Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
Author Topic: When is Due is due?  (Read 3713 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Turku
Offline Offline
Full Member
***
Karma: 1
Posts: 228
Arduino rocks
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

Hi

I want to buy a Due board. Is there any info about when the next lot will be available. Is the hardware going to be the same as before? I ask because I want to know if I find the board elsewhere will it as good as the new ones.

I just had to this subject line.
Logged

0
Offline Offline
Newbie
*
Karma: 0
Posts: 23
Arduino rocks
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

I bought two from Arduino with the help of my friend.
However, the board is different from the eagle file in official website. The eagle file is 4-layer pcb. The actual board is 2-layer.
I found many producers begins to copy the board. But it is easy to distinguish the real and the copy.
The attached pictures could show the difference.
The one on the box is the same with the eagle file
The real board are the one we receive.


* DSCN1203-1.JPG (108.84 KB, 1000x887 - viewed 51 times.)

* DSCN1205-1.jpg (129.63 KB, 1200x836 - viewed 54 times.)
Logged

nr Bundaberg, Australia
Online Online
Tesla Member
***
Karma: 129
Posts: 8601
Scattered showers my arse -- Noah, 2348BC.
View Profile
WWW
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

Quote
The eagle file is 4-layer pcb. The actual board is 2-layer.
What! I know there's been some argy bargy about the posted files not being the actual files, but to go from 4 layers to 2 layers doesn't seem practical. That would be a total re-lay of the board to arrive at an inferior product.

_____
Rob
Logged

Rob Gray aka the GRAYnomad www.robgray.com

0
Offline Offline
Newbie
*
Karma: 0
Posts: 23
Arduino rocks
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

Quote
The eagle file is 4-layer pcb. The actual board is 2-layer.
What! I know there's been some argy bargy about the posted files not being the actual files, but to go from 4 layers to 2 layers doesn't seem practical. That would be a total re-lay of the board to arrive at an inferior product.

_____
Rob
Unfortunately it is true.
Look at the following picture. In the eagle file, there is a chip between the headers. However, actually there is no chip on the board i received. And the chip is gone in the pictures on Arduino DUE product page. The eagle file is 4-layer. But i can't see any symbol on my board indicating this board is 4-layer. All the vias seem go through.


* ss.jpg (76.27 KB, 997x168 - viewed 42 times.)
Logged

nr Bundaberg, Australia
Online Online
Tesla Member
***
Karma: 129
Posts: 8601
Scattered showers my arse -- Noah, 2348BC.
View Profile
WWW
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

Quote
All the vias seem go through.
I could still be 4 layer, many fab houses don't allow blind or buried vias or charge more for them so many (most?) people just use through vias.

We have discussed the movement of that chip and other inconsistencies between the released CAD files and the real thing before. It has never been resolved AFAIK.

_____
Rob
Logged

Rob Gray aka the GRAYnomad www.robgray.com

0
Offline Offline
Newbie
*
Karma: 0
Posts: 23
Arduino rocks
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

Quote
All the vias seem go through.
I could still be 4 layer, many fab houses don't allow blind or buried vias or charge more for them so many (most?) people just use through vias.

We have discussed the movement of that chip and other inconsistencies between the released CAD files and the real thing before. It has never been resolved AFAIK.

_____
Rob
Well, I am not sure if it is 4-layer or not. But i see no reason for this board to be 4-layer. I mean, 2-layer could also work.
Even though Arduino published different eagle file in purpose, i could understand. There are so many copies of Arduino board which infringe Arduino trademark. It is too easy for those factories to make the copies. If Arduino publishes different CAD files, the copy boards become different. For arduino, that is a good way to protect themselves.
Logged

Left Coast, CA (USA)
Offline Offline
Brattain Member
*****
Karma: 361
Posts: 17303
Measurement changes behavior
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

Quote
Even though Arduino published different eagle file in purpose, i could understand. There are so many copies of Arduino board which infringe Arduino trademark. It is too easy for those factories to make the copies. If Arduino publishes different CAD files, the copy boards become different. For arduino, that is a good way to protect themselves.

Which would be fine with me if they did. However they should then clearly state that the Due product is not a true hardware open source product, unlike their prior products? I suspect that is not their intention, but rather just a matter of the published documentation not yet keeping up timely with actual production documentation used.

Lefty
Logged

nr Bundaberg, Australia
Online Online
Tesla Member
***
Karma: 129
Posts: 8601
Scattered showers my arse -- Noah, 2348BC.
View Profile
WWW
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

Quote
I mean, 2-layer could also work.
Yes but 4-layer is MUCH easier to design and the end result is better because of the extra ground and power planes. It does cost more though.

Quote
For arduino, that is a good way to protect themselves.
I would understand as well if that's the case, in fact I floated the same idea some time ago. I don't think anyone here would blame them for trying to have an edge, after all they did all the work. However it's not open source if that's the case.

______
Rob
Logged

Rob Gray aka the GRAYnomad www.robgray.com

Offline Offline
Newbie
*
Karma: 0
Posts: 21
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

Eagle probably only shows 2 layers on the imported file because you're importing it into Freeware EAGLE, which only allows 2 layers.

They may have released it in this way so that the majority of folks could import it into eagle.

My guess is that it is actually a 4-layer board since the imported files do show many shorting traces on the top layer (which are most likely inner-signal layers imported as top layer).
Logged

USA, FL
Offline Offline
God Member
*****
Karma: 14
Posts: 689
A life? Where can I download one of those?
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

I have the [sarcasm]paid version of eagle[/sarcasm] and I can see all 4 layers, Top, Route 2, Route 15, Bottom.  The 2 inner layers are GND and power plain respectively.
Logged

//LiNK

0
Offline Offline
Newbie
*
Karma: 0
Posts: 23
Arduino rocks
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

I have the [sarcasm]paid version of eagle[/sarcasm] and I can see all 4 layers, Top, Route 2, Route 15, Bottom.  The 2 inner layers are GND and power plain respectively.
Hi,codlink
I have a question.
Recently i made an arduino viriation board. I want to offer the source file to users.
I designed it with Altium Designer DXP. Now I am working on Eagle version.
I just want to know, is it good to offer the DXP source file? Or is it better to offer the eagle files after i finish it?
I am not sure if the DXP file could help users since i see eagle seems to be more popular.
Logged

nr Bundaberg, Australia
Online Online
Tesla Member
***
Karma: 129
Posts: 8601
Scattered showers my arse -- Noah, 2348BC.
View Profile
WWW
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

I use Altium but I doubt many prospective users of you board would, so I'd say you should publish Eagle files if you can. Whether or not Eagle can import Altium files I don't know, but if you are happy to re-lay in Eagle that doesn't matter.

______
Rob
Logged

Rob Gray aka the GRAYnomad www.robgray.com

USA, FL
Offline Offline
God Member
*****
Karma: 14
Posts: 689
A life? Where can I download one of those?
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

I think most of us use Eagle, so I would distribute the Eagle files as well.  You could try to find a script that will allow you import into Eagle, but I don't know if one even exists.
Logged

//LiNK

Forum Administrator
Offline Offline
God Member
*****
Karma: 52
Posts: 646
I find plain exciting
View Profile
WWW
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

Arduino distributes the production files of all of its boards.
Everything we do is always open source.
We release the day the board goes on sale the most up to date file available to us.
Full stop end of story.

Sometimes the factory has to make variations to the board to accommodate issues that happen during the production process (suddenly a part is no longer available, they need to move a part to make it easier to mount or they need to optimise the layout for a new testing rig. these are normal events in a production envirorment especially when production ramps up)

In this case it takes us a few days (or weeks when the factory forgets to tell us they made changes) to update the files distributed online.

Even if a file is slightly older than the one in production , it's still open source hardware.

m
Logged

Offline Offline
God Member
*****
Karma: 32
Posts: 830
View Profile
WWW
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

In this case it takes us a few days (or weeks when the factory forgets to tell us they made changes) to update the files distributed online.

So when do you expect the factory will provide you with the 2-layer design files so you can release them to all of us?

And did the factory really forget to tell you they had changed from the 4-layer board design you provided them to a 2-layer design for actual production? This would strike me as quite a remarkable thing.

The first inkling something had changed must have been the invoice in that case -- it must have been a pleasant surprise to see the price adjustment to reflect the significantly cheaper manufacturing process.  smiley

And then of course there is the mystery of those RTC crystals just disappearing entirely from some production boards, but not others. I guess the factory must have much more discretion about such things than I would have guessed. 

In the meantime we have the curious situation where a board is advertised as "open hardware source", and yet at this point in time no-one (including the original board designers) can get hold of the actual design files used for the actual production version(s). An interesting (but hopefully not long-lived) state of affairs.


   
Logged

WiFi shields/Yun too expensive? Embeddedcoolness.com is now selling the RFXduino nRF24L01+ <-> TCP/IP Linux gateway: Simpler, more affordable, and even more powerful wireless Internet connectivity for *all* your Arduino projects! (nRF24L01+ shield and dev board kits available too.)

Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
Jump to: