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Topic: Closed (ouch) or Open Hardware new Uno's ? (Read 15323 times) previous topic - next topic

Eight

#30
Sep 27, 2010, 11:37 am Last Edit: Sep 27, 2010, 11:40 am by Eight Reason: 1
I didn't start out this way... but I'm actually beginning to share some of EH's concerns now.

Have I missed something here? Are Arduino saying that board-makers can NOT use the new Arduino vID/pID combination, and must have their own?

I suppose board-makers could always keep to the old FTDI-based design (since they've said the IDE will always support anything appearing on a serial port).

Eight

Just a thought: any people here who'd consider chipping (pun intended) in to buy a vendor id for this community? If, for example, one hundred people put in $20, we could maybe (would need to check the regulations) buy a vendor ID and divide the pIDs amongst the participants - perhaps allocating spares to community endorsed/interesting projects?

CowJam

Quote
Slotting in a locked-identifier magic USB chip solution with a potential $2000 USD barrier of entry to anybody just for a USB VID.


Perhaps a group of clone makers could band together to purchase one vendor ID.  Hell, we could even have a whip round.

If Arduino themselves aren't prepared to release PIDs I don't see that the only other solution is for everyone making a clone board to go out and spend $2k on a VID.

A decent business model for Arduino may be to release one PID for non-commercial use and then sell PIDs for commercial use. I realise this might not fit with your open-source, open-use ethos but I think it's a fair way for Arduino to get some benefit from commercial solutions and, of course, nobody would have to purchase a PID. Etiher they could purchase their own VID, or grab a PID from the open-VID I suggested.

mowcius

Well I have something in mind for all this...

We'll have to see how the new IDE works with all this and what can be done then.

Mowcius

Eight


mowcius

Quote
Just a thought: any people here who'd consider chipping (pun intended) in to buy a vendor id for this community? If, for example, one hundred people put in $20, we could maybe (would need to check the regulations) buy a vendor ID and divide the pIDs amongst the participants - perhaps allocating spares to community endorsed/interesting projects?

Someone had the same thinking as me.

People can raise a few thousand for a single non-open source project, why can't we raise a few thousand as an open source community to get an arduino-type PID...

Mowcius

CowJam

Quote
Great minds think alike.  

And fools seldom differ ;)

Eight

#37
Sep 27, 2010, 11:56 am Last Edit: Sep 27, 2010, 11:58 am by Eight Reason: 1
Sounds like a plan.

But yes, we'd probably need to see how the IDE responds to different vIDs/pIDs to know whether this would work the way we'd like.

*IF* we're reading this whole thing correctly and were able to get a vID as we're discussing, I would hope the Arduino team would ensure the IDE will play ball.

[edit]
Actually... is the IDE open-source? I've never looked. That being true it shouldn't be too hard to get it to work with different USB vendor IDs.
[/edit]

mowcius

So if we got a community VID there would be over 65000 different boards that it could be allocated to right?

That'd be plenty for the whole group of us...

Mowcius

mowcius

#39
Sep 27, 2010, 12:00 pm Last Edit: Sep 27, 2010, 12:01 pm by mowcius Reason: 1
Quote
But yes, we'd probably need to see how the IDE responds to different vIDs/pIDs to know whether this would work the way we'd like.

So 0020 is going to be released today...

Lets wait a week or so until we go ahead with anything. As we are all saying, we need to find out how the whole thing is going to work.

[edit]
Quote
Actually... is the IDE open-source? I've never looked. That being true it shouldn't be too hard to get it to work with different USB vendor IDs.

Yes but it'd be much better if people didn't have to modify something to get other boards to work. A load of people seem to be rather against that.
[/edit]

Mowcius


Eight

I believe so, yes. According to USB.org, product IDs are assigned by the vendor as they see fit.

There's also versioning info in the device descriptors which could (in a pinch) be used to support different devices - but in one driver file.

Eight

I just checked something, Mitsumi (0x03ee) have product ids ranging from 0x0000 (cd-rom drive) to 0xFFFF (bluecore dongle) so it looks like the whole range is ok to use.

CowJam

Quote
Actually... is the IDE open-source? I've never looked. That being true it shouldn't be too hard to get it to work with different USB vendor IDs.


The IDE won't be locked to Arduino-only.  While I can't be bothered to go and check, Massimo said that arduinos would pop up as genuine arduino and everything else wouldn't.

I've realised that this discussion really isn't relevant to me.  As a hobbyist rather than any kind of supplier this is for someone else to sort out.

If people do decide to go for a community VID I'll happily chuck some cash in but otherwise I don't really care.

iwritecode

I can understand the Arduino team here... but I hope it doesn't backfire on them...

There are a number of manufacturers who make *duino like boards, and in policy with the Arduino license, name their boards differently. They do exactly as the team wants, so this should be fine.

Some other manufacturers make boards in violation of the license terms. 'Arduino made in China' and such.

Locking the USB vid will only affect the first group of manufacturers and the hobbyists. The group who already violate the license terms, will copy the USB details without any problems.

The suggested solution provided here, supplying a USB number for clones, integrated into the driver package, would be a very decent solution, which would satify both hobbists and the group of willing manufacturers alike.

My 2 cents... and I really love the changes that were done... although I do share some of the concerns presented here.

mowcius

#44
Sep 27, 2010, 12:10 pm Last Edit: Sep 27, 2010, 12:11 pm by mowcius Reason: 1
Quote
If people do decide to go for a community VID I'll happily chuck some cash in but otherwise I don't really care.

I don't think anyone will chose not to...

Companies like seeedstudio and others who make their own (popular) boards will probably be willing to give something towards this (or maybe they'll just buy their own VID).

I suggest a common 'duino' name for non-official arduino boards or something similar but obviously a specific device ID can be supplied for each board.

Mowcius

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