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Topic: Using mosfets to switch low current from a high current gate voltate (Read 2159 times) previous topic - next topic

Suaveman

I had an idea as far as how to interface a 12v led dimmer with an arduino's analog write input, while using a (relatively) high current source, such as a 12v w/w at 1.25a.

Could you wire up a mosfet that takes a 12v pwm signal at 1.25a (well decreasing as the load also connected to it for a 10w led turns on/off and more current flows into that circuit), and switches a low voltage current 5v 40ma signal on /off?

This could either be wired into an arduino, or directly to a buckpuck to dim led's, using those cheap 12v rf dimmers, which unfortunately don't dim @ 5v. I just feel like putting a voltage divider at the output of the pwm dimmer to trim it from 9-12v, down to 0-5v is going to put too much current into the driver, or arduino depending on how you have it wired up. I mean it only needs 40ma, and the pwm is pulsing 1a plus @ 5v.

Is this something i should worry about, or just use a voltage divider to get the 0-5v range i need from a 12v input to the dimmer which would put out 9-12v undivided voltage?

Something tells me putting that much amperage into an anduino or buckpuck's 0-5v control is just a bad idea. Thus the idea to use mosfets at the end of the pwm to switch the low current 5v voltage sources already provided by arduio's and buckpucks, the way it was meant to be done.

MarkT

Can't follow that.

Explain exactly which devices you are talking about (links to datasheets always a good idea), and draw your proposed circuit - might
then be able to understand your description.
[ I won't respond to messages, use the forum please ]

dhenry

Quote
Using mosfets to switch low current from a high current gate voltate


You have understood a subject matter if you can articulate it in a jargon-free way.

That would have been a sign of sophistication.

Suaveman

#3
Dec 01, 2012, 09:43 am Last Edit: Dec 01, 2012, 09:45 am by Suaveman Reason: 1
alright forget all the above. i want to use a pwm device operating at 12v, 3a max current, to switch a 5v logic out voltage from an arduino to an analog pin. Using the pwm to turn on/off mosfets as a electronic switch for the 5v + to analog input in.

inessence, how mosfets are currently used, switching high currents via pwm on/off signals, with low voltage/amp signals to trigger the gate acivation, can that be done inversely?

to switch a high voltage/amp input 12v (0-3a amp pwm dimming) (to a mosfet) to get low current 0-5v pwm for an arduino analog input by pwm switching the mosfet gates turning the 5v (40ma gate on/off to get 5v at a low current.

The parts to be used, would be a 12v sla agm bank, ran theough a sepic limiting input current @3a tuned to 12v. 12v to pwm rf dimmer, to switch mosfets closing/opening gates for a 5v 40ma analog logic voltage/gnd. Since its pwm, you get 0-5v 40ma at 0-100 dimming.

wire that to  your arduino and dim multiple bukpucks via analog write to digital pins. instead of using a pot voltage trimmer, putting a high current 0-5v analog input to the arduino board. I dont feel comfortable pushing that kind of current in.

all i want to do basically, is is a rf pwm dimmer to switch mosfets on/of that open close the 5v/analog inpt pins on an arduino for 0-5v dimming.

Is ths easier to decipher?


Grumpy_Mike

Quote
Is ths easier to decipher

Sorry no, it sounds all mixed up.

Do you have a 12V 3A capable PWM signal? Is it driving anything else? Why do you want to put it into an analogue input because all you will measure is 5V or 0V.

If you have a 12V signal you can drive a single transistor to switch a logic input with the collector to the input, emitter to ground, base though a 10K resistor to your signal and enable the pull up resistors.

retrolefty

Quote
Is ths easier to decipher?


Not a bit better, just longer. I get you want to obtain some kind of feedback measurement value to an arduino to (possibly) control additional pwm devices based on what a master one is running at? Perhaps a block diagram drawing would help us, and possibly instead of how you want to perform a given task, first explain what the final results are. There may be a much simpler way to have the same outcome then what you are imagining.

Lefty

Suaveman

#6
Dec 27, 2012, 07:37 am Last Edit: Dec 27, 2012, 07:43 am by Suaveman Reason: 1
What i'm thinking, after giving this some thought, is as follows-

Use the 9v input supply for the arduino to power a sepic converter to give me 12v dc cv to power the pwm dimmer. Take the up to 12v pwm out from the dimmer, and use this circuit to allow it to take the pwm 12v, and give a linear 0-5v out for the analog in-

http://playground.arduino.cc/uploads/Learning/Level_shifting_4_arduino.pdf

The second optoisolator one.

The question i have, is regarding resistor values, or potiohmeter values for a (lets say 9v 1a ac/dc wallwart, or a current limited dc/dc sepic), to power the pwm dimmer and arduino with minimal power loss to heat in the resistors to limit the current draw from the ardiunos dc supply (9v 1a) that powers the 12v dimmer, and where to put them (IE before the sepic, inbetween the sepic/pwm dimmer, etc).

Since it needs very little current at the input of the pwm dimmer, but 12v regulated (where the sepic comes in handy, but i'd rather use resistors than a more expensive current limited sepic), whats the most effecient resistor values to use, and where in the circuit to put them to cause the sepic drawing from the arduino 9v input, to only pull 100ma max, but allow 12v cv to the dimmer?  100ma, derived from some effeciency loss at the converters, power for the rf pwm dimmer and 40ma as the usual current when using the 5v+ arduino pin for analog input applications.

IE, i want the dimmer circut to be current limited to ~100ma (give or take, i'd like to use a pot if thats too high/low after testing) when drawing from the 9v 1a dc source that powers the arduino. My thinking is without current limiting, i would be sinking all the supplys amps into the dimmer/optoisolator 5-12v -> 0-5v circuit, when only 100ma max is necessary, to power the rf pwm dimmer, effeciency loss at the sepic, and the 40ma for the 0-5v to the arduino. Since this is something that may be drawing from backup lead acids at some time, i'd rather it use as little wattage as possible for the pwm/optoisolator 12v to 5v conversion, and theres no point wasting power anyway, regardless of a ac/dc source, or dc battery source. I just want it to be as effecient as possible.

Basically, what resistor values/pot values and where to put them in the described circuit is what i need help with. I can draw up a complete circuit diagram including the sepic and pwm dimmer if that makes my question easier to understand, just let me know.


Suaveman

After looking at my mega 2560's input voltage specs, it looks like i can just use 12v to power the board, and eliminate the sepic for the dimmer. So all i need to figure out, is how to limit the current that flows through the 12v pwm dimmer, and its ~5-12v output that gets converted to linear 0-5v using the optoisolator circuit. Thats simpler and more effecient than adding a dc/dc converter to bump 9v up to 12v for the dimmer, when drawing the power input for the dimmer from the arduino input supply.

Grumpy_Mike

Sorry but it is not clear what you want to do. You keep using the word sepic, I have no idea what this means, it is not English.
Please post a link to the PWM dimmer you have and say in simple words what you are trying to do not how you think you want to acheave something.

dhenry

Quote
What i'm thinking, after giving this some thought, is as follows-


Sounds like you want to read the 12v pwm's ouput (either in analog or digital format). If that's the case, your solution is way too complicated. You can read the duty cycle fairly easily, using the capture feature. Or you can run the 12v pwm through a low-pass filter and read its analog output.

jackrae

If English is not your first language then very well done.  If English is your first language -- bl**dy poorly done.

Why not draw a little picture of what you think you want to do.  A picture is worth a thousand words

DirtBiker

I think sepic is supposed to be SEPIC, an acronym for Single-Ended Primary-Inductor Converter.  However, other than that, I'm also lost.  Please provide  schematic or block drawing.
Dirt Biker

brass

Do you realize that a "High Current" source means it is only capable of supplying high current?

A 12V 20A power supply will not "push" 20 Amps through anything it is connected to (unless the resistance is low enough to allow it).   Instead, the 20A is the max current draw available for something like an amplifier or light.

If your 12V input supply is a Constant Current Switching Power supply built for driving LEDs at a constant current (you stated Buck Puck above, unsure if that's what you have, or want to make?).

What is your load (LED, Motor, Powering another circuit, etc)?  Required voltage and required current of the load?   What is your power source?  Available voltage and Available current?

What function would you like the Arduino to perform in between the source and the load? 

Suaveman

#13
Dec 30, 2012, 04:04 am Last Edit: Dec 30, 2012, 04:52 am by Suaveman Reason: 1
the function the arduino would provide is using its pwm digital out to dim a buckpuck via ttl.

The issue is converting a ~6-12v 8a rated rf pwm led dimmer, into something that the arduino can read from an analog input and dim the buckpuck accordingly. Linear translation of that 6-12v into 0-5v is the issue.

SEPIC, a google search could have provided you with an explanation of said acronym.

The reason i worry about the dimmer sinking all the current from the 12v dc source it would be sharing with the arduino is because its designed for led's. I could be wrong and that it follows conventional logic that it only consumes as much current as necessary to provide power for the pwm/rf circuitry, and the optoisolator circuit to get a 0-5v linear signal for the arduino input.

Ill draw up a sketch, and edit this post tonight as far as the circuit.

The basic explanation of what i want to to, is power a mega 2560 and 6-12v pwm dimmer from the same 12v supply, and use the dimmer along with the optioisolator linear voltage converter to take tht up to 12v (really 12v all the time since its pwm), and along with the optioisolator circuit, get a 0-5v analog signal to use as an arduino input to pwm ttl dim the buckpuck, per the diagram on how to do so in its datasheet.

Since the logic of said buckpuck is 5v 0% power, and 0v 100% power the arduino could also switch that so the up/down buttons on the rf remote aren't reversed.  Alternatively just don't use the arduino at all. Just the dimmer/optioisolator and the buckpuck to dim the led, albeit with reversed logic on the remote (down is up up is down) due to the way the buckbuck reads the 5v ref it supplys, and its control pin (short them, and no power flows to the led, put a potiometer in between and no resistance is 0% dimming, 5v flowing, full resistance, or not shorting the buckpucks 5v ref/control and you get 100% power to the led's). Basically just backwards from how most other ttl dimming works.

Edit- Circuit Diagram attached. The only thing i might need to add is a low pass filter to change the digital pwm coming from the dimmer out, to an analog signal. No idea if the optioisolator will work with a pwm digital input.

Do you have a particular dimmer in mind?  It would be real helpful if we knew what specific dimmer it was and why you need it here.

The Arduino can implement any dimming you need and can be programmed to take the dimming control from a variety of sources, such as a simple potentiometer.  Perhaps the dimmer is not needed at all.

It looks to me that you want to use the Arduino to convert between some PWM signal and a 0V-5V variable voltage and possibly do some distribution (send output to multiple LED power supplies).  Is this more or less correct?

Sorry if this sounds patronizing, but it would be great if we could get an explanation without all the jargon.  It is clear that you may not understand a lot of this yourself, so if you told us what input/action you want and what output/response you need in plain terms it might help a lot.  For example, "I want to be able to turn a knob and have the LEDs get brighter or dimmer depending on which direction I turn the knob" or something that more aptly describes what you are after.

Also, the Arduino cannot give you analog out.  The best it can do is PWM, which would have to be filtered and buffered to give you a real analog signal.
Facts just don't care if you ignore them.

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