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Topic: generating a -10v...+10v control signal from an arduino (Read 5133 times) previous topic - next topic

Jonnym

Nov 15, 2012, 04:54 am Last Edit: Nov 15, 2012, 06:01 am by Jonnym Reason: 1
Hello everyone,

I'm trying to build a device to test a proportional valve. This valve requires a 24v input and a control signal that ranges from -10v to +10v. I've read up getting an analog voltage from a pmw signal, and read up on charge pumps to get a negative voltage. But all of this is sort theory, and I don't really understand it fully..... So what attached components would I need to do something like this? Or maybe just a research topic pointer...

Any info would be great and most appreciated.

Thanks
Jon

Grumpy_Mike

Is this +/- 10V signal an input or an output. The body of the post and the title seem to contradict each other.
What sort of resolution do you want?
Basically you need some form of power supply, an op amp or some transistors and some filtering.

Jonnym

Hi Grumpy Mike,

The +/-10v would be an output, it is the control signal going to the valve, originating from the Arduino 

resolution, i would like it to be analog, or fine enough to appear analog. the valve operates full open / full close over a 20v range. 1000 steps seems reasonable  20mv/step?.

would i be stuck to 255 steps since it is going to be tied to the PWM? 

power supply - 2x12v batteries...

this 'tester' i am building would also have an lcd output, theres a bit of math to give me a valve percentage, etc. - this is software stuff.

thanks
jon


jackrae

#3
Nov 15, 2012, 09:56 am Last Edit: Nov 15, 2012, 10:07 am by jackrae Reason: 1
Filter PWM output to produce a smooth 0-5volt analogue signal.  The centre point of your 24 volt battery configuration to be connected to arduino ground.  All OpAmps to be powered by +/- 12 volts.  Feed the 0-5volt analogue to a unity gain OpAmp/comparator with +2.5 volt fixed offset.  This will produce -2.5 to +2.5 volt output.  Now feed this to OpAmp with gain of 4 to produce the required -10 to +10 volt drive signal.    Probably could be done with a single Opamp/comparator but using two makes it simpler to calibrate.

If your PWM filter reduces the 100% signal to less than 5 volts, let's say 4.5, then the 50% PWM value should be 2.25 so you need to alter the 1st stage bias voltage to +2.25 and the output will be -2.25 to +2.25.  By altering the gain of the second stage to 4.44 you get back to the -10 to +10 output.

dc42

Can you point us to a datasheet for the valve? Whether or not you can use a charge pump to derive the negative voltage depends on its input resistance.

You can get more than 255 steps by using 2 PWM pins, if the valve is capable of distinguishing more than 255 steps..
Formal verification of safety-critical software, software development, and electronic design and prototyping. See http://www.eschertech.com. Please do not ask for unpaid help via PM, use the forum.

MarkT

I'm sceptical that a device with a single +24V rail would take a negative voltage on a control input...  Plenty of 0..10V proportional valves out there, but Google doesn't find anything for -10V
[ I won't respond to messages, use the forum please ]

dhenry

It is quite unusual, but not impossible, for a valve to have a control signal below its ground.

So before wasting your time thinking about generating a -10 to +10v signal, make sure that your valve does need such a signal. Chances are that it doesn't but read the datasheet to be sure.

Jonnym

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all the good info. here is a link to the data sheet of the valve.

http://goo.gl/4Xlh8

we have the version that is voltage controlled not amperage controlled.

thanks
jon


dc42

The datasheet says that the input is a differential amplifier. Therefore, one way of controlling the valve is to use two PWM pins, generate a 0 -> 10V signal from each one, and feed them to the inputs. Set one of the outputs to zero (depending on which way you want to move the valve) and the other to 0 to 10V. This requires 2 PWM pins to control the valve, but does not need a negative supply. The attached schematic is one way of generating one 0-10V signal.

Alternatively, only use a PWM pin to generate one of the inputs, and switch the other to 0V or +10V from a digital output pin.
Formal verification of safety-critical software, software development, and electronic design and prototyping. See http://www.eschertech.com. Please do not ask for unpaid help via PM, use the forum.

MarkT


Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all the good info. here is a link to the data sheet of the valve.

http://goo.gl/4Xlh8

we have the version that is voltage controlled not amperage controlled.

thanks
jon




That's not the datasheet, that's a catalog entry.  This is the datasheet (auf Deutsch!) http://www.moog.com/literature/ICD/Moog-Valves-D633K-D634K-D635K-Manual-multi-en.pdf

If my german is good enough its a 0..10V control signal.  But it is _differential_ so you can connect either Ue or Ud to ground and get either sense as (Ud-Ue) is the control voltage (section 3.3.1.3 of the pdf) - anyone got a better grasp of technical german??
[ I won't respond to messages, use the forum please ]

Grumpy_Mike

#10
Nov 15, 2012, 10:35 pm Last Edit: Nov 15, 2012, 10:42 pm by Grumpy_Mike Reason: 1
Quote
anyone got a better grasp of technical german??

No but if you scroll down the data sheet the bottom half is repeated in English!  ;)

So yes it is a differential input. That means the two signals both go from 0 to 10V, it is just that when one is up and the other is down that is a 10V signal but when this is reversed it is a -10V input. But there is not a -10V with respect to ground it is just with respect to the other signal.
Therefore you need two 0 to 10V analogue signals. I would put the PWM first through a transistor to get it in the 0 to 10V range, and then filter it to remove the PWM switching noise. This is simpler than smoothing it and then having to get a linear amplifier to boost it up to 10V.

dhenry

Quote
The attached schematic is one way of generating one 0-10V signal.


That wouldn't work.

dc42

#12
Nov 15, 2012, 11:41 pm Last Edit: Nov 15, 2012, 11:55 pm by dc42 Reason: 1
Ignore dhenry, he likes saying things won't work but doesn't provide any justification for his opinion, because he hasn't any.
Formal verification of safety-critical software, software development, and electronic design and prototyping. See http://www.eschertech.com. Please do not ask for unpaid help via PM, use the forum.

be80be

It will work may have to play with it a  little but that's the fun part. low pass and a op-amp and 2 volts above 10 should go 10 to 0 volts

dhenry

Quote
doesn't provide any justification for his opinion


That's called the art of engineering: if you had built your circuit, you would know why it doesn't work.

Something like that is great on paper only.

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