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I see Cubex starting at $2500 with cartridges for $100. I would guess the ID chip is to keep people from buying their feed stock elsewhere at a more reasonable price. And still they don't ensure that for the much-extra cost they don't ensure trouble-free operation. That's Yet Another Reason to keep to Open Source design.

In the 80's Tandy (Radio Shack) sold a PC-XT called the TRS-80 that we tech-heads called the Trash-80. It was inferior to PC-XT clones built from standard parts. While it was cheaper than the average 'store-bought' model, it still cost about 50% or so more than what you could build yourself once you knew some simple tech. So nice and cheaper than other stores, right? Well there were nasty gotcha hooks built in. The card slots were 1/8th inch shorter than standard so you -had- to buy Tandy cards at over 3x the price of standard cards. The drives used non-standard cabling to include special lines there only to ensure that even more overpriced drives *had* to be bought from Tandy.
As years went by they slowly changed to use more standard parts when they learned to bury the hooks deeper but then from fixing Dell, Leading Edge, Gateway, etc PC's, I learned that the "buy here and we OWN YOU" practice is common among Big Name Brands.

I remember learning about Schwinn bicycles in 1973. I never had one because I was too lucky back then being too poor to get one. Every part of their mediocre-at-best bicycles was made non-standard so that every part had to be bought at a Schwinn shop. Even the threads on the bolts and frames were a special (less efficient and heavier) non-standard form. The rims and tires, same way. You had to buy -every- part from them at jacked-up prices and every part weighed more for the same strength by design. That not to mention the frames were flexy crap made to take a beating which robbed the rider of energy with every turn of the cranks.
And yet the US car industry made them look almost normal. But of course it was the Unions that destroyed the car companies, not their predatory planned-obsolescence design practices set up just to squeeze wads of money from the pwned consumers.

Why make a good product at a fair price when you can trap customers ignorant of details kept secret until they do wise up? At that point they 'have invested' and continue to be victims until they become ex-customers. But the big shiny point is that most never learn and many develop brand-loyalty even as they are being screwed to the wall.

Expect it. Papa John has his own golf course so the other economic opportunists must have their private golf course to be successful. And car-elevators and private jets and all the rest plus more to one-up the other rich kids. The kid who dies with the most toys, wins.
Where is the money for it all to be squeezed from? The toothpaste tube known as the world, of course!
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I find it harder to express logic in English than in Code.
Sometimes an example says more than many times as many words.

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I just have not be in the US for very long. Is This "Papa" John considered negatively by the public?
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I just have not be in the US for very long. Is This "Papa" John considered negatively by the public?
During the last election, the CEO John Schnatter went on the air in a big way to campaign against the affordable care act, in which he said if he had to provide health care coverage to more of his workers, he would reduce their hours so that they were under the limits where the employer has to provide the benefits.  It was estimated that to provide care for employees at their current hours, it would raise the cost of pizzas by $0.15-0.20.  At the same time, it came out that John had his own private golf course and was living the high life.

In my eyes, that is shameful behavior given a pizza runs maybe $10 or so and the cost of basic health care wouldn't add much, but of course people have different opinions.  Now, if he was a small business man, barely making ends meet, I could see the argument that health care would bankrupt him.

There were several other places that were saying the same things about reducing hours, such as the Olive Garden restaurant chain, and many of them saw immediate drop in sales.  I think many of the restaurants that originally had said they would cut workers hours have since backpeddled.  My daughter has said that the Dunkin Doughnuts shop she works at has been reducing her hours because of this.  At the moment, she is still covered under my employer's insurance, but that will run out when she turns 26 later this year.

Of course in a certain sense, there is an irony about discussing working conditions on May 1st, which back in the day when the Soviet Union was still around, the communists would celebrate May 1st as a big day for the worker.  The origins of the communist celebrations of May 1st trace back to the Haymarket riots in Chicago, May 1, 1888, when the workers were picketing for an 8-hour work day and it turned rather bloody.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 04:47:49 pm by MichaelMeissner » Logged

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Thanks Michael! I didn't know that. I should probably spend more time 3 years from now when election comes again. Many rich people are the same. They don't want to share and they always want more. Why are we not on Mars yet?!

Yeah, I learned the origin of May first, of course, growing up in a communist country. It seems that many countries are celebrating this officially. Too bad the day is not official holiday from its originating country.
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The man said it would cost him 15 cents a pizza. People tip dollars but 15 cents more is too much to give his workers, the people who really earn the money, healthcare.

Because as we all know, 15 cents multiplied by millions is more for everyone BUT the workers. The price of the pizza is what the market will bear rather than the cost to make, etc, plus a fair profit. That 15 cents would have to come out of profits, the Holy Profits of the Church of Mammon which Shall Not Be Touched except by followers deemed Worthy in the Eyes of Mammon or Suitable Representatives that All Should Suck Up To. Profits Above All, Praise Be The Almighty Dollar!

And no, that's not how I really feel. I can't post how I really feel.



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I find it harder to express logic in English than in Code.
Sometimes an example says more than many times as many words.

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I just have not be in the US for very long. Is This "Papa" John considered negatively by the public?
During the last election, the CEO John Schnatter went on the air in a big way to campaign against the affordable care act, ...

I know exactly what my company pays per month for my health insurance, it is right around $280.  And I am single and it is a very inexpensive policy.  This isn't a trivial line item on low-end businesses  And $280 is the entry point.  With a wife and three kids I am sure it's over $1000 which is approaching 80% of minimum wage.  That's quite a hike in employee costs for a pizza business.  Obamacare is not the way to go.  The economics are very simple.  Businesses will reduce full-time workers.  The working poor will not sign up until they need to.  It's going to bankrupt the insurance companies - their newly mandated no-discretion customers are actually discretionary and will not materialize, until they have an expensive affliction.  If we wanted to walk this road we should have gone with full-on socialized care.  This way is going to be squish, just like grape.
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It's equally simple to point out that when healthcare for a growing segment of the population is unpaid-for ER visits and hospital stays that medical costs will continue to skyrocket as they have under those same conditions.

Please don't puke up the same one-sided lines you've been fed as if that's all there is to it and look at the bottom line: middle class America pays most of the bills on every-decreasing wages, lower class and poor America supplies most of the soldiers (go enlist if you need an inside view, don't take my word for it, just BE THERE) and the rich get the lion's share of the wealth.

When a minority control so much wealth and power there should be no question as to who is most responsible for the state of the economy. If a crash will profit those then there will be crash. If a war will pay off better then there will be a war. Every time since 2009 there has been positive news about the economy, 100's more people lose their jobs within weeks. And funny thing, the jobs that most of the ones who get another job pay significantly LESS for the same or more work. If you don't recognize a shake-down then sorry when it happens to you and you blame it on the poor or Obama.

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I find it harder to express logic in English than in Code.
Sometimes an example says more than many times as many words.

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Please don't puke up the same one-sided lines you've been fed

I could say the same to you. 

We will know very soon how well this works.  I think before his last day in office, Obama will be screaming for modifications to the law that he is responsible for in its entirety.
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Hey Joe,

If you read senses, read your posts. You started a political debate and rant and not everyone one this forum will tolerate that. Now you dragged another member into your debate so what's your plan? There is enough of political BS everywhere already and this is the least place I expect BS of this kind!

GoForSmoke,

I suggest you don't fuel Joe's argument. It's useless as you can see, with both sides refusing to accept the other side's arguments. There are plenty of places where this "energy" can be directed. I just asked an innocent question as an outsider and never imagined a political debate to answer my questions. I guess Papa John is not liked by many. I don't buy their pizzas anyway. Now I know buying pizzas could be a political thing so I guess I will stick to my Chinese food.
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Hey Joe,

If you read senses, read your posts. You started a political debate and rant and not everyone one this forum will tolerate that.

I wouldn't get too concerned.  This is actually very polite political debate for US citizens anyway (ones impacted by these policies).  But I do want to point out one thing.  There is no way to make the argument that I started any political debate.  It was political five messages before mine, by GoForSmoke, you, MichaelMeissner, you again, and GoForSmoke again.  I got in rather late on the political debate that GoForSmoke started.

I just asked an innocent question as an outsider and never imagined a political debate to answer my questions.

I understand that, that is why I added some information to this tread about topics that were directly addressed.  Mostly, all I did was provide some sample real-world numbers on the cost of insuring employees, for example.  Why you describe this as a "rant" I don't quite understand.  It's hardly a "debate" either.  The number isn't debatable, though it can be attacked as a single data point  But I bet you will find it's low if anything.  I guess we will see how well the law works out.  I guess it will not work out well and that is surely opinion.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 01:10:23 am by JoeN » Logged

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LOL. Liudr, there is no both sides when it comes to facts. But of course the right wing is and was fact-free and continued to repeat their lies after they were exposed. The GOP supporters never believed the lies were exposed, most stayed willfully ignorant of any such thing.

I don't write this for JoeN. JoeN either can't or won't face facts. When the GOP rodeo clowns tell JoeN to eat their shit, he tells how good it tastes.

In 2001 President Bush give the national surplus to his supporters instead of PAYING OFF DEBT, cut taxes, increase spending multiple times over (it was our duty to get those WMD's that were never there after all, as intelligence actually stated at the time), arrange what taxes there are to benefit more companies leaving the country (after his father's program PAID TAX MONEY to export industry back in the days when AMERICANS MADE THINGS -- I was there Pal, I MADE THINGS for a living not just got fat off finance changes) and do his best to hand Social Security over to Wall Street and mainly Saks-Goldman who can't be trusted...

and no, the GOP can't allow it said that THOSE are the policies that wrecked the economy even though they ACTUALLY DID BEFORE 2009. You clowns damn well know it and that's why Bush and Cheney were not at the 2012 Republican Convention.

Taxes were CUT DEEPLY in 2001 and 2003. If the Voodoo Rhetoric of your crackhead party is correct then there should have been more JOOOOOOOBS than at any time in the previous few decades yet when the GOP BORROW AND SPEND SPREE slowed down in 2007 the economy started to break.
By the end of 2008 the US was LOSING 850,000 JOOOOOOOOBS per month, the stock market was down and the banks were ready to do a 1929-1930 style crash. BTW, 2008 included the REGULAR BUSH per-vote STIMULUS PACKAGE that was hailed as a GOOD THING even though a SMALLER STIMULUS the very next year was TOTALLY COMMUNIST while the previous handouts were verboten topics.

Cutting taxes creates JOOOOOOOOBS? The taxes were cut and cut again and yet again and I have to ask WHERE'S THE JOBS?
Oh? I've been hearing from the GOP since THE CRASH THAT GEORGE ATTEMPTED that it's DOUBLE DOWN ON STUPID TIME, if we have zero taxes on the rich then there will be a surfeit of JOOOOOOOBS.
Naturally the great majority of those jobs will pay just enough to afford a nice cardboard box and plastic tarp on the side of a toxic dump somewhere, but they would be jobs and that's all that counts.

Shit. What's really happened is that the rich reeled in the BUSH handouts either directly or through finance charges even as inflation has squeezed the standard of living and wages both white and blue collar here constantly down. The Privately Owned Federal Reserve prints a ton of money year in and year out and HANDS IT TO THE BANKS (themselves) to loan out at interest. Every so often there's a market shake-up that wipes out a whole load of retirement funds, companies and JOOOOOOOBS, with minor apologies to the losers and rewarding payoffs and bailouts to the CROOKS THAT SET IT UP.

In November 2008 the GOP on camera got up and pledged that "Obama will be seen to fail." and ever since that group of bastards have taken every step possible to tear this country down while filling people with hate and fear. Those HYPOCRITES fillibustered budget after budget and then crowed how there was no budget, only continuing resolutions. It's in the RECORD but who cares about that as long as short memory idiots don't know and aren't told by their single-source "news" channel and hate-talk radio ("its only for entertainment purposes, ho-ho-ho" says fatboy Limbaugh and nutcase Beck but y'all take every word and nuance as fact) and such "luminaries" as that idiot Palin.

Sure, there's billionaires who will crash the economy and you lot will buy the bullshit story that it's Obama's failed policies that caused it. Which is really rich since most every policy he's tried to get out has been blocked through the exploit known as fillibuster which makes the real failure to "fix the economy" (funny how Wall Street is doing GREAT and the top 7% of the country got 28% richer in the last year alone, but f__k the USA) is due to the legislative lock-down of the GOP. What a bunch of HYPOCRITES! And that includes their Christian In Name Only supporters.

If it wasn't for Obama, this nation would be an Oligarchy by now split up between Monsanto and a number of lesser evils but definitely EVIL.

From 2009 to 2013 taxes were lower than previous. Where's the jobs? The taxes were set LOW, it was up to industry and the JOB CREATORS to make them. "Obamacare" hadn't started up yet so please don't try that LAME EXCUSE. Fact is that the ultra-rich are playing for ALL THE MARBLES and that is why things are so f__ked up.

Either learn some math and recent history or quit limiting your information sources to the Propaganda Channel, aka FOX.

The same thing going on here is going on in Europe and elsewhere so I wouldn't laugh too hard no matter where I lived, unless I lived in China where all except the rich have problems of their own.

If you are a Christian then go find the parable about the servants in the house, IIRC told at the Last Supper. If you can't identify the players then shame on you. If you are a Christian and watch context-cut video of Obama without seeking the whole speech actually saying the opposite of what the cut would have then you are a pretend Christian since you disrespect the truth and pay service to lies. Get yourself right and seek the real truth. You won't find it on Fox, you have to check many sources and I don't mean Palin style "I read ALL the papers, want to hear my talking points? It's, it's all about the economy and.... babble, babble, babble.
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OK, now it has become just laughable that I am the one being political here.  I'm not even going to attempt to address all of these points.  All I wanted to do was make a point about the affordable care act:  In the way that it is structured now, it is almost certainly doomed to failure.  It's going to upend the entire healthcare insurance industry while continuing the status quo and running the entire healthcare system in the country through that industry.  I stand by my prior comment that a central system, like the one that was proposed by President Clinton, has the possibility of working and is superior to the one adopted by President Obama.  Frankly, I don't understand how the person who posted the prior post wouldn't be in favor of that system anyway.  I made no comments on any other political matter other that talking about the affordable care act, so with respect to all your other points, you are talking to yourself.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 01:36:48 am by JoeN » Logged

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OK, now it has become just laughable that I am the one being political here.  I'm not even going to attempt to address all of these points.  All I wanted to do was make a point about the affordable care act, in the way it is structured, it is almost certainly doomed to failure.  It's going to upend the entire healthcare insurance industry while trying to run the entire healthcare system in the country through that industry.  I stand by my prior comment that a central system, like the one that was proposed by President Clinton, has the possibility of working and is superior to the one adopted by President Obama.  Frankly, I don't understand how the person who posted the prior post wouldn't be in favor of that system anyway.

The healthcare system has been on a crash course since the 80's.

All attempts to change the course have been blocked by the GOP except this one which was just watered-down compromised into something that can't work.

Obama's signature success was getting ANY CHANGE AT ALL.

Now there's a choice. Fix it or go back to what wasn't working since the 80's.

As one WWII USAAF Ace stated, "You have to do something or you lose. If you do the wrong thing then you can fix that but if you do nothing then you lose.". The GOP has been the do-nothings, the don't change party. I thank GOD that change happened just because it might happen again --away from the old, broken system--.

GOP attitude would have condemned Jesus for healing the poor at no charge. Yet so many of the same bunch expect to be forgiven their own sins and act as if they have been already. There's a parable about that too.
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Joe,

I might not be allowed to vote your president but that doesn't mean I have to know less what is political what is not. When you brought out Obamacare and your opinion on what your president will be doing (in a possible stereotype, who knows, I'm not American, I'm just paying your tax), you really dragged this into a political discussion. Before that, as a fact, a few expressed opinions on health cares and didn't point fingers at a particular policy, which is the outcome of politics.

What do you think? I started it? That's ridiculous. I see these politics-fueled people trying to pour their political views everywhere they find a "post" or "submit" button. It's just enough already. Sorry guys I never intended to steer this topic into politics. Everybody just said too much politics. Let's not do this anymore, that prime s being all of us.
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I just have not be in the US for very long. Is This "Papa" John considered negatively by the public?

He sells Pizza, and its the brand I like, so I guess he is just another corrupt businessman taking my money by giving me what I want...
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