Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
Author Topic: is 12v motorcycle battery (maintenance free) is good for robot?.  (Read 1617 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
isabela, philippines.
Offline Offline
Jr. Member
**
Karma: 1
Posts: 62
if you dont go, you will never know.
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset


i have a project line following controlled by arduino , with gsm shield and a pir sensor.

im thinking for using motorcycle battery 12v and ill just use regulator to lower the volt. does this battery is good or long enough to power all the devices?.

thanks you very much.

Logged

jaylisto

Corinth, TX
Offline Offline
Jr. Member
**
Karma: 1
Posts: 92
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

That's a big, heavy battery.  Of course your power requirements will be determined by length of service, overall weight, what exactly it does and many other factors... but unless the robot needs to go a very long time between charges I think the motorcycle battery is probably overkill.  Especially if the robot is mobile, requiring it to move that big heavy battery around.
Logged

isabela, philippines.
Offline Offline
Jr. Member
**
Karma: 1
Posts: 62
if you dont go, you will never know.
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

That's a big, heavy battery.  Of course your power requirements will be determined by length of service, overall weight, what exactly it does and many other factors... but unless the robot needs to go a very long time between charges I think the motorcycle battery is probably overkill.  Especially if the robot is mobile, requiring it to move that big heavy battery around.

i have a 9v dc motor, that i think strong enough to carry the battery. im hopping that its strong enough.

what do you mean by overkill? sorry im not a person who speak english.
Logged

jaylisto

the land of sun+snow
Offline Offline
Faraday Member
**
Karma: 159
Posts: 2895
View Profile
WWW
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

You may already have a platform in the works, but another possibility is 6V SLA batteries.
They will likely run a 9V motor ok too. You can find SLA batteries of many sizes, and can
pick the best size,

http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StoreCatalogDrillDownView?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&categoryName=cat_47&subCategoryName=Rechargeable&category=4715

BTW, I have an Omnibot 5402 that uses the 6V, 4.5 AmpHr SLA, and runs for a long time,

http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_264014_-1

http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_nkw=VINTAGE+TOMY+OMNIBOT+TOY+ROBOT+5402
[beware the $1250 and $900 auctions! I got mine for < $20]

I've also run the Omnibot off a set of 6 NiMH AA Cells, which go 2500 mA-hr these days,
and that works good too.

Logged

isabela, philippines.
Offline Offline
Jr. Member
**
Karma: 1
Posts: 62
if you dont go, you will never know.
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

You may already have a platform in the works, but another possibility is 6V SLA batteries.
They will likely run a 9V motor ok too. You can find SLA batteries of many sizes, and can
pick the best size,

http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StoreCatalogDrillDownView?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&categoryName=cat_47&subCategoryName=Rechargeable&category=4715

BTW, I have an Omnibot 5402 that uses the 6V, 4.5 AmpHr SLA, and runs for a long time,

http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_264014_-1

http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_nkw=VINTAGE+TOMY+OMNIBOT+TOY+ROBOT+5402
[beware the $1250 and $900 auctions! I got mine for < $20]

I've also run the Omnibot off a set of 6 NiMH AA Cells, which go 2500 mA-hr these days,
and that works good too.



thanks for the idea, do this sla battery last longer than 12v battery motorcycle?
but you forgot the charger?

can i use our 12v motorcycle battery charger to charge the 6v sla?

and btw,what about the high ampere of the battery(sla 6v and 12v motorcyle bat)?. i hope it will not damage my arduino..

Logged

jaylisto

the land of sun+snow
Offline Offline
Faraday Member
**
Karma: 159
Posts: 2895
View Profile
WWW
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

The Omnibots come with a little 6V wallwart to recharge the battery. SLA requires nothing
special, unlike Nicad, NiMH, and Lithium.

Larger Amp-Hr batteries won't harm your electronics, as the Arduinos only draw as much
current as they need. But powering an Arduino from 12V will often cause the tiny surface-
mount 5V regulator to overheat.

For robots larger than tiny, I favor using different sets of batteries for motors and
electronics, then the motor electrical noise doesn't get onto the processor board as easily.
I always use NiMH AA-cells for the electronics, no matter what I use for the motors.

Logged

isabela, philippines.
Offline Offline
Jr. Member
**
Karma: 1
Posts: 62
if you dont go, you will never know.
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

The Omnibots come with a little 6V wallwart to recharge the battery. SLA requires nothing
special, unlike Nicad, NiMH, and Lithium.

Larger Amp-Hr batteries won't harm your electronics, as the Arduinos only draw as much
current as they need. But powering an Arduino from 12V will often cause the tiny surface-
mount 5V regulator to overheat.

For robots larger than tiny, I favor using different sets of batteries for motors and
electronics, then the motor electrical noise doesn't get onto the processor board as easily.
I always use NiMH AA-cells for the electronics, no matter what I use for the motors.



o thank you very much for your reply.

do your 6v sla battery weight is less than the 12v battery of motorcycle?

how long do Omnibots run from full charge to empty? i mean how many hours.?
Logged

jaylisto

the land of sun+snow
Offline Offline
Faraday Member
**
Karma: 159
Posts: 2895
View Profile
WWW
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

If you look at the Jameco link, it will show you the weights for the different 6V and
12V batteries. Your running time will depend on size and weight of the robot, the
battery capacity, and how much you run the motors, so it's a little difficult to know
all this ahead of time. The Omnibot will easily run for a couple of hours on the 4.5
Amp-Hr battery.
Logged

isabela, philippines.
Offline Offline
Jr. Member
**
Karma: 1
Posts: 62
if you dont go, you will never know.
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

If you look at the Jameco link, it will show you the weights for the different 6V and
12V batteries. Your running time will depend on size and weight of the robot, the
battery capacity, and how much you run the motors, so it's a little difficult to know
all this ahead of time. The Omnibot will easily run for a couple of hours on the 4.5
Amp-Hr battery.


ok thank you, fair enough.


ow, i didnt notice the battery of motorcycle is also sla....

since i have 12v motorcycle battery charger then i think its more efficient buying 12v battery , so that i will no longer buy sla 6v battery charger.

if i can charge sla 6v battery by my 12v motorcycle battery charger, then i will go for 6v..

o by the way, im here in the philippines, i will try to find sla 6v battery charger and 6v sla battery tomorrow so that i can plug it directly not regulating the volts anymore...  thank you so much.
Logged

jaylisto

Phoenix, Arizona USA
Offline Offline
Faraday Member
**
Karma: 39
Posts: 5557
Where's the beer?
View Profile
WWW
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_nkw=VINTAGE+TOMY+OMNIBOT+TOY+ROBOT+5402
[beware the $1250 and $900 auctions! I got mine for < $20]

I'm pretty sure those auctions are for the Omnibot in "prime" condition (with box, manual, all parts, little/no fading or yellowing of plastic, and most importantly - the cardboard "home" base); for all of that, those are actually reasonable prices - the Omnibot -is- a collectible Tomy product, and an antique toy (technically). Do some research on such toys; you'll be amazed.

I personally own the three major "Omnibots" (One Verbot, Two Omnibots, and an Omnibot 2000 - I also have a Chatbot), plus an actual Tomy Armatron (and several of the Radio Shack ones); I also have a Heathkit Hero Jr. They are all my "collector" bots; they don't get played with. None are in perfect shape or have everything they came with originally, but they all work.

I once had this idea of collecting all of the 1980s era Tomy robots, but then I found out that there were a ton out there, many only sold in Japan originally. Many of those are near impossible to find at any price; there are some really rare ones out there that are hella expensive when you can find them on the collectors market (one is called "Hootbot" - it's an owl; if you can find it with the stand/perch and the manual - let's just say it ain't cheap, last time I looked several years back). I once saw an auction on Ebay (5 or more years ago) for a special Tomy robot that was given out to executives for some Tomy aniversary; it was programmable, and was fairly small - it's base was about the size of a quarter, and stood only an inch or so tall. You programmed it with this small pocket-sized computer; it had some IR sensors or something. Anyhow, it was silver plated, and I can't remember what this robot went for, but it was in the thousands of dollars by the end of the auction. Since it was an executive board giveaway schwag item from Tomy, there were only like 20 or so made, and who knows how many still exist.

I also collect other Tomy toys of the era - I have a few Atomic Pinballs (one of the greatest tabletop toy pinball machines ever made, IMHO), as well as an Air Jammer car...
Logged

I will not respond to Arduino help PM's from random forum users; if you have such a question, start a new topic thread.

Phoenix, Arizona USA
Offline Offline
Faraday Member
**
Karma: 39
Posts: 5557
Where's the beer?
View Profile
WWW
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

since i have 12v motorcycle battery charger then i think its more efficient buying 12v battery , so that i will no longer buy sla 6v battery charger.

Make sure that charger can work with an SLA. Also note that an SLA is not the same as a Sealed Battery - generally, SLAs are also known as "gel cell" batteries, because the electrolyte in them is a gel, not a liquid. There exist lead-acid batteries that are sealed (ie - no removable vent plugs to add water or acid to the battery), but they -aren't- "sealed lead acid" (SLA). They have liquid electrolyte in them - not gel. Confused yet?

Now - battery chargers designed to charge liquid electrolyte lead-acid batteries -should not- be used to charge SLA gel cell batteries, unless the charger is designed to be used on such batteries. If you try to use such a charger on an SLA, you'll damage the battery at best; or cause a rupture of the battery (or an explosion!) at worst.

if i can charge sla 6v battery by my 12v motorcycle battery charger, then i will go for 6v..

It's unlikely you'll be able to do this, unless it has a setting (or sensing capability) explicitly for a 6 volt SLA gel-cell battery. If it is 12 volt only - you /DO NOT/ want to try to charge a 6 volt SLA gel-cell with it (unless you hook two 6V gel-cell batteries in series, and the charger is designed for gel-cells, of course). Doing so is to invite explosion and fire into your life.

o by the way, im here in the philippines, i will try to find sla 6v battery charger and 6v sla battery tomorrow so that i can plug it directly not regulating the volts anymore...  thank you so much.

Whatever you do, match your charger with your battery; try to look up the datasheet for the battery and find out it's 10C rate of charge. Some batteries can be charged quicker than 10C - but you need to review the datasheet of the battery for this. Also note that not all chargers are built the same; some cheap chargers are nothing more than a simple wall wart - if you don't carefully time the charging of the battery properly, you'll ruin the battery easily. Do some research on how to charge gel-cells. There are ways of doing it with a proper current and voltage limiting bench power supply, but even then you have to monitor the charging, voltage and current levels.

Also - any lead-acid battery (sealed, non-sealed, gel-cell, whatever) has to be "maintained" in order for it to perform properly. You can't store them without putting a charge into them, and you must "top them up" periodically (every month or so) and not let them discharge. Generally, if a 12 volt lead-acid battery falls below 10 volts or so (1 volt per cell), it is "dead", and you should consider buying another. What happens is called "sulfation" of the plates; with a proper charger, this sulfation can -sometimes- be removed, but in many cases there's no hope for the battery; properly recycle it, and buy another.

I'm actually planning on buying the following charger after reading some real good reviews about it:

http://smartercharger.com/products/batterychargers/ctek-multi-us-3300/

It ain't cheap - but neither are the larger gel-cells in the long run...
Logged

I will not respond to Arduino help PM's from random forum users; if you have such a question, start a new topic thread.

the land of sun+snow
Offline Offline
Faraday Member
**
Karma: 159
Posts: 2895
View Profile
WWW
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

Yeah, the first thing I do is gut the electronics from the toys, and use the frames and motors
only, so 'collectible' doesn't mean much. Omnibot 5402 has really nice motors.

Another nice base is the R.A.D. 2.0. With that, I completely tossed the upper body, and kept
the lower base only. The base is only about 4" high and has a 2-speed transmission. R.A.D. uses
an old specially-designed 6V NiCad that's probably not available anymore, but could be used with
any 6V SLA.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p4069.m570.l1313&_nkw=R.A.D.+robot

BTW, check out this site to find your old vintage bots,

http://www.theoldrobots.com/
http://www.theoldrobots.com/index2.html



Logged

isabela, philippines.
Offline Offline
Jr. Member
**
Karma: 1
Posts: 62
if you dont go, you will never know.
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_nkw=VINTAGE+TOMY+OMNIBOT+TOY+ROBOT+5402
[beware the $1250 and $900 auctions! I got mine for < $20]

I'm pretty sure those auctions are for the Omnibot in "prime" condition (with box, manual, all parts, little/no fading or yellowing of plastic, and most importantly - the cardboard "home" base); for all of that, those are actually reasonable prices - the Omnibot -is- a collectible Tomy product, and an antique toy (technically). Do some research on such toys; you'll be amazed.

I personally own the three major "Omnibots" (One Verbot, Two Omnibots, and an Omnibot 2000 - I also have a Chatbot), plus an actual Tomy Armatron (and several of the Radio Shack ones); I also have a Heathkit Hero Jr. They are all my "collector" bots; they don't get played with. None are in perfect shape or have everything they came with originally, but they all work.

I once had this idea of collecting all of the 1980s era Tomy robots, but then I found out that there were a ton out there, many only sold in Japan originally. Many of those are near impossible to find at any price; there are some really rare ones out there that are hella expensive when you can find them on the collectors market (one is called "Hootbot" - it's an owl; if you can find it with the stand/perch and the manual - let's just say it ain't cheap, last time I looked several years back). I once saw an auction on Ebay (5 or more years ago) for a special Tomy robot that was given out to executives for some Tomy aniversary; it was programmable, and was fairly small - it's base was about the size of a quarter, and stood only an inch or so tall. You programmed it with this small pocket-sized computer; it had some IR sensors or something. Anyhow, it was silver plated, and I can't remember what this robot went for, but it was in the thousands of dollars by the end of the auction. Since it was an executive board giveaway schwag item from Tomy, there were only like 20 or so made, and who knows how many still exist.

I also collect other Tomy toys of the era - I have a few Atomic Pinballs (one of the greatest tabletop toy pinball machines ever made, IMHO), as well as an Air Jammer car...

why do you collect old robots? whats the point? if you can build or buy newer and cheaper for a higher capability and accuracy? you are so amazing..
Logged

jaylisto

isabela, philippines.
Offline Offline
Jr. Member
**
Karma: 1
Posts: 62
if you dont go, you will never know.
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

Yeah, the first thing I do is gut the electronics from the toys, and use the frames and motors
only, so 'collectible' doesn't mean much. Omnibot 5402 has really nice motors.

Another nice base is the R.A.D. 2.0. With that, I completely tossed the upper body, and kept
the lower base only. The base is only about 4" high and has a 2-speed transmission. R.A.D. uses
an old specially-designed 6V NiCad that's probably not available anymore, but could be used with
any 6V SLA.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p4069.m570.l1313&_nkw=R.A.D.+robot

BTW, check out this site to find your old vintage bots,

http://www.theoldrobots.com/
http://www.theoldrobots.com/index2.html





is there some kind of old commercial robot that uses 12v motorcycle battery? from the picture in you link. what do they use to power them up?

btw. do old robots have better motors?.
Logged

jaylisto

the land of sun+snow
Offline Offline
Faraday Member
**
Karma: 159
Posts: 2895
View Profile
WWW
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

Quote
is there some kind of old commercial robot that uses 12v motorcycle battery? from the picture in you link. what do they use to power them up?

btw. do old robots have better motors?.

Do you happen to know the amp-hr capacity of the motorcycle battery? Usually you see people
using SLA batteries, rather than motorcycle batteries. Probably because they are sealed, and you
never have to worry about acid spills, although I imagine some newer m/c batteries are sealed
too. For my part, I never looked into using an m/c battery.

I've built several robot bases from scratch, but the old toys like Omnibot and R.A.D. were nice
modular designs [R.A.D. especially] that are easily converted.

http://letsmakerobots.com/node/29374?s=l
Logged

Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
Jump to: