Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
Author Topic: Website needs prominent links to Atmel datasheets  (Read 3129 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
UK
Offline Offline
Tesla Member
***
Karma: 126
Posts: 7225
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

I have been following a couple of the forums here for a few days now and very many of the questions that are asked would be unnecessary if people studied the relevant Atmel datasheets - for example doc8161.pdf for the Atmega328.

I believe the datasheets are essential reference documents for anyone programming a microcontroller yet I haven't seen any link to them on this website.

Perhaps someone could arrange to put a prominent link - ideally in the reference page.

...R
Logged

USA, FL
Offline Offline
God Member
*****
Karma: 14
Posts: 689
A life? Where can I download one of those?
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

After a few days of reading this forum, you should have realized that most beginners don't do any research for their project anyway. 
Logged

//LiNK

Colorado
Offline Offline
Edison Member
*
Karma: 47
Posts: 1562
Reviving dead brain cells with Arduinos.
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

Here you go:

http://www.atmel.com/products/microcontrollers/avr/default.aspx?tab=documents
Logged

UK
Offline Offline
Tesla Member
***
Karma: 126
Posts: 7225
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

Seems like a few brain cells still need reviving smiley

In any case it's not even a useful link.

...R

Logged

USA, FL
Offline Offline
God Member
*****
Karma: 14
Posts: 689
A life? Where can I download one of those?
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

Lol, that link as all the datasheets for 8 and 32-bit controllers..  So it's useless?  I bookmarked it.
Logged

//LiNK

Global Moderator
Boston area, metrowest
Offline Offline
Brattain Member
*****
Karma: 538
Posts: 27115
Author of "Arduino for Teens". Available for Design & Build services. Now with Unlimited Eagle board sizes!
View Profile
WWW
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

http://www.atmel.com/products/microcontrollers/avr/megaAVR.aspx

This one is a little more direct, just the 8-bit devices.
Logged

Designing & building electrical circuits for over 25 years. Check out the ATMega1284P based Bobuino and other '328P & '1284P creations & offerings at  www.crossroadsfencing.com/BobuinoRev17.
Arduino for Teens available at Amazon.com.

Värmland, Sweden
Offline Offline
Sr. Member
****
Karma: 9
Posts: 262
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

I think Arduino.cc provide links to the datasheets that are easy enough to find. On the product pages the link to the datasheet is on the first line of text. I'd say that's prominent enough.

Quote
Overview
The Arduino Uno is a microcontroller board based on the ATmega328 (datasheet). It has 14 digital input/output pins (of which 6 can be used as PWM outputs)
Logged

UK
Offline Offline
Tesla Member
***
Karma: 126
Posts: 7225
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

@perhof, you will note that I titled this topic "prominent links". I don't at all agree that going to the Arduino Uno product page counts as a prominent link. Even if, as a newcomer, you knew there is such a thing as a datasheet how would you know to look there. Do you expect newcomers to read every page of the website when they won't even read the stickies about how to use the forum?

@codlink, Google didn't become the top search engine because it lists thousands of web pages. Other search engines were already doing that. Google is successful because it lists the page with the best answer first, or usually on the first page. A list of every Atmel document is almost as useless as an empty list.

Why do so many people seem opposed to being helpful? It's not as if a link to 2 or 3 key datasheets on the Reference page would be difficult to implement.

...R
Logged

TX
Offline Offline
Jr. Member
**
Karma: 2
Posts: 99
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

Why do so many people seem opposed to being helpful? It's not as if a link to 2 or 3 key datasheets on the Reference page would be difficult to implement.

...R

As you can now see, as I did Robin, there is a strange mindset here. If it's a problem with a project or the Arduino, all comments are welcome. But if it's regarding the forum itself, it's off limits to criticism. That's really too bad.
Logged

Global Moderator
UK
Offline Offline
Brattain Member
*****
Karma: 302
Posts: 26336
I don't think you connected the grounds, Dave.
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

I think by the time members are grown-up enough to realise what processor is on whatever particular flavour of Arduino they have, and need to know more about it, they're grown-up enough to go looking for a link to a datasheet themselves.
Logged

"Pete, it's a fool looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart." Ulysses Everett McGill.
Do not send technical questions via personal messaging - they will be ignored.

UK
Offline Offline
Tesla Member
***
Karma: 126
Posts: 7225
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

@AWOL, as you are a person of considerable influence on this Forum I find your reply very disturbing. Indeed it reflects exactly the sentiment expressed by @modeller.

There seems to be such a strong objection to publicizing the existence and usefulness of the fundamental data underlying the Arduino that I can only conclude there is a reason behind it. And it seems to me the most likely reason is to keep newcomers "in the dark" and dependent on the "experts" on this forum.

Prove me wrong by adding a page to the Reference section that has direct links to the key Atmel datasheets together with a short explanation of why a newcomer might be advised to study them - such as the following

"The full functional details of the ATMEL microprocessors that power the various Arduino boards are documented in various Atmel datasheets. Newcomers who are interested in having a full understanding of the electrical and programming capabilities of the microprocessor on their Arduino board are advised to download a copy of the relevant datasheet.

Following are links to the datasheets for the principal microprocessors used on Arduino boards."

...R
Logged

Global Moderator
UK
Offline Offline
Brattain Member
*****
Karma: 302
Posts: 26336
I don't think you connected the grounds, Dave.
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

No, I utterly refute that, Robin2.

I would say that the datasheets are not a useful resource for most users here - most will find the link, take a quick look and conclude tl,dr.

Their sheer length and detail is likely to be overwhelming to the average noob, and they need a particular skill-set to interpret.
For example - a number of times it has been necessary to dispel the myth that a HIGH is anything above 0.6V, because in the "Electrical Characteristics" it quotes

VIH  Input High Voltage, except XTAL1 and RESET pins  VCC = 1.8V - 2.4V   0.7VCC
                                                                                          VCC = 2.4V - 5.5V   0.6VCC

People see the 0.6V, and miss the "CC"

Believe me, I have no vested interest in being some High Channeler of the Atmel Truth, but I'm a great believer in a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and unless you're equipped to, and capable of, reading a processor datasheet, you're going to be a very dangerous person indeed.

If you want detailed debate of the fine-detail and ins-and-outs of AVR, take it to AVRfreaks.

Quote
Prove me wrong by adding a page to the Reference section that has direct links to the key Atmel datasheets
I'm a forum moderator; I no access to, or interest in, the Reference section.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 08:01:51 am by AWOL » Logged

"Pete, it's a fool looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart." Ulysses Everett McGill.
Do not send technical questions via personal messaging - they will be ignored.

BHZ, MG, Brazil
Offline Offline
Sr. Member
****
Karma: 10
Posts: 346
Android developer; Arduino enthusiast
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

@AWOL, as you are a person of considerable influence on this Forum I find your reply very disturbing. Indeed it reflects exactly the sentiment expressed by @modeller.

I, for one, agree with AWOL. Maybe it's because I have learned early in life to always go for the datasheets first - my professors in college taught that. Even though I am in Brazil, my professors used this exact term, "datasheet", in English.

Before internet became so ubiquitous, I used to save the PDFs in my local HDD and sometimes print them. I must have about 200 printed datasheets of components I've used throughout my projects.

If a newbie knows what is a datasheet, than he'll have no trouble finding one - Google is your friend. I don't think it would help anyone to have the links in arduino.cc. Googling for it is almost always faster than opening arduino.cc and getting the link and if Google fails, go to www.alldatasheet.com.

what I actually do, however, is keep an Excel spreadsheet of every IC, BJS and FETs I have, with quantities for used and new parts, manufacturer, type, a short description and link to its datasheet. Therefore, when I am browsing my inventory spreadsheet for parts I might use, I am always just a click away from the datasheet.

Logged

Learn to live: Live to learn.
Showing off my work: http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/topic,126197.0.html

UK
Offline Offline
Tesla Member
***
Karma: 126
Posts: 7225
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

I've checked my dictionary to be sure I'm not being offensive - this comment of yours is patronizing.

How on earth could reading a datasheet make anyone dangerous. Guns make people dangerous.

I used to be a senior civil servant. This is exactly the attitude of some civil servants who think the public can't be trusted to look after themselves. It is the attitude that is at the root of all the modern health and safety mollycoddling.

"Mummy knows better" has no place in a forum that purports to deal with open source hardware and software.

...R

but I'm a great believer in a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and unless you're equipped to, and capable of, reading a processor datasheet, you're going to be a very dangerous person indeed.

Logged

Global Moderator
UK
Offline Offline
Brattain Member
*****
Karma: 302
Posts: 26336
I don't think you connected the grounds, Dave.
View Profile
 Bigger Bigger  Smaller Smaller  Reset Reset

Quote
this comment of yours is patronizing
I prefer "patronising", but that's only because I'm British, though not Oxford-educated.
Logged

"Pete, it's a fool looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart." Ulysses Everett McGill.
Do not send technical questions via personal messaging - they will be ignored.

Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
Jump to: