution is only fair to those demanding wealth redistribution as long as they are recipients of such redistribution.

You don't think so? Try to tax those folks in the name of wealth redistribution.
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Homes and small businesses wiped out, it will be a while to put things back in order if something else doesn't make it worse.

But when it's banks and/or big business due to their own bad deals, let's start at 12 digits.

Do they make weapons? Make sure they get more than last time, anything else is treason.

Big Oil made trillions in profit? Give them a few billion extra to cover campaign contributions.

Halliburton? Whatever your books say happened, that's what happened, here's the money.

But oh no no no we don't want any redistribution of wealth.

BTW, the poor do pay taxes and fees all the time. Where does the landlord get the money to pay his? Ever heard of sales tax? License or ID card fees? Utility taxes? Gas tax?

What's this $500 pair of shoes? Not the usual at all. Nor the $5000 flat screen. Some may but the stereotype is just as lame as the jerkwad that uses it.

Let's hear the one about the 10 men who eat at a restaurant and the 1st one gets hit with 56% of the bill. It leaves out a few details like who eats gourmet while being entertained in the private suite of privilege and who eats cheese sandwiches at a small table next to the restroom door.

Not to mention how when the country's in a mess, who by far and beyond get drafted and even in peacetime fill the enlisted military positions? Or to put a finer point on it, whose children get to die for the security of the privileges they never had?

Instead of managing the problem they helped make many times worse over the past 3 decades, the GOP operates on a "get rid of them" view while espousing to be the party of responsibility. Responsible to their big campaign contributors, not the country and people they exploit.

If stimulus was evil in 2009 then why was the even bigger stimulus package of 2008 good? Or the other Bush stimulus packages? Oh yeah, GOP never says anything the GOP does is wrong even if when the DEMS do it The World Will End.

If tax cuts makes jobs then please explain how in 11 YEARS since the big 2001 cut there have been less and less jobs with 2007 and 2008 taking the US into a depression?

GOP is party of denial and bad math. Also the Hate and Fear Groupthink Party.
That and their lunatic fringe base is why they lost the election and their best sitting members.

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I'm amazed at how right wing the world is becoming
Y'know, it really isn't. There are real exceptions: the Russians have moved right in response to the anarchy that followed the collapse of the Soviet empire. And some that are portrayed that way, but really aren't, like some "Arab Spring" countries that are only advancing to 18th- or 19th-century (semi-)theocracies instead of leaping to the 21st century pluralist liberal democracy that many hoped for.

Every day, all around the world, people who previously just rolled over for authoritarianism are dying to get rid of it, or to resist those who would (re)impose it. Sometimes against the very same odds that made it seem "futile" before. Even the Chinese are inching (or maybe just millimeter-ing) away from it.

In the U.S., we've developed something of a dip in the bell curve as more on the right have shifted to the extreme, but overall left-right mix hasn't changed much on social and economic issues. There's been some drop in the resistance to encroachments on civil liberties in response to 9/11, but that spans the whole spectrum.

The right wing has gotten more visible, thanks to cable, talk radio, and the net. And it's temporarily gotten more powerful, thanks to its takeover of the GOP.  But simple demographics guarantee that that will pass, and the GOP will either moderate, or go the way of the Federalist Party.
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Not to mention how when the country's in a mess, who by far and beyond get drafted and even in peacetime fill the enlisted military positions? Or to put a finer point on it, whose children get to die for the security of the privileges they never had?

Nice rant and glad you are firmly a fanboy of one side of the great cultural divide this country is in. By the way the Military is 100% voluntary, there hasn't been a draft in effect for almost 40 years, but don't let facts get in the way of a good class warfare battle.  smiley-wink

Lefty
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Draft or not, military service is the main route out of the hood, as I know very well.

Where do most of the soldiers that guard the precious privileges and foreign assets come from?
But oh yeah, they get paid and have the VA for healthcare when they get out, what a deal!

Sorry Lefty but if you really knew poor, you wouldn't think the draft is all that sucks.

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Draft or not, military service is the main route out of the hood, as I know very well.

And I enlisted in the military in the mid 60s and came from a well to do family. I met people in the service from all walks of life, so what's your point?

Where do most of the soldiers that guard the precious privileges and foreign assets come from?
But oh yeah, they get paid and have the VA for healthcare when they get out, what a deal!

I received a first class education in electronics as part of my military service and it set me up for a very successful and satisfying career is civilian life after those four years. And I consider my decision to enlist in the service one of the best decision I ever made. It may not be the best path for everyone but like so many things in life it is what you make of it.

Sorry Lefty but if you really knew poor, you wouldn't think the draft is all that sucks.

I have no doubt that being poor sucks. Life is not fair and the universe cares none about ones station in life. But that aside there are many many people that start out in life poor and find a way to improve themselves. The military is but one way many have found to be path out of poverty either by the education gained in an single enlistment or by making it a career. And of course there are people born rich that later in life lose it all in poor decisions or just bad luck. I ask again what is your point, that life is not fair? That somehow all people should be equal in wealth? I just think too many typical ideology class warfare battles have left you too wounded to think logically or practical.  smiley-wink

Lefty


« Last Edit: November 27, 2012, 09:00:21 pm by retrolefty » Logged

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My point is that well over half the military comes directly from less than the 'unwanted' half of the population and has so for decades. Where do most of the casualties come from?
I can appreciate that a lot of middle class kids do enlist but when I was there in the 70's they were a minority.

My point is that the contribution of the poor to this nation's security is not devalued but ignored in the neo-Rand view of the neo-cons. It's not the only positive contribution ignored but this is one that is too often paid in blood and is being ignored by people who respect only money.

They should have to man the front lines of battle with their children and grandchildren in the same percent as their wealth protected and then we'll see how fast they cry for war.

As the Firesign Theatre put it: Them, Mostly Them, and not many of Us. And that's why we're here and they're there, so there....
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I find it harder to express logic in English than in Code.
Sometimes an example says more than many times as many words.

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