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Author Topic: RANT ALERT: All the college / uni project questions  (Read 4535 times)
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There's calculators that do algebra now right up to calculus. Why bother memorizing indentities and the properties of equations when you can push a few buttons and have -an- answer? Especially when you don't know what you'll see and understand because you never did?

Why bother doing labs? Just look up the answers and fake a report. But then I watched the same basic thing happen in school lab groups where dummies copied off doer's and got that enough credit to balance D's and F's on tests. I understand that in colleges people paid others to take the tests too, back before PC's and maybe before I was born.

But will we get the average here? We won't see the ones who don't even try. We do see a lot of learners and helpers. So getting some slackers is only to be expected, and they're the ones I should feel sorry for. Why I don't.. I've known too many that end up in charge and the word then isn't slacker.  I know people who'd rather steal a dime than earn 10 bucks with the same effort.

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I find it harder to express logic in English than in Code.
Sometimes an example says more than many times as many words.

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You know, this reminds me of the old "student using calculator debate".  
It's gonna make them morons yelled one camp
It'll increase the time they spend learning new things, yelled the other.
Seems like the old "my religion is better than yours" argument, only this time no religious wars.

No, not at all.

The calculator debate is not an appropriate analogy. In the case of a calculator, it simply makes the time it takes to solve the problem shorter - the fact being that the student still did the problem by themselves. The students knew how to multiply, divide, add, and subtract without the calculator. The calculator frees the mind to work on more in-depth parts of the problem.

In the case of the internet and forums, it's possible that they will be able to get others to do part of the work for them. In other words, it not only saves time, it replaces the mental work required by one person with ideas and solutions done by another. This is not in any way like your example with a calculator. The same thing happens with writing assignments these days - you know what plagiarism is don't you? Same thing. People get others ideas and substitute them for their own.

Look at it this way - why bust your a** for 8 hours trying to figure out a program when you can just go to a forum and ask somebody else to solve it for you? How many students are going to do the former instead of the latter? Just ask somebody how to turn on a coffee pot over ethernet and save all the problem solving. That's not like your calculator example at all.

What are we going to do in 50 years when a student can just ask an A.I system how to solve the problem from start to finish? Maybe there will be no need for higher education then at all ...

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You seem to have a yearning for the past, but the volume of information has changed since them.

Not at all. I just stated I wonder how many students take the time to work out the answer themselves. I didn't imply the internet wasn't a good resource. I would never want to go back to the 1980's. You know what a TRS-80 is? If you don't Google it. I wouldn't wish that on anybody!  smiley And saying "Ah the good old days" is just a humorous quip.


"We stand on the shoulders of Giants", I thought Neil Armstrong said that, refering to how the Apollo program achieved what it did. I looked up Wiki. Blaise Pascal supposedly made that famous, but it actually goes further back in time.
You don't seem to get the analogy I'm making between the Calculator debate and using someone else's ideas.
Forget specifics, because if you bring specifics in, I can talk about using OpAmps as opposed to discrete component circuits. I can talk about microcontrollers as opposed to sequential digital logic blocks.
Get the idea ?
I fully understand what you mean about where will we be in 50 years time. I grew up learning electronics by collecting parts and building crystal sets, winding my own electromagnets, etc... not a pre-packaged Radio Shack kit. Programming on the SYM-1 (look it up).
Am I a better person for it ? I would like to think so. Then I read the blogs of some of the younger 20'ish engineers who have posted on this forum and elsewhere. I don't think we should worry, the engineering world is in good hands. (if only governments were made up of engineers and we shoot all the cowboy lawyers)
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"We stand on the shoulders of Giants", I thought Neil Armstrong said that, refering to how the Apollo program achieved what it did. I looked up Wiki. Blaise Pascal supposedly made that famous, but it actually goes further back in time.
You don't seem to get the analogy I'm making between the Calculator debate and using someone else's ideas.
Forget specifics, because if you bring specifics in, I can talk about using OpAmps as opposed to discrete component circuits. I can talk about microcontrollers as opposed to sequential digital logic blocks.
Get the idea ?

Sure. Thanks for the explanation.

Quote
I fully understand what you mean about where will we be in 50 years time. I grew up learning electronics by collecting parts and building crystal sets, winding my own electromagnets, etc... not a pre-packaged Radio Shack kit. Programming on the SYM-1 (look it up).
Am I a better person for it ? I would like to think so. Then I read the blogs of some of the younger 20'ish engineers who have posted on this forum and elsewhere. I don't think we should worry, the engineering world is in good hands. (if only governments were made up of engineers and we shoot all the cowboy lawyers)

I did much the same, I did the ham radio thing - morse code - and built many electronic gadgets. I hope you are right about the younger generation.

Now if I could only get that Arduino kit I've been waiting on I cold build my own ethernet coffe pot. smiley-cool
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If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants.
Isaac Newton

Do you think that's because he didn't bother working through the proofs of those who came before him?



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I find it harder to express logic in English than in Code.
Sometimes an example says more than many times as many words.

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Did you win some kind of competition for token cynic?
Hey! Why wasn't I told?
I demand a recount.

Wouldn't help, the recount would be rigged.

Lefty

{Throws in towel. Mutters something about not being in the same league}
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"Pete, it's a fool looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart." Ulysses Everett McGill.
Do not send technical questions via personal messaging - they will be ignored.

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