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Topic: What are chips like the MEGA2560 used for in real-world applications? (Read 2148 times) previous topic - next topic

JoeN

I see the applications for the low-end 8 bit controllers that Atmel makes and the ARM processors too, but I don't understand the niche for the ones in the middle like the 2560.  It's fairly expensive and has a small number of pins and raw compute power and memory compared to ARM.  What is it used for?  It seems the only slam-dunk application would be legacy low volume apps where compatibility with existing code is paramount.  What sort of products do we know the 2560 is in except for the Arduino Mega?  And does the go for XMEGA and AVR32 as well which seem to fall in the same boat?
I have only come here seeking knowledge. Things they would not teach me of in college.

fungus


It's fairly expensive and has a small number of pins and raw compute power and memory compared to ARM.


It's not all about "raw compute power and memory". Sometimes you just need an Uno with a bit more RAM and/or a few extra serial ports and I/O pins.

No, I don't answer questions sent in private messages (but I do accept thank-you notes...)

Graynomad

I've just designed a system for a company using the 2560, not normally my choice but they have a current system using Megas and they want to keep the code and I guess they are comfortable with the chip.

_____
Rob
Rob Gray aka the GRAYnomad www.robgray.com

JoeN



It's fairly expensive and has a small number of pins and raw compute power and memory compared to ARM.


It's not all about "raw compute power and memory". Sometimes you just need an Uno with a bit more RAM and/or a few extra serial ports and I/O pins.




Great.  What real world application did it make it into under these circumstances?  If this was a hobby application, I totally understand why someone would use it.  I've used them.  But I can't believe that Atmel designed this chip just for hobby apps.  There just aren't enough hobbiests in the world to make it worthwhile.  They had to have designed it with real world applications in mind, something with at least somewhat of a higher volume in mind.  I am at a loss in figuring out what it might be though.  I know the lower end chips go out in hundreds of millions of products a year - toys, remotes, small appliances, etc..  I am just trying to figure out what the 2560 is used for.  The way it is priced, I just can't see how it would make it into many real high-volume products.
I have only come here seeking knowledge. Things they would not teach me of in college.

retrolefty




It's fairly expensive and has a small number of pins and raw compute power and memory compared to ARM.


It's not all about "raw compute power and memory". Sometimes you just need an Uno with a bit more RAM and/or a few extra serial ports and I/O pins.




Great.  What real world application did it make it into under these circumstances?  If this was a hobby application, I totally understand why someone would use it.  I've used them.  But I can't believe that Atmel designed this chip just for hobby apps.  There just aren't enough hobbiests in the world to make it worthwhile.  They had to have designed it with real world applications in mind, something with at least somewhat of a higher volume in mind.  I am at a loss in figuring out what it might be though.  I know the lower end chips go out in hundreds of millions of products a year - toys, remotes, small appliances, etc..  I am just trying to figure out what the 2560 is used for.  The way it is priced, I just can't see how it would make it into many real high-volume products.


Field of Dreams, built it and they will come.  ;)

Lefty

fungus


I know the lower end chips go out in hundreds of millions of products a year


Name one... :)

No, I don't answer questions sent in private messages (but I do accept thank-you notes...)

retrolefty



I know the lower end chips go out in hundreds of millions of products a year


Name one... :)




I know the majority of radio control ESC speed controllers are based on various versions of the mega8 chip. It's a very big market but probably not hundreds of millions?

Lefty

afremont

Sometimes you need something that can run for months/years on a watch battery; 8-bit micros are great at that.  You can't do that (as easily) with an ARM.  When you look at the line-up that Microchip has, you can see that there are some pretty specific requirements out there and if you can save half a cent on the chip by finding some incredibly obscure part number, it might be worth tens of thousands of dollars in extra profit.  I'm thinking smart thermostats are a good location for a 2560, what with complex, custom LCD screens that aren't x by y pixel oriented graphics.

A guy told me once that he'd never seen people become so bitter as when they told the board that they needed to spend 3 cents more in total cost per toy on electronic parts.  This for a fairly expensive toy.  It's all about competition and the profit margin out there in the real world; every penny counts.  It's dog eat dog in toy land.
Experience, it's what you get when you were expecting something else.

JoeN



I know the lower end chips go out in hundreds of millions of products a year


Name one... :)




That is a good point. I have not done a teardown on enough stuff to know this for sure.  Atmel has a positive EBITDA, $300 million in cash, $0 in debt.   $1.43B in total revenue.  You have to sell a lot of cheap microcontrollers to make that kind of money.  It looks like a healthy company for the time being.  Their trailing PE is a lot higher than their forward PE.  Did they just reorganize something to lower costs?  Anyway, I am guessing they sell a ton of the lower end products.  Does anyone have better knowledge of specific applications of Atmel microcontrollers over all of their lines?

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=ATML+Key+Statistics
I have only come here seeking knowledge. Things they would not teach me of in college.

retrolefty




I know the lower end chips go out in hundreds of millions of products a year


Name one... :)




That is a good point. I have not done a teardown on enough stuff to know this for sure.  Atmel has a positive EBITDA, $300 million in cash, $0 in debt.   $1.43B in total revenue.  You have to sell a lot of cheap microcontrollers to make that kind of money.  It looks like a healthy company for the time being.  Their trailing PE is a lot higher than their forward PE.  Did they just reorganize something to lower costs?  Anyway, I am guessing they sell a ton of the lower end products.  Does anyone have better knowledge of specific applications of Atmel microcontrollers over all of their lines?

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=ATML+Key+Statistics


I think a few years back (when the depression hit?) they sold off all their foundries (fabs) and now contract that part of manufacturing out.

Lefty

James C4S

Products stick around long after their markets go away.  Once a product goes into its mature lifecycle, the cost of continuing to sell it is generally pretty small.  It doesn't take a big market (cough Arduino boards, cough) to keep a chip around.

Keep in mind that an existing product may not have competed with all the complementary products it does today, when it was introduced.


Does anyone have better knowledge of specific applications of Atmel microcontrollers over all of their lines?

They are very focused on selling their touch controllers.

Capacitor Expert By Day, Enginerd by night.  ||  Personal Blog: www.baldengineer.com  || Electronics Tutorials for Beginners:  www.addohms.com

JoeN


Products stick around long after their markets go away.  Once a product goes into its mature lifecycle, the cost of continuing to sell it is generally pretty small.  It doesn't take a big market (cough Arduino boards, cough) to keep a chip around.

Keep in mind that an existing product may not have competed with all the complementary products it does today, when it was introduced.


Does anyone have better knowledge of specific applications of Atmel microcontrollers over all of their lines?

They are very focused on selling their touch controllers.




What do those go into?  POS terminals?  Seems like every retail credit card terminal has touch now, you don't even have to use the buttons, just touch the screen.
I have only come here seeking knowledge. Things they would not teach me of in college.

James C4S

Anything and everything with capacitive touch.

Spend a few minutes reading atmel's marketing literature. 
Capacitor Expert By Day, Enginerd by night.  ||  Personal Blog: www.baldengineer.com  || Electronics Tutorials for Beginners:  www.addohms.com

Nick Gammon

It would probably find a use in those situations where you need more inputs, and it is cheaper to get the bigger chip than the smaller chip and lots of shift registers.

Plus you may need more RAM or program memory. And the extra hardware serial ports would be useful.

I would guess something like a washing machine or dishwasher might need the extra digital/analog inputs, plus the extra timers would come in handy.

Also the extra EEPROM would be handy for storing logs of what went wrong.

I know that when our dishwasher gets serviced he connects up a gadget to the LEDs on the front panel and downloads the logs of what happened when.
Please post technical questions on the forum, not by personal message. Thanks!

More info:
http://www.gammon.com.au/electronics

JoeN


Anything and everything with capacitive touch.

Spend a few minutes reading atmel's marketing literature. 


Except the most popular touch device in the world...  =(
I have only come here seeking knowledge. Things they would not teach me of in college.

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