Go Down

Topic: Closed (ouch) or Open Hardware new Uno's ? (Read 15789 times) previous topic - next topic

Korman

Quote
Now this is going to be the restriction.... what is the point in having the code as open source if you cant implement it?


It depends on your mindset.

If you use the open source design approach to build and expand on a design, changing the VID and PID shouldn't be any problem at all. If you do it for yourself, go an use any numbers you like, nobody cares. A few VID/PID combintations have been released for just such a purpose. Pouf - that problem is gone.

If you want to use the design commercially, getting an unique USB-ID is just one step of many, like getting the CEE (or FCC) approval etc etc. Here it doesn't matter either.

That leaves only the cry-babies who can only wail "gimme-gimme-gimme" to have a problem with this. But they'll complain just as much that the open source schematics don't contain a PCB-maker and the chips presoldered so that cloning the design is completely free to them.

Korman

UltraMagnus

#91
Sep 28, 2010, 10:08 am Last Edit: Sep 28, 2010, 10:09 am by UltraMagnus Reason: 1
Quote
like getting the CEE (or FCC) approval

except that isn't mandatory and CE marking can be by self declared conformity.

Eight

Quote
Now this is going to be the restriction.... what is the point in having the code as open source if you cant implement it?

Well... (since I had similar concerns) as Paul said, if you "clone" the board using the 8u2 chip then we think you're allowed to use the vID/pID combination given to you by the 8u2 chip manufacturer. NOT Arduino's own. That's fair enough if true.

Or if you choose to put in the old FTDI chips instead, there's nothing in the new bootloader that's going to mean you have to write your own one of them. And we know the IDE will still be happy.

So actually... things aren't as half a grim as they looked. People may say a few of us were whinging, but from that we got lots of good info. Information that would have come out anyway... but I like to think we expediated the process. :D

mowcius

Quote
People may say a few of us were whinging, but from that we got lots of good info. Information that would have come out anyway... but I like to think we expediated the process.

I have to agree.

I also think this has been the fastest thread on the forum...  ;)
There were some lengthy conversations on the IRC too  :)

Mowcius

pracas

Quote
But they'll complain just as much that the open source schematics don't contain a PCB-maker and the chips presoldered so that cloning the design is completely free to them.


Seems nice... if there are VID / PIDs available for free use then it should be ok....
Be The Change...

Korman

Quote
if there are VID / PIDs available for free use then it should be ok...


For free use in a laboratory setup only, not for any kind of distribution.

Korman

mowcius

Quote
Seems nice... if there are VID / PIDs available for free use then it should be ok....
Quote
For free use in a laboratory setup only, not for any kind of distribution.

Mowcius suggests raising 2K again.

Presumably if 2k was raised so 'arduino compatible' boards could have their own PID, the arduino team would add in default support for this.
If they didn't then we'd all just modify the IDE anyway.

Mowcius

Eight

Personally, I'd support a community vendor id for the sake of clarity and flexibility.

I saw this yesterday and thought it might be relevant though.

http://support.atmel.no/bin/customer?=&action=viewKbEntry&id=186

Question
Can I use the VID and PID provided by Atmel ?
Answer
Customer may keep the Atmel Vendor Identifier (Atmel VID) and Product Identifier (PID) in their product that integrates an Atmel USB Flash Microcontroller ("Integrated Product") from one Atmel original example subject to the following acknowledgments and/or conditions:
- Customer must execute Atmel's Limited License Agreement (Atmel USB Flash Microcontroller Software Suite) and comply with all terms and conditions.
- Customer cannot apply to USB compliance testing with the USB-IF, therefore Customer cannot use the USB logo for an Integrated Product using the Atmel VID.
- All software is provided AS IS and Customer is responsible to insure the USB compliance of the Integrated Product.
- Customer must integrate the Atmel USB Flash Microcontroller Software and the USB descriptors with no changes apart from:
1-The manufacturer string, which must include the Customer's URL address and finish with "powered by AtmelĀ®": e.g. "www.customer.com powered by AtmelĀ®".
2-The maximum power fields, which must be compatible with the actual power consumption of the Integrated Product for each possible USB configuration.
3- When applicable the Endpoint polling Interval fields can be adapted to the application.
-Customer must insure compatibility with all the features of the Atmel original example if a custom host driver is distributed with the Integrated Product.

They don't say you can't distribute there - but something in the back of my mind is bugging me.

Korman

#98
Sep 28, 2010, 02:38 pm Last Edit: Sep 28, 2010, 02:38 pm by Korman Reason: 1
That stuff reads just like the one from FTDI.

If I understand it correctly it's summed up as: If your USB interface behaves like the Atmel demo application towards the PC and if you don't mess around with the PC drivers, you can use the Atmel VID. That sounds reasonable.

Korman

Eight

Better have a look at this "demo application" then. :D

mowcius

It is unlikely that due to the way it is used in the arduino, the demo application will be suitable.

I still think the community VID is the way to go.

Mowcius

Korman

Why unsuitable? To provide some sort of serial emulation? In the end, the Arduino will be connected with a serial line and known commands, not by magic. What goes over the serial line is beyond the scope of the USB controller.

Korman

westfw

If atmel had brains, they'd allocate a PID for Arduino clones out of THEIR VID space...

mowcius

Quote
If atmel had brains, they'd allocate a PID for Arduino clones out of THEIR VID space...

Hehe yeah but it aint gonna happen  ;)

pracas

Quote
I still think the community VID is the way to go


I second that...

100$ per person should get us their faster... anyone?
Be The Change...

Go Up