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[Reply #15 on:]

Once again, my rant isn't about not being willing to help. It's about the state of engineering education systems that don't teach a problem problem approach* and which are at a level where telling the pattern from 5 switches is final year stuff.

*Although I suppose asking others for the answer is in itself a problem solving approach?

[Reply #16 on:]

Once again, my rant isn't about not being willing to help. It's about the state of engineering education systems that don't teach a problem problem approach* and which are at a level where telling the pattern from 5 switches is final year stuff.

*Although I suppose asking others for the answer is in itself a problem solving approach?

So do have a solution to share to improve that state of the world in engineering education? That was my point. One can find no limit of things to complain about the world not being as good as it should be or as good as it once seemed to be.

Think happy thoughts, that's my solution. 

Lefty

[Reply #17 on:]

So do have a solution to share to improve that state of the world in engineering education

Yes I do thanks, or at least I hope to become part of one at my current client if some things fall into place. I'm thinking happy thoughts about that...

[Reply #18 on:]

Ah kids these days   I have observed things that concern me with some of the local high-school kids. They seem to assume that they can do complex things, and easily, in areas where they've never even had their feet wet. Once they get into it, and find (gasp) learning curves, bodies of knowledge that they don't have, etc. etc. they get intimidated in a hurry and just back off. No concept of or interest in walking before you run, or investing time and effort. If it's tougher than learning to use a smart phone, then they really have to be motivated.

I blame it on a few things. One, not enough hands-on along the way. Two, our instant-gratification society where we aren't willing to wait for (or work at something for) more than ten minutes. Three, the sheer complexity of current every-day devices, they have become good enough that there is less hint of the complexity within. I wonder if today's engineering students have the time to really understand the foundations of computers and electronics they way we old-timers did because we had the distinct advantage of growing up with the technology. I told my daughter (CS degree) that she'll never understand computers the way I do because she's never toggled in a bootstrap loader on the front-panel switches. Of course that line got me a deer-in-the-headlights look

Last, there are the two kinds of people: Those that know they don't know, and those that don't know they don't know. I'm always on the lookout for the latter!

Just anecdotal stuff from my undoubtedly lopsided point of view. Exceptions abound, and I have no reason to think I'm describing the majority. I certainly hope not.

[Reply #19 on:]

Possibly another category: the ones who paid others to do their homework and take the occasional test and managed to drift along with a low C average that finally get up to where they have to do something real. If Daddy can't afford a big grant then they may never become President so quick, go cry for help!

[Reply #20 on:]

One token 'Grumpy' is enough for any one site.

I'll be the token cynic :-)

Pete

[Reply #21 on:]

Did you win some kind of competition for token cynic?  ] When was it held anyway? 

[Reply #22 on:]

I'm cynical enough to know that a competition for token cynic would be rigged against me. Thus, the preemptive strike.

Pete

[Reply #23 on:]

There's probably enough cynics here to form clubs and have a cynic's olympics.
IMO, years of dealing between machines and people should do it to anyone.

[Reply #24 on:]

Thumbs up for the post, reply #2, 10, 14 and 18.   In particular "Instant gratification" - yes, please.

[Reply #25 on:]

Ah kids these days   I have observed things that concern me with some of the local high-school kids. They seem to assume that they can do complex things, and easily, in areas where they've never even had their feet wet.

That's what's been pumped into their heads since before they could reason, from cartoons to movies. Smart kids "just know what to do" without actually studying and doing a thing. You just walk up and presto-a-priori pull off the next miracle.
To be fair, that's probably how language, art and acting majors see science and engineering majors.. and who makes the shows?

[Reply #26 on:]

I was going to try to be more cynical, but I realized I would probably suck at it anyway and nobody would care even I could.

[Reply #27 on:]

Ah kids these days   I have observed things that concern me with some of the local high-school kids. They seem to assume that they can do complex things, and easily, in areas where they've never even had their feet wet

like the recent radio PSA's encouraging kids to go to college (in my area)?

Some are worse than others, the latest a kid is playing a "war game" of some sorts online and is excited to make "MVP of the round!"

well ok, grats kid .. then he goes on to say "its that kind of skill, determination and hard work thats going to make me succeed in college!"

wait what?

[Reply #28 on:]

Would it be un-cynical to say at least they're better than climate change deniers?   

[Reply #29 on:]

like the recent radio PSA's encouraging kids to go to college (in my area)?

Some are worse than others, the latest a kid is playing a "war game" of some sorts online and is excited to make "MVP of the round!"

well ok, grats kid .. then he goes on to say "its that kind of skill, determination and hard work thats going to make me succeed in college!"

wait what?

Seriously? That's a PSA? Wow. Perhaps the Mayans were right. Some the things that people see as "accomplishments" are just incredible. That'll look just dandy on the CV, kid.