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Author Topic: [Solved] Help with ATSAM3X8E (Due barebones)  (Read 8138 times)
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An "Empty place" is just that, a part footprint not populated it can be a by-pass, sometimes a jumper but mostly for the capacitors you MIGHT need... Possibly.
Don't be stingy on by-pass caps. They are like "Magic Bullets" for weird problems AND you don't "Have" to use the pads and they are virtually free.
Finally "Hangies" are the parts added, usually "Hanging" in air. I've done my share...
cuts and jumpers... Too
with kynar wire-wrap wire... make the insulation the same color as the solder mask and that way the "Changes" can become 'nearly' invisible.

Bob
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An "Empty place" is just that, a part footprint not populated it can be a by-pass, sometimes a jumper but mostly for the capacitors you MIGHT need... Possibly.
Don't be stingy on by-pass caps. They are like "Magic Bullets" for weird problems AND you don't "Have" to use the pads and they are virtually free.
Finally "Hangies" are the parts added, usually "Hanging" in air. I've done my share...
cuts and jumpers... Too
with kynar wire-wrap wire... make the insulation the same color as the solder mask and that way the "Changes" can become 'nearly' invisible.

Bob

Thank you for the explanation =)...

Well I didn't get any feedback on the previous design so I went ahead and made the thing.. Just finished etching.. I'll have it soldered and tested by tomorrow I hope (don't have any time today).. Here is some pictures for the interested ..

Front: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/74389175/IMAG0456.jpg
Back: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/74389175/IMAG0455.jpg
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Sorry, I meant to look at those files but forgot.

The schematic is too hard to check properly without spending ages matching pin numbers so I'll give that a miss.

Your general board layout looks good, tracks are at strange angles though but that's mostly an aesthetic thing.

I'm not that experienced with laying out high-speed traces but the USB lines are supposed to be of equal length and IIRC impedance matched to 50R. I may be wrong and I have in fact had boards work without much care taken with the D+ and D- signals using an FTDI chip. But I think that chip is just low speed USB, the SAM does high-speed as well doesn't it?

Your lengths look reasonable, but you have sharp corners and vias, all of which are bad for high speed signals.

If you look at the Due traces they are matched,all on the top layer and no vias. Like I said though I don't now how important it is.

So I'll be interested to see if the USB works, especially through all the connectors.

Also I can't find R7 and R8 on the PCB. Can you post the Eagle design file?

______
Rob
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Sorry, I meant to look at those files but forgot.

The schematic is too hard to check properly without spending ages matching pin numbers so I'll give that a miss.

Your general board layout looks good, tracks are at strange angles though but that's mostly an aesthetic thing.

I'm not that experienced with laying out high-speed traces but the USB lines are supposed to be of equal length and IIRC impedance matched to 50R. I may be wrong and I have in fact had boards work without much care taken with the D+ and D- signals using an FTDI chip. But I think that chip is just low speed USB, the SAM does high-speed as well doesn't it?

Your lengths look reasonable, but you have sharp corners and vias, all of which are bad for high speed signals.

If you look at the Due traces they are matched,all on the top layer and no vias. Like I said though I don't now how important it is.

So I'll be interested to see if the USB works, especially through all the connectors.

Also I can't find R7 and R8 on the PCB. Can you post the Eagle design file?

______
Rob

Your feedback is great! Didn't think about the "equal length" thingy for the USB part. I myself don't have nor use high speed USB yet. I know that it's supported by the SAM, but I believe that it will work if nothing is wrong with the full USB lines. My home brewed leonardo dosen't have equal USB length signals and it works pretty good (it's not high speed, and nothing is wrong with the USB lines). I only have three vias. Two for the high speed USB part and one for a ground connection. R7 and R8 are near the breakout-board connectors.

I made this pretty quick and it's not a final design. Just a way to move this from a breadboard to a PCB for testing. So the routing is pretty "sh*tty" i know, but look at it from the bright side, there is only a few 90 degree angled connections =P!

Here's the schematic and board file:

Schematic: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/74389175/BaselM3Proto/BaselsM3ProtoV1.0.sch
Board: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/74389175/BaselM3Proto/BaselsM3ProtoV1.0.brd

Edit: Yes, your pretty much right about the high speed USB. I found a document from Atmel stating pretty much what you told me. Here is a link to the pdf, http://www.atmel.com/Images/doc32122.pdf. Well all I have now is hope that it works.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2013, 10:18:50 pm by baselsw » Logged

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So, does it work? smiley
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I am wondering if your chip has not gone through the erase sequence, which is required to get into the bootloader. The ERASE pin needs to be high during reset and held high for 220ms.

I found with SAM7S my chip could get into a "bricked" state, and doing the erase procedure would recover it, sometimes took more than one go to do it.
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To all of you, yes it works now smiley-grin:D:D:D.. It was probably noise from the breadboard. After two hours of trying to fit the break out (made wrong measurements) board to my newly soldered board it's finally working.

Here is some pictures as proof =P:

Board soldered (Front): https://dl.dropbox.com/u/74389175/BaselM3Proto/IMAG0457.jpg
Board soldered (Back): https://dl.dropbox.com/u/74389175/BaselM3Proto/IMAG0458.jpg

Breakout board attached to the board (Front): https://dl.dropbox.com/u/74389175/BaselM3Proto/IMAG0461.jpg

When you attach the USB the first time, you need the drivers delivered with SAM-BA. After installing the drivers you should get the following: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/74389175/BaselM3Proto/sam_ba_com.png

Then open Arduino IDE and upload the blink sketch. The board will restart as Arduino Due (you'll need to install the arduino due drivers that comes with the arduino IDE). After install you should get the following: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/74389175/BaselM3Proto/arduino_blink.png.

If you've got any questions hit me! =P

And by the way I've changed a small thing in the schematic so here is the updated version:

Schematic: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/74389175/BaselM3Proto/BaselsM3ProtoV1.0.sch
Board: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/74389175/BaselM3Proto/BaselsM3ProtoV1.0.brd
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 Good job sticking with the project until you got it working!
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 Good job sticking with the project until you got it working!

Thanks =D.. Well I've learned a lot from this. Mainly that the SAM chip needs a lot of passive components in order to work.. It's not as simple as the 328p where you only need a crystal, power, a couple of caps/resistors and your up and running...

Still it would be interesting to strip components (one by one) from the board until it stops working, and by this coming down to a "true" bare minimum =P.
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Yes well done and thanks for persevering with this.

It will be interesting to see what the absolute bare minimum is so let us know if you do that.

______
Rob
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Yes well done and thanks for persevering with this.

It will be interesting to see what the absolute bare minimum is so let us know if you do that.

______
Rob

Thanks =).. Ya it would be interesting, but after looking at the schematic I've come to realize that it won't be possible.. As you see a few components are also used as "vias" to the other side of the board. So by disconnecting one component, it will lead to other components not functioning properly.. There is a solution to this "of course", but it's very time consuming.. So I'm going to skip this step..

Again, thank you for your tips..!
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So, thats how my "minimum" looks like. Well, thats all I need. I wont be frugal with the capacitors and hope this works smiley-grin
Sorry for the wrong symbol of the switch (Schalter), but Multisim/Ultiboard doesnt allow different footprints for buttons :-/



* Due circuit.png (98.68 KB, 941x1011 - viewed 171 times.)
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So, thats how my "minimum" looks like. Well, thats all I need. I wont be frugal with the capacitors and hope this works smiley-grin
Sorry for the wrong symbol of the switch (Schalter), but Multisim/Ultiboard doesnt allow different footprints for buttons :-/



Looks good. Ya not as many caps as mine =P.. Just a note, I left the TST pin hanging, I don't know what happens if you connect it to ground (refer to the datasheet just to be sure). Other note, I didn't use any inductors (your schematic L1). It is optimal to include it but not a minimum.. Everything else looks good..

But just to be sure always double check just in case you forgot something =P..

Good luck! Please report back your results on this!
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Looks good.   A lot more capacitors than I anticipated, and I wasn't sure if both crystals were necessary myself.

So what's the programming process w/ the USB attached directly to the MCU?  Erase program w/ the button, then hit reset and upload via arduino user interface or what?  Can you just upload a hex file with another program instead?
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Looks good.   A lot more capacitors than I anticipated, and I wasn't sure if both crystals were necessary myself.

So what's the programming process w/ the USB attached directly to the MCU?  Erase program w/ the button, then hit reset and upload via arduino user interface or what?  Can you just upload a hex file with another program instead?

The caps are important specially for the USB communication. Getting fluctuations from the power supply/circuitry can lead to the USB connecting and disconnecting randomly.

Well, you program it through the USB native port. The first time you plug in the board it will present itself as AT91 USB to Serial Converter (use the drivers that comes with the SAM-BA program). To program it just go through the normal process through the arduino IDE(Select Arduino Due Native Port in the boards menu). After programming the USB will remount as the Arduino Due in which case you'll have to point the driver wizard to the arduino drivers located somewhere in the arduino ide folder.

After that it's simple really. Just program it with the option Arduino Due Native port (The bootloader will do a soft erase each time it flashes the chip).

NOTE: Regarding the hardware erase switch. If you press it, the chip will be whipped and you'll have to do the process all over again (choosing the SAM-BA drivers etc etc).

NOTE-2: Yes, you can program the chip with Atmels SAM-BA program. I use Atmel Studio sometimes with this chip. What I did is add a external script that programs the chip after compilation.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 10:14:25 pm by baselsw » Logged

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