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TX
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Sure, I end up with a few tabs, 30 or 40, sometimes by two windows in two different viewports, because I can in linux or OSX (chuckle), but heck, it's easier and quicker, no re-loading pages.

No, it's not quicker.

You know, it's really funny. It's really odd. It's really quiet. This place practically screams "We can solve problems! Tell us your problem and we'll find a solution!" Five or ten people sometimes jump on solving the problem at hand. They can't resist solving problems here, and that's really good. It's really impressive, until this problem came up.

Why, when it comes to this problem, is there silence from the problem solvers, the Administration? What's different about it? Why are they so averse at working on a solution to the problem, not avoiding it or working around it? Maybe they are embarrassed and don't want to admit the problem exists? I can only speculate on the reason if they don't chime in. They haven't even acknowledged it. They haven't even said "We don't know how to fix it." Anyone want to guess why? Is it the color of my avatar? Maybe they don't like members with locomotive avatars that report problems.

I just think it's very strange, especially when I posted this topic in the proper place out of goodwill, notifying them of the problem, and what happens? Crickets chirping from the Admins. It's really not a good policy to ignore problem reports and offers of goodwill from members who want the forum to run like it should. I know, they are they types that "shoot the messenger". That's gotta be it.

I dunno, I just think it's weird.

P.S. The forum is running a version of SMF that is on the fast track to being unsupported, as I've also said. But that's another thread ...
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It's not that strange, I don't think I've ever seen a single issue of this nature addressed, or even acknowledged, by the powers that be.

In fact the only time I've seen them post on this forum was around the time of the Due release.

I know of people (myself included) who have directly PMd and emailed the team with no response.

There may be good reason, maybe they get 1000 emails a day and just can't answer them all. Either way you better get used to it smiley

There is a bug-reporting mechanism, I don't know anything about it though.

______
Rob
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 09:05:34 am by Graynomad » Logged

Rob Gray aka the GRAYnomad www.robgray.com

TX
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It's not that strange, I don't think I've ever seen a single issue of this nature addressed, or even acknowledged, by the powers that be.

In fact the only time I've seen them post on this forum was around the time of the Due release.

I know of people (myself included) who have directly PMd and emailed the team with no response.

There may be good reason, maybe they get 1000 emails a day and just can't answer them all. Either way you better get used to it smiley

Thanks for the reply Graynomad, I appreciate it.

If what you say is true, they need more people who are empowered to fix things on the forum. I know the structure of SMF very, very well. They could add more Admins, or even Global moderators with more permissions. If there isn't a moderator assigned to this board, they could do that. The Moderator would acknowledge the problem and elevate it t the appropriate official, and report back.

A forum this big needs a lot of moderators. In fact, I just looked at the boards and none of them show that any moderators have been assigned to them. Shoot, a forum this big, which covers so may time zones? It should have 5 to 7 moderators per board , not because that many are needed at once, but because the board is so active worldwide 24/7 - the members who are mods should reside in several world wide time zones. It deserves that many. Each board would have these mods and that way all the members know specifically who to report problems to.

I just sorted the memberlist and Admin should have come up at the top, but it looks like they have renamed the membergroups, i.e. Edison, Faraday ... who knows who is really an administrator? Who is in charge. Very odd way to do things!

It ain't rocket science. There will be no problem getting volunteers to do these jobs. They will have more volunteers than they can shake a stick at.

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There is a bug-reporting mechanism, I don't know anything about it though.

OK, I'll try and PM an Admin to verify that they don't care about these types of reports, and I'll post what happens here.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 12:40:09 pm by modeller » Logged

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There is a bug-reporting mechanism, I don't know anything about it though.

OK, I'll try and PM an Admin to verify that they don't care about these types of reports, and I'll post what happens here.
Good luck.
May the force be with you
Jantje
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Nederlandse sectie - http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/board,77.0.html -

TX
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Good luck.
May the force be with you
Jantje

PM sent to the recipients shown below. At first I tried to send it to all six Admins, but I got this message:

You may not send personal messages to more than 3 recipient(s) at once.

That's ridiculous, for a site this large, to be only able to send a PM to just three people! THREE?

Good Grief.  smiley-confuse

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Forum Error Messages Involving Searches

The courtesy of an official response in-thread is requested regarding the documented problem in the thread linked below.

Thank you very much for your attention,

Modeller

"Document Expired" Messages When Going Back to Search Results

cc:
Massimo Banzi
David Cuartielles
mellis
Davide
cmaglie
madbob

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TX
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It's not that strange, I don't think I've ever seen a single issue of this nature addressed, or even acknowledged, by the powers that be.
______
Rob

Looks like you were right Rob. Not a single Admin responded to my PM, or commented on my post about the document expired error. I guess they just don't give a damn about members reporting problems. But it's funny, if you look down the lists of posts on this board you can see they lock threads and move them, so they must be reading the board. Hmmm ...

But that isn't going to stop me from commenting on problems I see with this forum.  smiley

And now for my short treatise on SMF's moderating system, for those that are interested.

There are 8 Global moderators on this forum, and no board moderators (if there were, they'd be listed on each board)

Four of the Globals are very active -

Name - Position - Date Registered - Posts

AWOL             Global Moderator    2009-02-25    17733
Coding Badly      Global Moderator    2009-04-15    9497
CrossRoads    Global Moderator    2010-08-21    15175    
Nick Gammon    Global Moderator    2010-12-31    12905

Four of them are not active at all. Taking into account the length of time they've been registered, it seems they have lost interest in moderating -

michael shiloh       Global Moderator    2009-03-24    37
Federico Vanzati    Global Moderator    2009-03-26    1077
Yot             Global Moderator    2009-10-05    287
UweFederer       Global Moderator    2011-03-27    4

So for all practical purposes, there are only four Global Moderators, and no board moderators, for a forum of this size -

1136364 Posts in 139356 Topics by 128500 Members.

SMF has a heirarchy set up that, when used, makes the life of everybody a lot easier.

We have these top ranks -

Administrators
Global Moderators
Board Moderators


It should be used like a police force. You have the Chief(s) of police (Admins), the captains (Globals), and the cops on the beat (board Mods). In this case the forum owner would be the Mayor. The police chief(s) (Admins) should never be doing the work of moderating. All they do is manage the police force and hire and fire other mods and twiddle with the forum settings. They also work with the Mayor (forum owner).

The Global Mods manage the board moderators and determine what actions to take when serious violations of forum policy happen. They can, if given the permissions, edit members profiles and do some other things to enforce the rules, ban members, and so on. In a pinch they can do the menial work of moving and splitting threads, but that's not their primary job function.

The board Mods are the cops on the beat. They do most of the work of moderating. They make sure that the posts for each board are on-topic and manage each board. They split threads, move threads, respoond to Report to Moderator actions, get involved in threads when they veer off-topic, and so on.

If you have a very small forum, it's OK to use Global Mods to police the entire forum, because it's not efficient to assign members to each board if your membership is very small. In fact if it's very small the Admin will do the same thing. That's just the way it goes.

But for a large forum (and this one is huge) you need to set up the moderating system the proper way. You should have board moderators on each board to handle all the little things that happen inside each micro-community (each major board). Another thing to consider is the global activity of the forum. If it's truly a world-wide audience, you need moderators awake spanning all the global time zones.

IMHO, this forum is way too big, WAY to big, to be policed primarily by a few Global Moderators, and as I said Administrators are not supposed to be moderators. My guess is that it just evolved that way from years ago. But looking at it now, it needs to have it's moderating hierarchy gutted and set up the way SMF is meant to be set up. It's just way too busy to be run like this.

Cheers,

Modeller





« Last Edit: March 10, 2013, 09:26:04 am by modeller » Logged

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It seems to me there are in fact a few "board moterators", specifically in the "international" section. Uwe is one of the moderators of the Italian board.

(edit: typo)
« Last Edit: March 10, 2013, 09:39:57 am by tuxduino » Logged

TX
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It seems to me there are in fact a few "board moterators", specifically in the "international" section. Uwe is on of the moderators of the Italian board.

Well, at least someone is paying attention.

Yes indeed (except for Scandinavia), I have that board collapsed because I don't need to read it, but that's good. Now the question is, why do they not do it for the busiest boards on the forum?
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IMHO, this forum is way too big, WAY to big, to be policed primarily by a few Global Moderators, and as I said Administrators are not supposed to be moderators. My guess is that it just evolved that way from years ago. But looking at it now, it needs to have it's moderating hierarchy gutted and set up the way SMF is meant to be set up. It's just way too busy to be run like this.

Cheers,

Modeller

Well I don't agree with your opinion of what this forum needs. You present a solution looking for a problem that doesn't exist in my opinion. I've been a member for over 4 years and seen the huge growth happen.

 This forum started with almost no active moderation and had few problems to speak of, but as it grew the admin did ask for volunteers to help with typical moderation tasks and a few were selected.

 This forum for it's huge size has not had a lot of problems with trolls and members posting abusive content considering the membership size and high posting traffic we have. What few show up are dealt with in a timely but fair manner. Once in a while some commercial ad bot spams the board pretty good but those are always handled in a timely manner.

 So again I don't share that there is a problem here looking for a solution, our moderation is of the 'light handed' nature and I hope it remains that way. I don't wish to see this forum operate like a local government structure, too much politics and niches can form as a result of an over administrated forum.

Lefty
« Last Edit: March 10, 2013, 09:36:44 am by retrolefty » Logged

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Look at these two -

Federico Vanzati, UweFederer

They are already Global Mods, and don't require an assignent to a board moderator slot.

Also look at the "moderators" of General Discussion.

Moderators: admin, Massimo Banzi, David Cuartielles, mellis

They are Administrators! There is no logical reason to assign an Admin to a board moderator slot - they can already do anything a moderator can do without the permission of a board moderator. That's what I mean, the way these slots are being used tells me they don't really understand SMF.

Well I don't agree with your opinion of what this forum needs.

Now were getting some responses.

Of course you don't agree Lefty, that's because you are part of the existing "clique". I wouldn't expect you to agree with me yet. That doesn't however mean that this moderating scheme is being used properly. Your argument is nothing more than this -

"It's always been done this way so how could it be better?"

Do you answer technical questions like that? No. You answer them with logical responses. I may not know the Arduino as well as you, but I think I know SMF and how it's supposed to be set up better than just about anyone here.

Why don't you try to answer my points logically. For example, why are Administrators assigned to board moderator slots? Start with that.
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Look at these two -

Federico Vanzati, UweFederer

They are already Global Mods, and don't require an assignent to a board moderator slot.

Also look at the "moderators" of General Discussion.

Moderators: admin, Massimo Banzi, David Cuartielles, mellis

They are Administrators! There is no logical reason to assign an Admin to a board moderator slot - they can already do anything a moderator can do without the permission of a board moderator. That's what I mean, the way these slots are being used tells me they don't really understand SMF.

Well I don't agree with your opinion of what this forum needs.

Now were getting some responses.

Of course you don't agree Lefty, that's because you are part of the existing "clique".

No such 'clique' exists, what you see posted is what there is, nothing more nothing less.

 I wouldn't expect you to agree with me yet. That doesn't however mean that this moderating scheme is being used properly. Your argument is nothing more than this -

"It's always been done this way so how could it be better?"

 Because the software allows the kind of structure you wish to implement does not mean it needs to be or should be implemented. Again, what problem specifically are you proposing to solve other then you think the membership population Vs moderator population is not what you would like to see?

Do you answer technical questions like that? No. You answer them with logical responses. I may not know the Arduino as well as you, but I think I know SMF and how it's supposed to be set up better than just about anyone here.

Again knowledge of the SMF tool does not mean one must implement every bell and whistle it has. I know C/C++ to a certain limited amount but it doesn't mean I try and use every feature the language offers.  

Why don't you try to answer my points logically. For example, why are Administrators assigned to board moderator slots? Start with that.
I don't even understand the question. Membership titles mean little to me compared to membership behaviour.
Lefty

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Why don't you try to answer my points logically. For example, why are Administrators assigned to board moderator slots? Start with that.

Quote
I don't even understand the question. Membership titles mean little to me compared to membership behaviour.
Lefty


Well there you go. You don't even understand the question, which means you don't understand what SMF membergroup permissions are and who can use what permissions as relates to their membergroup.

If a person logs on and says they don't understand something about the Arduino, and you explain it to them and ask them a question, and then they tell you

"I don't even understand the question. Electronic part names titles mean little to me compared to their behavior in a a circuit." how would you respond?

I think you would keep trying to explain. It's the same behavior you are exhibiting here. You don't understand SMF permissions and membergroups, and somehow that makes what I'm telling you irrelevant to your pre-conceived opinion that the forum is set up the best it can be. It's clique behavior, which means that an outsider's opinions are usually met by opposition by the clique - I mean how can a new outsider be right about anything regarding the existing community? It's the same behavior exhibited by large corporations toward new people with new ideas. Ever try to change a large corporation as a newcomer? That's the way you are acting towards me.

Are you willing to listen to an expert on SMF (me), or are you going to exhibit to me the same behavior that you would frown upon by a newbie to electronics who wouldn't listen to your explanations of the Arduino?
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Are you willing to listen to an expert on SMF (me), or are you going to exhibit to me the same behavior that you would frown upon by a newbie to electronics who wouldn't listen to your explanations of the Arduino?

I just voice my opinion as just a normal member of the forum, that I don't think there is a problem with the number of and/or behaviour of the existing moderators/administrators, or their running of this forum. I understand you feel there is something wrong but have failed to be very specific in your complaint, other then more cops on the streets are needed, think of the children.

Lefty
 
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I just voice my opinion as just a normal member of the forum, that I don't think there is a problem with the number of and/or behaviour of the existing moderators/administrators, or their running of this forum. I understand you feel there is something wrong but have failed to be very specific in your complaint, other then more cops on the streets are needed, think of the children.

Yes I have been specific in a post above. You just glossed over the entire explanation. Is that the way you want new electronics members to act towards explanations you post?
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I just voice my opinion as just a normal member of the forum, that I don't think there is a problem with the number of and/or behaviour of the existing moderators/administrators, or their running of this forum. I understand you feel there is something wrong but have failed to be very specific in your complaint, other then more cops on the streets are needed, think of the children.

Yes I have been specific in a post above. You just glossed over the entire explanation. Is that the way you want new electronics members to act towards explanations you post?

Well we are just talking past each other. Lets see if any other members have comments on your recommendations.

Lefty
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