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Topic: How, specifically, does an electric meter measure wattage? (Read 4227 times) previous topic - next topic

David82

I'm trying to build one and learn a few things in the process. When i try to google it I get the wrong question answered (like how to read a electric meter, etc.). AC just looks like a sine wave on an oscilloscope so what characteristics of that sine wave are measured to determine wattage used? If that's not what is looked at, then what is?

Secondly, if a 1:1 transformer is used between the meter and the load, would the meter still read correctly?

strykeroz

Hi

There's quite a discussion on the theory and mathematics behind AC metering over at OpenEnergyMonitor.org.  They've also wrapped up the theory into an Arduino library for ease of use.

Cheers ! Geoff
"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse"
- retired astronaut Chris Hadfield

CrossRoads

Watts = Voltage * Current, yes?
So if you know the voltage, all you have to do is meaure the current.
If you have a low-impedance transformer that all your current goes thru with a small secondary winding that drives a motor with spins a dial/set of dials, the current used can be displayed, and multiplied by the known voltage to provide the wattage.
Designing & building electrical circuits for over 25 years.  Screw Shield for Mega/Due/Uno,  Bobuino with ATMega1284P, & other '328P & '1284P creations & offerings at  my website.

David82


retrolefty

#4
Jan 08, 2013, 03:44 pm Last Edit: Jan 08, 2013, 03:45 pm by retrolefty Reason: 1

I'm trying to build one and learn a few things in the process. When i try to google it I get the wrong question answered (like how to read a electric meter, etc.). AC just looks like a sine wave on an oscilloscope so what characteristics of that sine wave are measured to determine wattage used? If that's not what is looked at, then what is?

Standard AC voltage and current units of measurements are given in equivalent DC RMS values such that if your were to power a 120 ohm resistor from both a 120 vac power source and another time with a 120 vdc battery, both are said to create 1 amp of RMS current and the resistor is dissipating 1 RMS watt of power. AC voltage can be measured in other units like average voltage, peak voltage, peak to peak voltage, all derived from the same indentically sized AC voltage wave form.

 The measurement of true AC power consumption (as measured by your billing meter) involve other additional factors like Power Factor (phase angle difference between voltage and current for loads other then pure resistance) and dealing with non-sine wave current flows ( the AC voltage provided to you is always in sine wave form, but some of your loads don't draw current as a pure sine wave and must be converted to true RMS current to obtain true power consumption). But before advancing you first should nail down voltage/current/wattage measurements as they apply to AC and DC circuits and what the units of measurement really mean. This seems to be a good article on the subject: http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_1/3.html

Secondly, if a 1:1 transformer is used between the meter and the load, would the meter still read correctly?

Yes, the 1:1 ratio tells you the voltage and current levels with be equal between the primary and secondary minus a few percentage power loss in the transformer core in the form of heating of the iron core due to eddy currents.
Lefty


David82

We studied phase angle in my college physics 2 class. Is the phase angle what is used to measure current?

When using a 1:1 transformer, I don't understand how the meter can still tell how much current is used. The wires providing power aren't actually connected to the load in any way.

retrolefty


We studied phase angle in my college physics 2 class. Is the phase angle what is used to measure current?

No, phase angle is the relationship between voltage and current at an given instant of time and if not 0 degrees then simply multiplying voltage X current won't give you the true RMS power consumption. The phase angle must be measured so it's effect can be calculated for true power consumption as in billing rate.

When using a 1:1 transformer, I don't understand how the meter can still tell how much current is used. The wires providing power aren't actually connected to the load in any way.

Not directly connected but effectively connected by the transfer of power via constantly changing magnetic coupling from primary to secondary windings, the iron core of the transformer makes this a very efficient transfer of power. This only works for AC as DC will not pass power through a transformer as there is no changing magnetic field as in AC. AC power transfer is effectively constant (minus small transformer losses) such if the step up voltage ratio is 1:2 the current ratio transfer will be 2:1 making the actual power transferred constant.

draythomp

As pointed out above, for an extended well researched answer go to openenergymonitor.org.

But, in direct answer to your question:  A 1:1 transformer won't do it for you.  As you pointed out, the current doesn't go through it.  You have to measure the voltage and the current for many intervals, and square, sum, root, then average them; that's what RMS (root mean square) means.  Then, you have to consider the errors introduced by phase angle of the various components you used and the offset due to calibration of the same components.  For us hobbyist, current transformers measure the current and an isolation transformer is used to measure the voltage.  We sample the voltage and current any times a second and do the calculations on an arduino to give use a value that varies over time and usage.  Those devices can be searched for on Google.

This is what CrossRoads was hinting at below.  The entire explanation is quite involved and more than I should go into here.  If you want an explanation of power meters as the power companies use them, go to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_meter

Over the years there have been many techniques used ranging from full analog relying on induced currents on an aluminum disk to high speed digital sampling.  Take your pick from the article.  Some of the companies that make the power meters have descriptions and modes of operation online for you to look at; look at your own meter and try to find it online.  You might get lucky.
Trying to keep my house under control http://www.desert-home.com/

DVDdoug

#8
Jan 08, 2013, 11:17 pm Last Edit: Jan 08, 2013, 11:25 pm by DVDdoug Reason: 1
Quote
Secondly, if a 1:1 transformer is used between the meter and the load, would the meter still read correctly?
If you put the transformer between your electric meter and your referigerator, of course the meter is still going to measure the power consumption...

Quote
AC just looks like a sine wave on an oscilloscope so what characteristics of that sine wave are measured to determine wattage used?
If you have a resistive load, like a light bulb, the current and voltage are in-phase.   So, you can simply measure the RMS current and the RMS voltage, and multiply.   

With inductive or capacitive loads, the current and voltage can be out-of-phase by some amount (up to 90 degrees).  In that case you have to measure the voltage and current at the same instant and calculate the power for that instant, or take many measurements or measure continuously to get an RMS power measurement.  (I'm sure you use some calculus in your physics class, and you might remember how to multiply two sine waves with a known phase-angle difference...)

If you call an electrician and ask him to measure the power your refigerator is consuming, he might not have a power meter handy*, so he''d probably break the circuit and insert his multi-meter in series to measure RMS current.   Then, he'd multiply by the known line-voltage to calculate the power.  That wouldn't be 100% accurate, since the compressor motor is somewhat inductive, but it would be a reasonable approximation.

If you wanted to do someting similar with the Arduino, it would be easier to measure the peak current.   Since you know it's a sine wave, you can multiply by 0.707 to get the RMS current.  And, since you also know the (approximate) line voltage, you can calculate the power.

If it's for a physics class or for the power company, it's very important to measure the true-accurate RMS power consumption.   For casual/hobby use you may be able to take some shortcuts. ;)


*Power meters are somewhat rare, but I assume most electricians now have a Kill-A-Watt in their truck.

mauried

One of these devices does all the hard work for you.
http://www.silica.com/product/78m6613-single-phase-ac-power-measurement-ic.html

Measuring AC power accurately isnt a simple thing to do,so best not to reinvent the wheel.

David82

This is for a college project. We are supposed to figure out a way to power a load without the meter registering it :/
Some students were thinking you could draw a really small amount that maybe wouldn't register. Another idea was to suck up a huge amount faster than the sampling rate and dissapate that slowly to power the load. Another idea was the 1:1 transformer but that I guess wouldn't work. Any ideas? The school allocated the funds for us to build it.

HazardsMind

#11
Jan 09, 2013, 05:38 am Last Edit: Jan 09, 2013, 05:42 am by HazardsMind Reason: 1
Not be able to measure it in what way, current or voltage? If it's voltage, you could max out (overload) the meter. Find out what the maximum voltage it can read then try to go beyond it. (Dangerous though) You could use a step-up transformer or you could get it to oscillate beyond what the meter can read.
My GitHub:
https://github.com/AndrewMascolo?tab=repositories

retrolefty


This is for a college project. We are supposed to figure out a way to power a load without the meter registering it :/
Some students were thinking you could draw a really small amount that maybe wouldn't register. Another idea was to suck up a huge amount faster than the sampling rate and dissapate that slowly to power the load. Another idea was the 1:1 transformer but that I guess wouldn't work. Any ideas? The school allocated the funds for us to build it.


Simple attach/wire your load to the input side (upstream) of the metering point rather then output side (downstream).

Lefty



David82


David82



Simple attach/wire your load to the input side (upstream) of the metering point rather then output side (downstream).

Lefty


The instructor joked about doing that. Not allowed. We have to power something, like a light bulb without the meter registering it.

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