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Topic: Please consider using a Installer and Web Updater (Read 4925 times) previous topic - next topic

drjiohnsmith

Hi

msi is windows is it not ?

I think Eried has windows well covered thanks,


tuxduino

The greatness in opensouce is not the fact that anyone can tell the developers what _they_ should do. It's the availability of the code, and the fact that users can download code, improve it and publish it back without asking permission.

If you feel an msi would be a valuable addition to the project and have the skills to implement it, by all means do it and become its maintainer.

:D

drjiohnsmith

must be the time of year tuxduino,

I think windows is covered , Eried seems to do a great job on that,
   
you do seem 'focused' on msi files and windows in your comments,
     which as I say seem to be covered,


tuxduino

I'm not focused on msi (I use linux as my main os). I took it just as an example.

You say
Quote
why not have seperate people responsible for each installer ?
        see what open source can do.


and my answer is: opensource does nothing per se, people do. Opensource is not about telling other people what they should do, but actually doing things (and feeling free to do so).

:)

bperrybap


installer

why not ?

Eried has done a great job for windows,
   I'm certain that the clever people here can make installers for other systems just as easily.

For for many of the other more modern operating systems it isn't necessary
as there is no need to have to do crazy stuff inside the application for installs & updates
like you have to do in legacy operating systems like Windows.
This is because the operating systems have a built in packaging system that handles
installs and updates for all the applications in common and consistent way that
does not require the actual application to be involved with the process.

So I think this is mostly an issue for Windows applications.

And even that problem might finally start to go away if there is a way to use the Microsoft
Widows 8 app store for "free" apps like the "Arduino" s/w.


Quote

    why not have separate people responsible for each installer ?
        see what open source can do.


Open source has already solved this problem.
On the "nix" based systems, which is just about all the other OSs out there
including OSX, a common installer is already provided by the OS
and already exists and works pretty well.

On debian based systems,
you can simply go to the package/software manager and install the "Arduino" package.
In the future, the update manager can notify you of an available update.
There is no work that needs to be done.

What might be useful is to have someone work closer with the repository maintainers
to get them updated with new Arduino releases sooner if there is a desire to push
out the newer Arduino releases sooner.




My view is that an Arduino library installer inside the IDE would be a much more useful
tool. Some kind of interface that would allow users to point at a library and then have the IDE
install the library in the proper location.
This is something that would be useful for all the OS's.


--- bill

drjiohnsmith

Hi

good comments,

I think the library installer you mention has been cracked by Eried in the windows system.

did not know that arduino was in the linux package managent system,
    interesting. I use linux on my servers, centos, I'll have to have a look for a development system for arduino.

have a good new year,

Peter_I

#21
Jan 02, 2013, 12:03 pm Last Edit: Jan 02, 2013, 12:07 pm by Peter_I Reason: 1

What's wrong with unpacking a compressed file and launching an executable ? That's the most cross-platform idiot-proof methods of installation I can imagine.


Absolutely nothing with it!

I think the problem is, that it is too easy!

- download the .zip
- unzip to where you like it to be
- double-click the jolly little symbol to start the program

When you are used to having "wizards" make you perform a lot of funny little rituals, clicking a lot of little buttons and finally presenting you with a "startpage" to tell you that now you have really installed the "Bellshuttomatic2013"..... then this is simply too uncomplicated!
(please do not add complications!)


Basically it resembles:
-open the box
-put device on your preferred shelf
-push on-button


The first time I updated to a new version of the software, it actually took me longer to realize that "it really is that uncomplicated", than it took me to install it.
(There probably is a "To update: This is easy! Download, unzip to preferred place, run "blink" to see that it is working, delete old Arduino-1.x.y folder if you like" instruction somewhere, I just didn't see it  :smiley-red: )
"Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool"

tuxduino

Quote
When you are used to having "wizards" make you perform a lot of funny little rituals, clicking a lot of little buttons and finally presenting you with a "startpage" to tell you that now you have really installed the "Bellshuttomatic2013"..... then this is simply too uncomplicated!


:D

drjiohnsmith

Peter_I

makes you wonder why so many people seem to make a hash of installing,
    and come to the forum, or ask friends.

and why an installer gets asked for so often.

but thats another question.

have a good new year.

life ah,


retrolefty

#24
Jan 02, 2013, 08:06 pm Last Edit: Jan 02, 2013, 08:08 pm by retrolefty Reason: 1

Peter_I

makes you wonder why so many people seem to make a hash of installing,
   and come to the forum, or ask friends.

Well I would ask not if the absolute number of users having problems is increasing but rather is the percentage of new users having problems increasing or not? The arduino total population has been on a steadily increasing curve as stats on this board would show ( http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php?action=stats ) so it would be expected that the calls for help would also increase in absolute numbers.

But that aside the installation has become somewhat more complex due to the many different types of boards that arduino now supports and the different USB drivers they require. A fundamental problem is that the IDE cannot detect what kind of board is being plugged into the PC and just relies on the PC seeing a new USB connection being made and a com port number being assigned to it. The IDE just knows about defined com ports active, so no automatic arduino installer will work without manually asking the user to tell it what kind of board(s) (explicitly and accurately) they going attach to the PC later. So installing the proper USB driver is the biggest challenge to any automated install I think.
Lefty

and why an installer gets asked for so often.

but thats another question.

have a good new year.

life ah,



bperrybap


Peter_I

makes you wonder why so many people seem to make a hash of installing,
    and come to the forum, or ask friends.

and why an installer gets asked for so often.

but thats another question.

have a good new year.

life ah,



I think the answer is pretty simply.
Many people won't take the time to read instructions.
http://arduino.cc/en/Guide/Windows
But I think what might help would be to update the "download software page"
http://arduino.cc/en/Main/Software
to more clearly indicate where the instructions are.
Yes there is a link for "Getting Started" but it isn't that obvious that you
really need to take a look there for the instructions.

But then again, while it does take looking and reading,
there is a blue "Getting Started" button/link at the top of all these
Arduino pages that takes you right there.
People are obviously skipping that and going directly to the "Downloads" page.

--- bill


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