Go Down

Topic: How do I prevent video interference caused by electric motors (Read 7688 times) previous topic - next topic

David82


Quote
the power supply isn't the problem from what my experiments have shown. Even when using batteries, the same action still causes the camera brown-out.

Because you are not supplying enough current! The problem is you dont know what everything is rated, (what needs what)


The LCD is small. It's only about 1A.
The camera is only about 1A.
I don't know what the cap draws when it is added.
The power supply is 90W/12V=7.5A
Batteries on the other had can output a heck of a lot of amperage but the problem still persists.

This is a better image of the test system:

It was suggested by Magician in another thread to put a inductor in series on the positive lead going to the camera. That makes sense to me as it would help smooth out current fluctuations caused by the sudden added load. What Henry value should I look for though?

oric_dan

BTW, I found these pretty pictures showing a lot of fun designs,

http://www.google.com/search?q=star+grounding&hl=en&tbo=u&tbm=isch&source=univ&biw=990&bih=824&sei=4k_rUOvZFaaZiQK1koGYBQ

PeterH


Batteries on the other had can output a heck of a lot of amperage but the problem still persists.


I don't know what type of battery you're using, but if you're talking about conventional AA sized cells they're going to struggle to provide a couple of Amps never mind having anything in reserve for spikes in the demand.
I only provide help via the forum - please do not contact me for private consultancy.

zoomkat


Quote
the power supply isn't the problem from what my experiments have shown. Even when using batteries, the same action still causes the camera brown-out.


Your power supply can ONLY produce 12V @ 7.5A, whereas your componets may need 8 - 8.5A.
It worked correctly last time when you had 2 power supplies because you split the current. Your single power supply can not handle everything.


His powersupply may only produce .75a at 12v, who knows. Go back to the below and check that it is a "dual" supply. 

http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/topic,140951.msg1059054.html#msg1059054
Google forum search: Use Google Advanced Search and use Http://forum.arduino.cc/index in the "site or domain:" box.

HazardsMind

My GitHub:
https://github.com/AndrewMascolo?tab=repositories

pdwyer

You will need to use shielded cable from the motor drive ICs (or board) to the motors.  Ground the shield in the cable to ground on your board.  Leave the shield open on the motor end.  Also, from looking at you diagram, you may need to clean up the wiring mess and/or use shielded cable in other places.  Try shielding the motor cable first, and let me know.

Patrick

David82

I did some tests. I need help interpreting the results.

measuring equipment: Fluke 287 history graph feature.

Theory: 90W PC power supply isn't good enough because it can't supply enough current when needed
Test: use car battery
Result: same video flickering problem

Theory: a drop in voltage when a load is applied is what causes the camera to flicker
Test: apply 4700uF 35v cap to circuit (which will also cause the video to flicker) and read voltage data from DMM.
Result: voltage only momentarily dropped from 12.1v to 11.8v
Conclusion: voltage drop is not significant enough be the cause of the problem.

what else should I test?

zoomkat

Quote
what else should I test?


You need to observe the minimum voltage drop point with an o-scope instead of a DMM. Most DMMs cannot accurately show rapid voltage changes due to their design.
Google forum search: Use Google Advanced Search and use Http://forum.arduino.cc/index in the "site or domain:" box.

David82

but an o-scope only shows instant voltage fluctuations. It would be gone, off of the screen before I could get a chance to look at it..

zoomkat


but an o-scope only shows instant voltage fluctuations. It would be gone, off of the screen before I could get a chance to look at it..


I would think an o-scope would have a trigger/hold feature for rapid events. Perhaps you should take your project to an electronics shop for a professional opinion. Nobody here knows the construction methods (soldered or twisted wires, wiring size, etc.) you used. If the cam requires a regulated 12v power source, any drop below 12v may cause issues.  No amount of whining, fantasy thinking, praying, etc will change the way your project behaves. If you have an arduino, you might be able to make a data logger setup to detect/record how low the voltage drops.
Google forum search: Use Google Advanced Search and use Http://forum.arduino.cc/index in the "site or domain:" box.

David82

#70
Jan 11, 2013, 11:39 pm Last Edit: Jan 11, 2013, 11:42 pm by David82 Reason: 1
my fluke 287 records a graphical display of whatever it is measuring. I don't know if an o-scope has that feature.



I have a new experiment to try. I need some component that only allows amperage to be drawn gradually as if you were turning the knob of a variable pot. what would that be called?

zoomkat

Your fluke should have some features to allow you to see how low the voltage drops either ysing the max/min capture (100ms resolution) or duty cycle (which may have the shortest measurement interval).

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CEMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myflukestore.com%2Fcrm_uploads%2F287_289_umeng0100.pdf&ei=65XwUP28B-Ww0AHvyIGIBQ&usg=AFQjCNFvxUdKELcescSQ-fr3XYfgVGD0Uw&bvm=bv.1357700187,d.dmQ

Quote

Capturing Minimum and Maximum
Values
The MIN MAX Record mode captures minimum, average, and
maximum input values. When the input goes below the recorded
minimum value or above the recorded maximum value, the Meter
beeps and records the new value. The Meter stores the elapsed
time since the recording session was started at the same time.
The MIN MAX mode also calculates an average of all readings
taken since the MIN MAX mode was activated.
This mode is for capturing intermittent readings, recording
minimum and maximum readings unattended, or recording
readings while equipment operation precludes watching the
Meter. The MIN MAX mode is best for recording power supply
surges, inrush currents, and finding intermittent failures.
Response time is the length of time an input must stay at a new
value to be captured as a possible new minimum or maximum
value. The Meter has a 100 millisecond MIN MAX response time.
For example, a surge lasting 100 milliseconds would be captured
but one lasting only 50 milliseconds may not be captured at its
actual peak value. See the MIN MAX specification for more
information.

To activate the MIN MAX mode, press M. As shown in
Figure 6, the Meter displays e at the top of the
measurement page, and the MIN MAX start date and time along
the bottom of the page. In addition, the recorded maximum,
average, and minimum values appear in the secondary display
with their respective elapsed times.
Restart
119.81VAC
Stop
Start : 06/07/07 7:00 pm
Maximum 127.09
119.50
110.23
Average
Minimum
Auto Range
VAC 500 VAC
VAC
00:03:17
01:10:09
00:59:59
VAC
8:10pm 06/07/07
Min Max
est42.eps
Figure 6. MIN MAX Record Display
To stop a MIN MAX recording session, press M or the softkey
labeled Stop. The summary information in the display freezes,
and the softkeys change function to allow saving the collected
data. Pressing M again or the softkey labeled Close exits the
MIN MAX record session without saving the collected data.

Measuring Duty cycle
Duty cycle (or duty factor) is the percentage of time a signal is
above or below a trigger level during one cycle, as shown in
Figure 25.
The duty-cycle mode is optimized for measuring the on or off
time of logic and switching signals. Systems such as electronic
fuel injection systems and switching power supplies are
controlled by pulses of varying width, which can be checked by
measuring duty cycle.

Google forum search: Use Google Advanced Search and use Http://forum.arduino.cc/index in the "site or domain:" box.

David82


Your fluke should have some features to allow you to see how low the voltage drops either ysing the max/min capture (100ms resolution) or duty cycle (which may have the shortest measurement interval).


It does but why would use that instead of the historical graph? Does the min/max have a much faster cycling time or something?

zoomkat



Your fluke should have some features to allow you to see how low the voltage drops either ysing the max/min capture (100ms resolution) or duty cycle (which may have the shortest measurement interval).


It does but why would use that instead of the historical graph? Does the min/max have a much faster cycling time or something?


I don't have your fluke, so I can't do actual test like you should be doing. The bar graph apparently updates 30 times a second, but I assume you will have to be able to visually determine the low voltage value during a very short interval. Where in your circuit have you measured using the bar graph method and what were the results?  I would think the duty cycle might be interrupt driven able to capture the shortest interval (the voltage trigger level would have to incremently lowered for each test to find the lowest value).
Google forum search: Use Google Advanced Search and use Http://forum.arduino.cc/index in the "site or domain:" box.

Go Up